The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[oobga]

It's not that they should, but there seems to be a narrative that he's playing a big role for the Blues and excelling. In reality he's getting more sheltered minutes than the Oilers bottom pairing defensemen are because he's getting slaughtered by elite comp.

That's not really the type of player the Oilers are missing this year.

Patiently waiting for 1.078 PDO lad to finally fall back. It is a drop from his playoffs 1.155 PDO to be fair.

revisit in a couple months

 

[McDNicks17]

So many posters have outsized expectations for this player and young defenseman broadly. Have to live with ups and downs that come with the position. We've lived through it with Bouchard. It's a damn hard position. Broberg playing a consistent 18-20 minutes with support specialty teams is a win. The fact that he's contributing counting points early is a bonus.

An NHL coach will become an AHL coach quickly if they can't figure out how to maximize their roster deployment to leverage strength and mitigate weakness. Even more ridiculous if they play their young players in situations that require veteran experience and certainty. There's no shortage of information available to NHL coaches that extend beyond public sites.

The Oilers could use a better second unit PK option and frankly more stability with its second pair RD. Whether the latter was plugged by Broberg, Ceci or Kulak moved to 2RD in fantasyland stuff. It highly unlikely the Oilers off-season Plan A pre-August 12 was to have Broberg play behind a platoon of journeymen #7-8 d-men. The reactive Plan B is struggling with the team even trying to plug the middle pair issue with Darnell Nurse. Unfortunately the advance analytic promise said about Emberson hasn't translated into reality.

And that's fine for a team that has the luxury of sheltering a $4.6M defenseman.

Lamenting the loss of a guy who is getting slaughtered by elite comp to play against elite comp on the Oilers second pair just doesn't check out though.

 

[McFlash97]

How does arvidsson stop our power play from scoring?

I'm still pretty firmly in wait and see territory on Broberg for a few reasons:

1) He's playing butter soft minutes behind Parayko. He's only playing 21% of his ice time against elite comp and has been annihilated while playing it(30.6% DFF)
2) He's getting beat up defensively, but getting saved by a .983 onSV%. People are in for a rude surprise if they think his goals against numbers are going to stay down
3) He's shooting almost five times his career SH%
4) He has a point on every single goal the Blues have scored with him on the ice. That luck with secondary assists isn't going to keep up


The offense is going to dip as the sample size grows. It'll be interesting to see if it stays at a level that's worth the trade off of not being able to trust him defensively.

Why do you continue to move goalposts with Broberg ? Just admit it. It was terrible asset management by this organization. You can't possibly defend the Oilers move by going into deep rooted analytics to defend the move. Broberg is levels beyond the pylons that were brought in to replace him. Just say it.

 

[McDNicks17]

Why do you continue to move goalposts with Broberg ? Just admit it. It was terrible asset management by this organization. You can't possibly defend the Oilers move by going into deep rooted analytics to defend the move. Broberg is levels beyond the pylons that were brought in to replace him. Just say it.

"Deep rooted analytics" haha. You can't get much more basic than chance metrics and shooting percentage.

Broberg might be better, but he also costs more than twice as much as Emberson, Dermott and Stecher combined. You can't just snap your fingers and make the salary cap go away.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

And that's fine for a team that has the luxury of sheltering a $4.6M defenseman.

Lamenting the loss of a guy who is getting slaughtered by elite comp to play against elite comp on the Oilers second pair just doesn't check out though.

Other view it as investing in an age 23 defenseman with upward mobility. Paying pennies on the dollar with minimal risk to walk away. Perspective is everything. Expectations vary wildly.

Oilers passivity with a known challenging relationship enabled the market to step in and value the player's potential differently. Unfortunately their Plan A off season got derailed with old model thinking. Plan B reactive contingency looks wobbly. The promised advance analytics solution of Emberson at 2RD has gone up in smoke quickly. Now we watch Nurse try to fill a hole on his off shooting side for the first time in his career (maybe hockey life). Choices have consequences. Lots of lament to go around with a blueline clearly deficient to driving Cup Final success.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

And that's fine for a team that has the luxury of sheltering a $4.6M defenseman.

