The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[TB12]

They can coach defense, but they better not f***ing complain come May/June that no one but three players is scoring if they're in tight against a team that has a strong goalie like in a series against Vegas or Winnipeg or Florida (we lost all three series' last time we played all three of these teams in large part because their goaltending was outstanding and we really needed additional goals).

Because they put in zero effort as a staff to get anyone else going this year other than maybe Podkolzin and tried nothing different thus far this regular season.

If Knob isn't going to use these players then next time say f***ing something on July 1 Knob. This isn't how a championship caliber team conducts itself.

Did Florida whine and cry about less than perfect players like Reinhart and Montour and OEL? No. They maximized their abilities and properly integrated them into the group and have a Cup to show for it.

Sam Reinhart was -28 in 54 games with the Sabres before going to Florida, did their coaching staff cry about that? No, they found ways to utilize his talents properly.

You are inventing narratives and then getting mad about them. And you keep repeating the same exact thing over and over again. You always do this and it's rather annoying.

Puljujarvi had seasons of 12, 14 and 15 (right before you announced to the board that he was going to ‘outscore RNH and Hyman’ ). Yamamoto had 20. Holloway had put up 9 goals across 89 regular season games. He got the contract offer he deserved.

What a lot of the jilted boyfriends on this board can’t seem to get through their heads is that Dylan Holloway tried to jump his place in the queue. He took a pen out of his pocket and signed a document that was a big fat f*** you to the team that drafted and developed him and gave him his shot in this league. He did it because he couldn’t bear to wait one more season to make that extra million dollars he felt he was entitled to. And he did it in a critical SC window season and under circumstances that he knew full well were critical for the team. Keep cheering for a guy like that I guess …

This. Really well said. A lot of guys on here still cry about their ex gf's from high school I bet.

 

[Duke74]

I think the issue is that this team gambled on a player they werent familiar with (Skinner) instead of running with a player they were not only familiar with but they had an investment in with Holloway.
This team seems to do this a lot...investing in a player and developing the player only to trade that player away just before that player adjusts to the NHL.
Its very poor assest management.

In terms of their Stanley Cup aspirations....a contending team needs a couple of young players in the middle 6...especially if they have the grit and speed like Holloway has.
Its really hard to justify why this team made the decision to sign Skinner at $3M and let Holloway walk.
Both are clear mistakes.

I agree that the whole Skinner thing isn't working out. He reminds me in so many ways of Eberle, a player that we jettisoned years ago. I think he's being misused on the fourth line, which is obviously contributing to his struggles. Seems like there's a disconnect between management and coaching on this one.

Holloway even at 2.3 million is realms better than Skinner at his higher price tag. I'm just trying to understand management's mindset. I have no idea what transpired behind the scenes, but I'm wondering if they worried that they had already overpaid young guys in the past, and quite honestly, what Holloway accepted from St.Louis was an overpay based on historical production. Of course, the gamble worked out for the Blues, leaving us with egg on our faces.

 

[McDNicks17]

I think the issue is that this team gambled on a player they werent familiar with (Skinner) instead of running with a player they were not only familiar with but they had an investment in with Holloway.
This team seems to do this a lot...investing in a player and developing the player only to trade that player away just before that player adjusts to the NHL.
Its very poor assest management.

In terms of their Stanley Cup aspirations....a contending team needs a couple of young players in the middle 6...especially if they have the grit and speed like Holloway has.
Its really hard to justify why this team made the decision to sign Skinner at $3M and let Holloway walk.
Both are clear mistakes.

I don't think the plan was one or the other. Ideally Holloway would have been in Pod's spot at $1.5M or something, but unlike 99% of RFAs, he chose to chase money.

And I'm not even sure if he's going to come out ahead moneywise. It's starting to look like he took terrible advice from a rookie agent who kind of got swept up into being used by a much more seasoned agent. If Holloway drops ~25 goals, he's going to be super underpaid next year at $2.2M. Signing the 1 year/$1.5M or whatever it was that was offered might have been the way to go, but he chose(or was convinced by an awful agent) to not bet on himself when it came to competition in the lineup or taking a one year deal(apparently term was the biggest sticking point between the Oilers and Holloway's camp).

