The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[McDNicks17]

He has better numbers against elite comp than Parayko does lololol, In fact he does better than every Blues top 4 dman option except Fowler who has only played 9 games for the Blues and has by all accounts been genuinely playing great for them. Just stop with the anti Broberg and anti Holloway agenda, it's getting old and honestly quite laughable at this point. To the point where Blues fans literally come onto this thread to link your posts and meme about them on their own boards.

Take a second and break those numbers down. Broberg's better numbers are basically being on the ice for 1 DFF more vs. elite comp every 15 games haha.

I'll have to check that out. That sounds hilarious. We've got people in here swooning over his 14 minutes of 5v5 against the worst team in the league. I can only imagine what they're saying.

edit: That was disappointing. The only one I could find was about me talking about PDO. Not sure that's much of a meme since Broberg's PDO has been crashing back down to earth since then.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Take a second and break those numbers down. Broberg's better numbers are basically being on the ice for 1 DFF more vs. elite comp every 15 games haha.

I'll have to check that out. That sounds hilarious. We've got people in here swooning over his 14 minutes of 5v5 against the worst team in the league. I can only imagine what they're saying.

edit: That was disappointing. The only one I could find was about me talking about PDO. Not sure that's much of a meme since Broberg's PDO has been crashing back down to earth since then.

One extra dangerous scoring chance for or against per game might not be the difference between McDavid and Skinner, but it's not nothing either. In any case even if we ignore the 2 or 3% he has over a Parayko or Suter, for a supposedly sheltered player who wilts against elites, you'd expect him to do significantly worse than other Blues top 4 dmen, which is certainly not the case.

 

[Game 8]

I don't think this was the reason and I sure hope not. Its a fan view, its not a management view. JJ himself is an agent, the last thing he would be thinking is "f*** a player for wanting to be paid or valued" JJ spelled it out. The org slept on how good these players could be. They perhaps thought they were marginal players and not bonafide good players. Strange that they would. Holloway particularly was good when up last year and was certainly good in Bakersfield. Its like they weren't even paying attention. Holloway scored 21G up and down and including playoffs for the org last season in 81GP as a 22yr old. How does a pro org not even notice?

That's been the issue with this org for decades as you know. The other issue is they play checkers when they should be playing chess. If you're a GM scouting and analytics budgets are endless providing ownership agrees. For some reason the Oilers are always in the bottom five. Regarding the chess department if you start a rebuild would you pick dmen and goalies before forwards all things being equal, should dmen get an extra checkmark because of the position they play up to a certain point in the rebuild. Would you sign an older UFA with no upside for similar money vs a kid that basically has the same stats but room to grow. Those small edges are the difference between a winner and a loser, also the reason I think 95% of GM's in every sport don't deserve their positions.

 

[Stoneman89]

That's been the issue with this org for decades as you know. The other issue is they play checkers when they should be playing chess. If you're a GM scouting and analytics budgets are endless providing ownership agrees. For some reason the Oilers are always in the bottom five. Regarding the chess department if you start a rebuild would you pick dmen and goalies before forwards all things being equal, should dmen get an extra checkmark because of the position they play up to a certain point in the rebuild. Would you sign an older UFA with no upside for similar money vs a kid that basically has the same stats but room to grow. Those small edges are the difference between a winner and a loser, also the reason I think 95% of GM's in every sport don't deserve their positions.

That's easy to point out in a vacuum. For a an average team or one below average, that's probably an easy decision - go with the kid and let him learn and grow. But for a legit SC contender with a limited window, veteran experience is highly valued and you have to make a decision that that will pay off during the tense moment of SC playoff games and moments. Obviously in hindsight, the Jeff Skinner decision over signing Holloway has been a disaster, but it's been made and we have to move on. Now, ironically, they likely need to try to move Skinner at some point in order to find a quality replacement for him.