Lamenting the loss of a guy who is getting slaughtered by elite comp to play against elite comp on the Oilers second pair just doesn't check out though.

So the better plan is to have three #7's in and out of the line-up and Nurse playing the right side?
at least Broberg has the chance to get better, and will get ALOT better...Stetcher, Dermott are what they are...Emberson hopefully pans out but he's further away than Broberg

 

[McDNicks17]

So the better plan is to have three #7's in and out of the line-up and Nurse playing the right side?
at least Broberg has the chance to get better, and will get ALOT better...Stetcher, Dermott are what they are...Emberson hopefully pans out but he's further away than Broberg

You say that like you simply just insert Broberg into the lineup and the $4.6M price tag doesn't change the rest of the roster.

 

[Mr Positive]

This is a good idea for a thread.

I was and still am a believer in Broberg and this was a big issue on these boards so I don't see why we shouldn't talk about it. But, I don't feel the need to bring it up in other threads.

There is a positive aspect to the situation in that it shows that our drafting and development is fine. We didn't squander the pick. We just squandered the asset through incompetence of a different kind.

It's really bad management to suffer through the rough early years of a player and lose them just as they are hitting their stride. Broberg hasn't even come close to his ceiling yet. Everyone in the organization raved about him.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

You say that like you simply just insert Broberg into the lineup and the $4.6M price tag doesn't change the rest of the roster.

and what has that roster shown so far? very early days but the forwards aren't scoring and the defense is a rotating mess of scotch tape and band-aid fixes

I said it in the summer and I'll say it again...not having a set top-4 was a recipe for disaster and anointing a 30-game Emberson a top 4 defenceman was foolish

 

[Stoneman89]

On the fence about both of them. IMO, it's still too early to tell if we actually lost something that could have turned out really good, or a good decision to just move on. However, if Arvidsson is considered Holloway's replacement and Dermott is Broberg's replacement, then I've got a bit of puke in my mouth.

Unfortunately, both of them casualties of our previous managments prior decisions coming to roost.

 

[McDNicks17]

and what has that roster shown so far? very early days but the forwards aren't scoring and the defense is a rotating mess of scotch tape and band-aid fixes

I said it in the summer and I'll say it again...not having a set top-4 was a recipe for disaster and anointing a 30-game Emberson a top 4 defenceman was foolish

I guess you just tell Drai "too bad, play with these AHL wingers, but please sign this contract" and everything is peachy.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I guess you just tell Drai "too bad, play with these AHL wingers, but please sign this contract" and everything is peachy.

I mean, we made it to the Final with a supposed "worse" set of wingers...

 

[MoontoScott]

On the fence about both of them. IMO, it's still too early to tell if we actually lost something that could have turned out really good, or a good decision to just move on. However, if Arvidsson is considered Holloway's replacement and Dermott is Broberg's replacement, then I've got a bit of puke in my mouth.

Unfortunately, both of them casualties of our previous managments prior decisions coming to roost.

So far, Holloway has 2 points in 7 games for the Blues. On track for 23 point season.

 

[SwedishFire]

Well since it's still somewhat fresh and it's obviously pissed off a lot of people here's a thread to keep this discussion in so that it doesn't spill into other threads.

My take is that Broberg can f*** right off and keep on f***ing off. He never had the stones to come in here and earn a job in camp based on his play and then demanded a trade. He wasn't the player that he was in the playoffs for us at any point prior to that and obviously needed that extra time in Bako whether he wants to admit it or not. Food for him that he's off to a good start. We'll see how he does once other teams start to get the book on him and playing him physical consistently.

For Holloway he likely thought that he was a big enough piece that we'd match him and well that didn't exactly work out for him. I liked the player but it is what it is.