The Oilers likely wouldn't be able to afford him next offseason, but he'd be looking at a big extension somewhere else instead of being locked into a $2.2M deal on a bottom feeder.

 

[KCC]

You people are still going on about these players? Get over it. lol.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

Signing the 1 year/$1.5M or whatever it was that was offered

2X1 million and a 4rth line role, which is insulting

I was angry at Holloway and his agent as well, felt he left over 500k, but that wasn't the case if you believe Holloway. The Blues offered over double the Oilers, which looks like a value contract now, so our evaluation of the player, and the market, was the issue, not Holloway or his agent

You people are still going on about these players? Get over it. lol.

never!

 

[McDNicks17]

2X1 million, which is insulting after he played top six in the finals.

I was angry at Holloway and his agent as well, felt he left over 500k, but that wasn't the case if you believe Holloway. The Blues offered over double the Oilers, which looks like a value contract now, so our evaluation of the player, and the market, was the issue, not Holloway or his agent

Holloway himself mentioned the one year deal and lack of budging on term, so I tend to not believe those other numbers that were thrown out there by the STL beat writer.

 

[DavidHasselhoffsFist]

You people are still going on about these players? Get over it. lol.

 

[guymez]

I don't think the plan was one or the other. Ideally Holloway would have been in Pod's spot at $1.5M or something, but unlike 99% of RFAs, he chose to chase money.

And I'm not even sure if he's going to come out ahead moneywise. It's starting to look like he took terrible advice from a rookie agent who kind of got swept up into being used by a much more seasoned agent. If Holloway drops ~25 goals, he's going to be super underpaid next year at $2.2M. Signing the 1 year/$1.5M or whatever it was that was offered might have been the way to go, but he chose(or was convinced by an awful agent) to not bet on himself when it came to competition in the lineup or taking a one year deal(apparently term was the biggest sticking point between the Oilers and Holloway's camp).

The Oilers likely wouldn't be able to afford him next offseason, but he'd be looking at a big extension somewhere else instead of being locked into a $2.2M deal on a bottom feeder.

Its virtually impossible to know what really happened in the background but there has been a trend of this team investing in players and then letting those players go at the wrong time.
I'm just tired of it.

 

[oobga]

You people are still going on about these players? Get over it. lol.

 

[guymez]

I agree that the whole Skinner thing isn't working out. He reminds me in so many ways of Eberle, a player that we jettisoned years ago. I think he's being misused on the fourth line, which is obviously contributing to his struggles. Seems like there's a disconnect between management and coaching on this one.

Holloway even at 2.3 million is realms better than Skinner at his higher price tag. I'm just trying to understand management's mindset. I have no idea what transpired behind the scenes, but I'm wondering if they worried that they had already overpaid young guys in the past, and quite honestly, what Holloway accepted from St.Louis was an overpay based on historical production. Of course, the gamble worked out for the Blues, leaving us with egg on our faces.

I have to admit...I dont get some of what Knoblauch does at all. Probably a large part of why I'm on here posting instead of coaching somewhere meaningful.

In terms of Skinner though I do get it. I mean who do you replace in the top 6 and does having Skinner there actually make the team better?
I just dont see it.

So I think that you are right on the mark with the bolded. What justification could Management possibly have for signing this player?

 

[oilers4life5]

Skinner was -2 at 10 game mark, -8 by 20 game mark and -10 by now, by far the worst on the team, and the worst GA/60mins on the team.

Nobody should care that somebody wants to come here to "inflate their numbers". the team would want players just like Henrique that play and adept to a role, do it well, and don't complain. Skinner had that chance too. Decided not to run with it and has been shitty since TC. Pretty much what I expected from this guy.

But hey, what does the coaching staff know? They only helped this club get to SCfinal last season and one of the top records in league so far this season. The new coaching staff record since taking over is fantastic.

Does their past or recent successes make them incapable of making mistakes that can be questioned?

 

[MoontoScott]

2X1 million and a 4rth line role, which is insulting

I was angry at Holloway and his agent as well, felt he left over 500k, but that wasn't the case if you believe Holloway. The Blues offered over double the Oilers, which looks like a value contract now, so our evaluation of the player, and the market, was the issue, not Holloway or his agent


never!

I think you've hit on the truth here.