 

[TheNumber4]

I never had a problem with moving on from McLeod and I still don't. Our PK is trending towards it's elite status from last years playoff run, and neither player ripping it up offensively. I'm not sure McLeod ever had even one hit in his entire career here, and his game is a shining example of perimeter play. Not to mention, he doesn't have the luxury anymore of getting some premium time with a player like Drai to pad his stats a bit.

Funny enough 2 years ago, McLeod had a higher hits per game than Henrique has this year.

Mcleod did his job and won his possession battle while he was here. Can’t say the same for Henrique at this point. The production could have been better from Mcleod, but we’re left saying the same thing about Henrique right now.

Ultimately I think so far it’s been mostly a lateral move, comparing the players straight across. But then again Mcleod came a $1M cheaper, but we also got Savoie out the deal so can’t really complain about the swap overall.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Holloway continues...another great read intercepting the pass and great headman on the puck to Brayden. He created this opportunity again tonight.
St. Louis has got themselves a winner.

 

[guymez]

Holloway continues...another great read intercepting the pass and great headman on the puck to Brayden. He created this opportunity again tonight.
St. Louis has got themselves a winner.

Great call on their part.
Big time fail on the part of Oilers Management.
This is their player...they drafted him and developed him and they STILL believed that Holloway wasnt worth taking that risk on.
Epic fail.

 

[Shanahanigans]

Scoring chances created in the first half of the cup finals. For the Oilers, after the big 3, number 4 was Holloway. In the finals vs the big and physical panthers. The signs were there that this was coming.

 

[McFlash97]

JJ himself acknowledged the org blew it on the prospects and offersheets. That they had not properly managed the players, given them enough time, and that it was likely given that the players would be looking elsewhere to get the roles they want in the NHL. The team acknowledged they didn't have proper prospect management team or assessment and they basically slept on it. We're not talking just about some prospects but two players that were considered blue chip and that were going to be NHL players, and good NHL players.

In the case of either its not just that. Its that the upside is that they could both be star NHL players. The org f***ed this up so monumentally that any other time than the McD or Drai era and there would be inquisition from fans on how the org allowed this to happen.

I mean this is HFboards and its the worst bleed off of top Oilers talent prospects I remember. A related concern is how little the org is even benefitting from ELC contracts and time frame where they could be playing their prospects cheap in the lineup and growing their games (as good orgs should) vs just parking them in bakersfield while they sign handfuls of Derek Ryans. Its kind of deplorable.

This organization is a living joke. The whole premise to not match Holloway probably was out of spite. I wouldn't put that beyond these narcissistic pricks in management. They were pissed Holloway signed an offer sheet and were willing to lose an asset to prove a point. Fx the Oilers management. They don't care about the average fan, the future Outlook or the numbers. It's about ego. There's a reason they signed an enabler when no one in the NHL even batted an eye. That should tell you everything you need to know.

 

[oobga]

Scoring chances created in the first half of the cup finals. For the Oilers, after the big 3, number 4 was Holloway. In the finals vs the big and physical panthers. The signs were there that this was coming.
View attachment 955906

Frustrating chart to look at considering the result was a 1-3 series

 

[McShogun99]

This organization is a living joke. The whole premise to not match Holloway probably was out of spite. I wouldn't put that beyond these narcissistic pricks in management. They were pissed Holloway signed an offer sheet and were willing to lose an asset to prove a point. Fx the Oilers management. They don't care about the average fan, the future Outlook or the numbers. It's about ego. There's a reason they signed an enabler when no one in the NHL even batted an eye. That should tell you everything you need to know.

I could understand letting Broberg go for 4.6 and still getting a 2nd. I still don't understand letting Holloway go for 2.4 while getting a 3rd.

If they signed him for a 1 year 1.1 deal and he scored 25 goals with the team then they're looking at signing him for 3-4 million next season or some other team will sign him for that.

I still think they should have swallowed their pride and matched both, LTIR Kane and figure the cap out when or if Kane comes back and just accept a mediocre deadline this year. If they didn't work out you can buy them out for 1/3 of their deal or trade them in August.

