Blue Jays Discussion: The long, slow march of a winter off-season

[Eyedea]

We should probably mention their international signings too.

Orelvis Martinez
Eric Pardinho
Alejandro Kirk
Gabriel Moreno
Otto Lopez
Miguel Hiraldo
Leonardo Jimenez
Rikelvin De Castro

 

[Canada4Gold]

We should probably mention their international signings too.

Orelvis Martinez
Eric Pardinho
Alejandro Kirk
Gabriel Moreno
Otto Lopez
Miguel Hiraldo
Leonardo Jimenez
Rikelvin De Castro

A+ especially given the bolded were the restricted year after we signed Vlad.

 

[phillipmike]

I mean...they've drafted decently, or at least shown the ability to mine the draft for talent at an above average clip. I'd say they deserve about a C for the guys they've acquired that were at or near major league ready. Some pretty odd directions they've taken.

Just to summarize:
A+: drafting Bo, drafting Cavan
A: drafting Pearson,
A-: drafting Groshans\Kloffenstein
B+: Signing Sogard,
B: Teoscar trade, Grichuk trade, Kay\SWR for Stroman
B-: Signing Gurriel Jr., McGuire trade, Thornton trade, signing Hudson, Galvis signing,
C: (essentially everything not listed elsewhere...with C representing a neutral move)
D: McKinney\Drury for Happ, Grichuk contract, Fisher for Sanchez\Bagini+, Donaldson trade, TJ Zeuch draft, Solarte trade
F: Signing Morales

Acquisition costs of what we gave up plays a lot into the grade for me too.

Pearson is an A+ for me. Stroman trade might be a B+ for me. Gurriel, McGuire, and Thornton is a B.

Happ and Donaldson trades get Fs for me. Losing Urshela is an F. I understand the Osuna trade but without a good return on Giles, that might be an F too. Mayb

Morales gets a D, i get that he didnt work out but we understand why we made the signing and depending who you believe, we got Gurriel too. Also the Jays got IFA money for Morales (and Dwight Smith) who they used to sign; Yosver Zulueta, Jiorgeny Casimiri and Sem Robberse.

Blue Jays use international bonus pool money to sign three pitchers - Sportsnet.ca

All three players Badler speaks well of.

Other signings include Kirk, Moreno, Pardinho, Martinez, Hiraldo... All A's for me.

Got a few other pluses in the Estrada and Happ signings which help get us to the 2016 playoffs. Claims or acquisitions of Leone, Biagini, Maile,

Other smaller deals of Smith for Taylor and Pannone. Pearce for Espinal. Phelps for Hatch. Woodman for Diaz.

FO can make something from nothing but taking something and turning it into nothing like the JD, Osuna, and Happ trades will always be a black eye for them. Definitely more good than bad but the bad really hurt.

 

[phillipmike]

The 10 biggest Deadline deals of the decade

1. July 30, 2015: LHP David Price goes from the Tigers to the Blue Jays for LHP Daniel Norris, LHP Jairo Labourt and LHP Matthew Boyd
It is difficult to overstate how much everyone wanted Price at the 2015 Deadline, and that the Blue Jays, a long-suffering team that hadn’t made the playoffs in more than 20 years, went out and did it, was tremendously exciting. They also traded for Troy Tulowitzki, and the results were immediate and overwhelming; seven games out of first at the time of the trade, they went 41-18 the rest of the season and won the American League East.

They ultimately bowed out in the ALCS against the Royals, partly because, if you’ll remember, they were using Price out of the bullpen. But this remains the ultimate “all-chips-in” trade. Also look at the Minor Leaguer involved whom you didn’t even think about at the time: Matthew Boyd!

6. July 27, 2011: Cardinals trade OF Colby Rasmus, RHP P.J. Walters, RHP Trever Miller and LHP Brian Tallet in a three-team deal and receive LHP Marc Rzepczynski, RHP Octavio Dotel and RHP Edwin Jackson
This was universally considered a horrific trade for the Cardinals at the time; ESPN’s Keith Law saw it as manager Tony La Russa forcing out a valuable young player he disliked. He wasn’t necessarily wrong, but boy did it turn out perfect for the Cardinals. Jackson was a rotation mainstay, and Rzepczynski and Dotel immediately shored up a faulty bullpen that the Cardinals would, somehow, ride all the way to a World Series victory in La Russa’s final game as manager. And Rasmus ended up frustrating a lot more managers than just La Russa.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[dredeye]

Acquisition costs of what we gave up plays a lot into the grade for me too.

Pearson is an A+ for me. Stroman trade might be a B+ for me. Gurriel, McGuire, and Thornton is a B.

Happ and Donaldson trades get Fs for me. Losing Urshela is an F. I understand the Osuna trade but without a good return on Giles, that might be an F too. Mayb

Morales gets a D, i get that he didnt work out but we understand why we made the signing and depending who you believe, we got Gurriel too. Also the Jays got IFA money for Morales (and Dwight Smith) who they used to sign; Yosver Zulueta, Jiorgeny Casimiri and Sem Robberse.

Blue Jays use international bonus pool money to sign three pitchers - Sportsnet.ca

All three players Badler speaks well of.