It's not about Holloway per se but rather the Oilers ability to evaluate players-- not just Holloway but more to the point this past off-season------ free agents.

How well has the scouting staff done (over the last decade) in terms of evaluating these guys? There have been far too many "retirement" contracts for my liking. Things haven't gone too well at the draft table either--- when you get past picks out of the top ten. What grade would you give the scouting staff?

 

[oilers4life5]

The logic some of you share that if we are not a professional in the area of conversation that we could not possibly have anything to offer or be correct is completely false.

This is the type of thinking and attitude that leads to a complete lack of innovation and recycling of the same ideas and the we have always done it this way type of mentality.

Pros don’t always know better. A lot of the time sure they will know better than us but we get it right sometimes and they don’t.

I am not taking about the posters who operate on hindsight , I am talking about the ones who in the moment have the correct take that holds up to be true for years. Like the Griffin R trade. My friend and I screamed at the TV during our draft what a terrible move. Held true. We were not pros they were.

My example that I find most interesting is that after watching us suck for awhile at drafting my friend and I started drafting along side the Oilers. Live in the moment we drafted our choice tracked on spreadsheets. All we had was draft guides. We did this over a 10 year period and blew the Oilers drafting out of the water in round one. Wash in round two and three. Oilers did better in four onward. Could be some skill or instinct in our part or could just be some luck too.

My point is dismissing people because only a pro knows best is ignorance. There are some incredible people that are smart and have lots to offer and to ignore that is ridiculous.

 

[Aerchon]

Skinner signing was bad from day one. Head scratcher. Exactly the kind of player you avoid on a SC contending team. No playoff experience. Soft player. Needs to play basically with McDavid/Drai to have success, aka an elite play maker. Does not go to the hard areas of the ice offensively or defensively. Slow. Older. Shoots left.

Obviously dumb.

In fairness despite his minus he is playing better than I thought he would in a bottom 6 role.

Arvidson was a gamble because of injury but generally like the player. However he needs to be getting more PP time/top 6 minutes as well.

In short Skinner signing was just dumb and cost us a young relatively cost controlled Holloway. Who has speed and grit plus the talent of his draft pedigree which the Oilers for some reason gave up on far far too early.

Not sure if it is my imagination but it seems like McDavid Draisaitl are playing together far too much. I'd like to see Skinner Arvid + get more top 6 minutes.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Only 2 points (goals, assist) for Holloway today so far
1 assist for Broberg

 

[McShogun99]

Skinner signing was bad from day one. Head scratcher. Exactly the kind of player you avoid on a SC contending team. No playoff experience. Soft player. Needs to play basically with McDavid/Drai to have success, aka an elite play maker. Does not go to the hard areas of the ice offensively or defensively. Slow. Older. Shoots left.

Obviously dumb.

In fairness despite his minus he is playing better than I thought he would in a bottom 6 role.

Arvidson was a gamble because of injury but generally like the player. However he needs to be getting more PP time/top 6 minutes as well.

In short Skinner signing was just dumb and cost us a young relatively cost controlled Holloway. Who has speed and grit plus the talent of his draft pedigree which the Oilers for some reason gave up on far far too early.

Not sure if it is my imagination but it seems like McDavid Draisaitl are playing together far too much. I'd like to see Skinner Arvid + get more top 6 minutes.

Skinner signing pretty much cost us Broberg and Holloway. The 3 million we used to sign him plus the little bit of extra space we had left would have been more then enough to give them what their asking price was before the offer sheets.

 

[ManByng]

Holloway even at 2.3 million is realms better than Skinner at his higher price tag. I'm just trying to understand management's mindset. I have no idea what transpired behind the scenes, but I'm wondering if they worried that they had already overpaid young guys in the past, and quite honestly, what Holloway accepted from St.Louis was an overpay based on historical production. Of course, the gamble worked out for the Blues, leaving us with egg on our faces.

The point of these contracts is to make the team giving them out stronger, yes, but at the same time you hope you can make the team you took the players from weaker, but in the Oilers case that hasn’t worked out and they’re still one of the top teams in the league! Yes it sucks that Holloway is showing his talent now for the Blues and not the Oilers but at the time I could see why the Oilers couldn’t justify giving Dylan the money he wanted. I don’t believe this is egg on the Oilers faces at all !