 

[Stoneman89]

I could understand letting Broberg go for 4.6 and still getting a 2nd. I still don't understand letting Holloway go for 2.4 while getting a 3rd.

If they signed him for a 1 year 1.1 deal and he scored 25 goals with the team then they're looking at signing him for 3-4 million next season or some other team will sign him for that.

I still think they should have swallowed their pride and matched both, LTIR Kane and figure the cap out when or if Kane comes back and just accept a mediocre deadline this year. If they didn't work out you can buy them out for 1/3 of their deal or trade them in August.

At the risk of beating this further to death, I think a bunch of this is on Holloway though. His history wasn't that great, with a load of injuries and inconsistent play in the bigs. He had a few good playoff games, no doubt, but we've had other guys that had some decent playoffs and then shit the bed. His resume wasn't consistent with a big raise. I really believe that if he really wanted play here and have a chance at cup glory, he would have taken a one year deal and proven himself, like he is this year (for the whole year), and I have no doubt the Oilers would have found a way to open up the cash register for him next year. Broberg's offer was off the charts though.

The bolded is the tough one. The team had already committed to Skinner and Arvidsson by the time Bowman got here, so there was absolutely nothing left for cap room. He came in with both hands tied behind his back.

 

[MessierII]

At the risk of beating this further to death, I think a bunch of this is on Holloway though. His history wasn't that great, with a load of injuries and inconsistent play in the bigs. He had a few good playoff games, no doubt, but we've had other guys that had some decent playoffs and then shit the bed. His resume wasn't consistent with a big raise. I really believe that if he really wanted play here and have a chance at cup glory, he would have taken a one year deal and proven himself, like he is this year (for the whole year), and I have no doubt the Oilers would have found a way to open up the cash register for him next year. Broberg's offer was off the charts though.

The bolded is the tough one. The team had already committed to Skinner and Arvidsson by the time Bowman got here, so there was absolutely nothing left for cap room. He came in with both hands tied behind his back.

Yep ultimately the players have to sign the deals.

 

[McShogun99]

At the risk of beating this further to death, I think a bunch of this is on Holloway though. His history wasn't that great, with a load of injuries and inconsistent play in the bigs. He had a few good playoff games, no doubt, but we've had other guys that had some decent playoffs and then shit the bed. His resume wasn't consistent with a big raise. I really believe that if he really wanted play here and have a chance at cup glory, he would have taken a one year deal and proven himself, like he is this year (for the whole year), and I have no doubt the Oilers would have found a way to open up the cash register for him next year. Broberg's offer was off the charts though.

The bolded is the tough one. The team had already committed to Skinner and Arvidsson by the time Bowman got here, so there was absolutely nothing left for cap room. He came in with both hands tied behind his back.

Hopefully a lesson learned for management not to try and "squeeze" high profile RFA's and get them signed before you go on a July 1st spending spree. Especially the ones that ask to get traded and refuse to negotiate a contract extension.

 

[oobga]

Hopefully a lesson learned for management not to try and "squeeze" high profile RFA's and get them signed before you go on a July 1st spending spree. Especially the ones that ask to get traded and refuse to negotiate a contract extension.

Definitely was a kid in a candy store situation with JJ being left with a wad of cap space July 1st. Org needed to be a little wiser. The guy that just left also was always super fast to blow his wad July 1st too of course.

JJ wasn't even on the same page with Knob tossing that money too. Skinner's entire career is cheating for rush offense and being abysmal in his own end. Knob clearly wants no part of it against any quality comp.

 

[McDNicks17]

Definitely was a kid in a candy store situation with JJ being left with a wad of cap space July 1st. Org needed to be a little wiser. The guy that just left also was always super fast to blow his wad July 1st too of course.

JJ wasn't even on the same page with Knob tossing that money too. Skinner's entire career is cheating for rush offense and being abysmal in his own end. Knob clearly wants no part of it against any quality comp.