SOur grapes.
Oilers kept Broberg down to grow his game. They forgot to sign him. Idiots. It isnt Brobergs fault. Plain Holland and Jackson. Assmove. Broberg was far more important than any other forward.

They should had resign him and shot Nurse anywhere in the league.

 

[McDNicks17]

I mean, we made it to the Final with a supposed "worse" set of wingers...

And they couldn't score a goal to save their lives. Makes sense to try to improve there and keep your superstar happy.

They also made it to the Final with basically the same D core that they have now unless you think Cody Ceci is worth about 50 points in the standings.

 

[Jumptheshark]

going to be a long season

 

[Jumptheshark]

SOur grapes.
Oilers kept Broberg down to grow his game. They forgot to sign him. Idiots. It isnt Brobergs fault. Plain Holland and Jackson. Assmove. Broberg was far more important than any other forward.

They should had resign him and shot Nurse anywhere in the league.

and factor in that Broberg wanted out for whatever reason. It was his agent that organized the offer sheet with the blues. The agent went to the blues. Oilers should have realized there was massive trouble there. I think it was last November or December that the agent went public that the oilers had given him permission to seek a trade when they didn't?

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5115263/2023/12/05/oilers-philip-broberg-trade-granted/

No one should have been shocked by what the agent did

 

[McFlash97]

"Deep rooted analytics" haha. You can't get much more basic than chance metrics and shooting percentage.

Broberg might be better, but he also costs more than twice as much as Emberson, Dermott and Stecher combined. You can't just snap your fingers and make the salary cap go away.

I understand the cap implications. However you can't defend the organization there too. Incompetence leads to more incompetence. From Holland/Jackson to Bowman.

So far, Holloway has 2 points in 7 games for the Blues. On track for 23 point season.

Lol, how much does Arvidsson have playing with Leon Fn Draisaitl

 

[Stoneman89]

And they couldn't score a goal to save their lives. Makes sense to try to improve there and keep your superstar happy.

They also made it to the Final with basically the same D core that they have now unless you think Cody Ceci is worth about 50 points in the standings.

And Draisaitl's new wingers are doing so well with him, they are now playing on different lines from his. From a short veiwing of the current crop of newcomers, to this point, I have to say that Ceci, Broberg and Desharneis were a huge cut above Dermott, Emberson and Stetcher. As the season goes on, we'll see.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

And they couldn't score a goal to save their lives. Makes sense to try to improve there and keep your superstar happy.

They also made it to the Final with basically the same D core that they have now unless you think Cody Ceci is worth about 50 points in the standings.

I think Cody Ceci is far from perfect but light years better than the 3 rotating cast of defenders we have now but I digress

Broberg would be leading the team in points by a d man if he was on this team, and bad news is he'll only get better the more he plays

 

[Stoneman89]

So far, Holloway has 2 points in 7 games for the Blues. On track for 23 point season.

Astronomical compared to Arvidsson's current zero point pace. And all for the bargain price of only 4 million per season for 2 years.

 

[McDNicks17]

I think Cody Ceci is far from perfect but light years better than the 3 rotating cast of defenders we have now but I digress

Broberg would be leading the team in points by a d man if he was on this team, and bad news is he'll only get better the more he plays

That goes back to my original post in here. Everything in his numbers right now points to him getting significantly worse if you play him more. He's been getting murdered in the rare minutes he sees elite comp.

 

[Jumptheshark]

The oilers have no one but themselves to blame for how things turned out

 

[Mr Positive]

That goes back to my original post in here. Everything in his numbers right now points to him getting significantly worse if you play him more. He's been getting murdered in the rare minutes he sees elite comp.

That's pretty normal progression for a young Dman though. Broberg will see better competition

 

[McFlash97]

That goes back to my original post in here. Everything in his numbers right now points to him getting significantly worse if you play him more. He's been getting murdered in the rare minutes he sees elite comp.

lol do you mind parlaying Dermott, Emberson and Stechers analytics too. Broberg instantly makes this team better. he cost only a million and a half more than these 3 clowns.