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

The point of these contracts is to make the team giving them out stronger, yes, but at the same time you hope you can make the team you took the players from weaker, but in the Oilers case that hasn’t worked out and they’re still one of the top teams in the league! Yes it sucks that Holloway is showing his talent now for the Blues and not the Oilers but at the time I could see why the Oilers couldn’t justify giving Dylan the money he wanted. I don’t believe this is egg on the Oilers faces at all !

Oh my god stop. Just because the team with the two best players in the NHL is doing well without two players doesn't mean it wasn't a complete joke of a decision. You're allowed to have multiple good players on a team and the Oilers let two young impact players go for a couple non-impact washed up veterans.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The Broberg offersheet always made sense not to match cause the team couldn’t afford it or the risk.

Holloway was always the one that made sense to match. And the fact that we let him go, he is doing very well and his replacement is the worst player on our roster is a problem.

Not much we can do now but this org is addicted to holding onto bad prospects till they bust and let good ones go super early.

 

[McFlash97]

Media should question Bowman about Holloway when He shows his face next time. Every single fan and Media personnel locked Holloway in for a no Brainer match. This weasel had other ideas. Everyone could see the burgeoning talent and chemistry with Drai, except this guy. Dumb gm decisions need to be called out directly.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Media should question Bowman about Holloway when He shows his face next time. Every single fan and Media personnel locked Holloway in for a no Brainer match. This weasel had other ideas. Everyone could see the burgeoning talent and chemistry with Drai, except this guy. Dumb gm decisions need to be called out directly.

So you think the right thing to do is have some random media guy tell Stan,,,'You've been a bad boy Stanley'?

 

[Stoneman89]

The logic some of you share that if we are not a professional in the area of conversation that we could not possibly have anything to offer or be correct is completely false.

This is the type of thinking and attitude that leads to a complete lack of innovation and recycling of the same ideas and the we have always done it this way type of mentality.

Pros don’t always know better. A lot of the time sure they will know better than us but we get it right sometimes and they don’t.

I am not taking about the posters who operate on hindsight , I am talking about the ones who in the moment have the correct take that holds up to be true for years. Like the Griffin R trade. My friend and I screamed at the TV during our draft what a terrible move. Held true. We were not pros they were.

My example that I find most interesting is that after watching us suck for awhile at drafting my friend and I started drafting along side the Oilers. Live in the moment we drafted our choice tracked on spreadsheets. All we had was draft guides. We did this over a 10 year period and blew the Oilers drafting out of the water in round one. Wash in round two and three. Oilers did better in four onward. Could be some skill or instinct in our part or could just be some luck too.

My point is dismissing people because only a pro knows best is ignorance. There are some incredible people that are smart and have lots to offer and to ignore that is ridiculous.

Oilers scouting and management always reminded me of the guy who always thought he was the smartest one in the room and made mind blowing statements or decisions to try to back that up.

 

[Stoneman89]

Only 2 points (goals, assist) for Holloway today so far
1 assist for Broberg

Good to see they're slowing down.

On another note that will cheer up a bit, it looks like removing Ryan McLeod is looking like a decent move. After a quick start, he's fumbled his way back to the mean.

 

[oilers4life5]

Oilers scouting and management always reminded me of the guy who always thought he was the smartest one in the room and made mind blowing statements or decisions to try to back that up.

My friend and I were actually shocked. We thought pro scouts would destroy us as we just read a couple draft guides each year from scouts. We consolidated the rankings from multiple guides and then came up with a list.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Oilers scouting and management always reminded me of the guy who always thought he was the smartest one in the room and made mind blowing statements or decisions to try to back that up.

My friend and I were actually shocked. We thought pro scouts would destroy us as we just read a couple draft guides each year from scouts. We consolidated the rankings from multiple guides and then came up with a list.

The funniest part is that there actually was a recent case where the Oilers were the smartest guys in the room. Paul Coffey wanted us to take Wyatt Johnston in 2021 (coached him with the Toronto Marlboros in AAA) which would've been an even better choice than what fans wanted (Wallstedt). Instead, Tyler Wright and Ken Holland had other ideas and took Xavier Bourgault. Looking at what Coffey did with our defense these past two years, maybe we should've just let him run the team.