So true. I've never understood the "we need a pure scorer for McDrai" stuff. Both guys have pretty much always excelled with big guys that get them the puck and go to the net.

A guy like Holloway would have been ten times the better fit.

 

[TKB21]

Losing Holloway sucks, I wanted them to let Broberg go and sign Holloway. He has completely exploded this year and looks like the guy we had hoped he would. Broberg on the other hand has 2 points in his last 12 games, I have no issues letting that him go, he had a hot start but don’t be surprised if he doesn’t do much for the rest of the season.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

McLeod regressing to the mean. 0 goals in last 21 games.

 

[AM]

So true. I've never understood the "we need a pure scorer for McDrai" stuff. Both guys have pretty much always excelled with big guys that get them the puck and go to the net.

A guy like Holloway would have been ten times the better fit.

Until he gets slashed on the wrist.

 

[McFlash97]

At the risk of beating this further to death, I think a bunch of this is on Holloway though. His history wasn't that great, with a load of injuries and inconsistent play in the bigs. He had a few good playoff games, no doubt, but we've had other guys that had some decent playoffs and then shit the bed. His resume wasn't consistent with a big raise. I really believe that if he really wanted play here and have a chance at cup glory, he would have taken a one year deal and proven himself, like he is this year (for the whole year), and I have no doubt the Oilers would have found a way to open up the cash register for him next year. Broberg's offer was off the charts though.

The bolded is the tough one. The team had already committed to Skinner and Arvidsson by the time Bowman got here, so there was absolutely nothing left for cap room. He came in with both hands tied behind his back.

Stop making excuses and putting this on a young emerging player who signed for a million more. This is % on Bowman and Jackson. They could easily have matched Holloway and easily worked around the cap. Absolutely nothing to do with Holloway. 0.

Arvidsson nor Skinner at this point isn't even half the talent Holloway is. Speed, size, youth and physicality. These guys in management get paid millions to make these calls. In real life these guys would be fired on the spot.

 

[McShogun99]

McLeod regressing to the mean. 0 goals in last 21 games.

Trading McLeod for Savoie is going to look like highway robbery in a few years. You make that trade 100% of the time. I still have no idea what Buffalo was thinking. We should trade them a few more experienced players for prospects before Adam’s gets fired.

 

[JordanGalhanth]

Trading McLeod for Savoie is going to look like highway robbery in a few years. You make that trade 100% of the time. I still have no idea what Buffalo was thinking. We should trade them a few more experienced players for prospects before Adam’s gets fired.

Jeff Skinner and Kemp for Cozens straight up

 

[Mr Positive]

Trading McLeod for Savoie is going to look like highway robbery in a few years. You make that trade 100% of the time. I still have no idea what Buffalo was thinking. We should trade them a few more experienced players for prospects before Adam’s gets fired.

They've been bad for so long that they had a huge logjam of high first rounders. Savoie probably had not much of a chance of standing out there

 

[Zaddy]

If I wasn't so jaded I'd consider it absolutely wild that these guys who are paid big bucks to evaluate hockey players can't even see what they have in front of them, and then they go out to sign two veteran guys who haven't moved the needle at all here.

I think the logical thing would've been to let Broberg go, not signing Skinner in the first place and keeping Holloway. I think the Arvidsson signing was a good bet to make even if it hasn't really worked out so far but Skinner? How does he fit into this group?

 

[McShogun99]

If I wasn't so jaded I'd consider it absolutely wild that these guys who are paid big bucks to evaluate hockey players can't even see what they have in front of them, and then they go out to sign two veteran guys who haven't moved the needle at all here.

I think the logical thing would've been to let Broberg go, not signing Skinner in the first place and keeping Holloway. I think the Arvidsson signing was a good bet to make even if it hasn't really worked out so far but Skinner? How does he fit into this group?

I really hope both those guys have a good playoff. That's really the only way they'll bring value to the team.