Other signings include Kirk, Moreno, Pardinho, Martinez, Hiraldo... All A's for me.

Got a few other pluses in the Estrada and Happ signings which help get us to the 2016 playoffs. Claims or acquisitions of Leone, Biagini, Maile,

Other smaller deals of Smith for Taylor and Pannone. Pearce for Espinal. Phelps for Hatch. Woodman for Diaz.

FO can make something from nothing but taking something and turning it into nothing like the JD, Osuna, and Happ trades will always be a black eye for them. Definitely more good than bad but the bad really hurt.

On your last point age aside I take Giles over Osuna. I think that trade was as good as could be expected with the situation.

 

[Muston Atthews]

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Pearson not an A+ with his status as perhaps the top SP prospect in the game?

Still a good amount of reliever risk and injury risk. That said, even if he lands as a lights out closer, it would land as an A+. Top three starter and its an A+++++.

We should probably mention their international signings too.

Orelvis Martinez
Eric Pardinho
Alejandro Kirk
Gabriel Moreno
Otto Lopez
Miguel Hiraldo
Leonardo Jimenez
Rikelvin De Castro

More than fair. Though I will note that none of those land much higher than a B when you have franchises like the Braves, Cubs, Rays, Dodgers and Yankees hitting the lottery on multiple occasions. The comparison for the grades has to be with one's peers, and I'd say they're slightly better than average (C+).

Acquisition costs of what we gave up plays a lot into the grade for me too.

Pearson is an A+ for me. Stroman trade might be a B+ for me. Gurriel, McGuire, and Thornton is a B.

More than fair.

Happ and Donaldson trades get Fs for me. Losing Urshela is an F. I understand the Osuna trade but without a good return on Giles, that might be an F too. Mayb

I left the Osuna trade out simply because those are circumstances you cannot truly plan for, nor adjust appropriately to from an asset management perspective. I consider it an N/A, though my reaction at the time and my true feeling if a grade was required would indeed be an F.

Morales gets a D, i get that he didnt work out but we understand why we made the signing and depending who you believe, we got Gurriel too. Also the Jays got IFA money for Morales (and Dwight Smith) who they used to sign; Yosver Zulueta, Jiorgeny Casimiri and Sem Robberse.

Interesting. Those are good points in terms of the web that spreads from the signing itself. I suppose I weigh the performance of the single player in this case, the opportunity cost and the overall poor strategy (in isolation) so heavily that it has to be an F for me. But to each their own.

Other smaller deals of Smith for Taylor and Pannone. Pearce for Espinal. Phelps for Hatch. Woodman for Diaz.

FO can make something from nothing but taking something and turning it into nothing like the JD, Osuna, and Happ trades will always be a black eye for them. Definitely more good than bad but the bad really hurt.

Phelps for Hatch is such a sneaky good deal, I was tempted to put it as a B.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I like Morosi, but I think its become quite clear that he floats vague stories for this front office, as well as several agents, on a regular basis.

 

[BlueForever75]

Ryu, Keuchel, Wheeler have all been in Jays chatter. Any 2 of the 3 would make for a fantastic off season for Jays. Could this very well be possible????

 

[Discoverer]

Losing Urshela is an F.

Balanced out by the A+ of replacing him with a minor league deal for Eric Sogard, who proceeded to turn in 2.2 fWAR in half a season and was flipped for a couple interesting prospects.

 

[Discoverer]

Ryu, Keuchel, Wheeler have all been in Jays chatter. Any 2 of the 3 would make for a fantastic off season for Jays. Could this very well be possible????

It's really, really, really unlikely they get two of those guys. One of them and a cheaper option with lots of upside (Pineda, Nelson, Walker, Wood, etc.) would be awesome.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Ryu, Keuchel, Wheeler have all been in Jays chatter. Any 2 of the 3 would make for a fantastic off season for Jays. Could this very well be possible????

I'm not optimistic

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Ryu, Keuchel, Wheeler have all been in Jays chatter. Any 2 of the 3 would make for a fantastic off season for Jays. Could this very well be possible????

Nah.

Balanced out by the A+ of replacing him with a minor league deal for Eric Sogard, who proceeded to turn in 2.2 fWAR in half a season and was flipped for a couple interesting prospects.

To be fair as well, its tough to grade it an 'F' given they identified the potential, twice, in the first place. They were just early (unless we're giving the Yankees credit for a swing change or something like that).

 

[BlueForever75]

It's really, really, really unlikely they get two of those guys. One of them and a cheaper option with lots of upside (Pineda, Nelson, Walker, Wood, etc.) would be awesome.

I would take Keuchel and Pineda, and call it an off season. I would also resign Shoemaker.

Keuchel
Pineda
Shoemaker
Anders0n
Thornton/Wags/Boruki

Is a hell of a lot better then what we put out there last season. I will argue that with that rotation (health permitting), we can be around .500 or better next season. I like some of their bullpen adds so far and I am sure we can expect a couple of more like every season cause that is Atkins ammo. Sign cheap relievers and peddle for more prospects.

The only holes I would like to see filled a stabilized is in the OF and 1B. Preferably a CF with speed, great D and gets on base AND a power bat to platoon with Tellez or outright take his spot (Moreland, Cron, Japanese slugger, Thames OR bring back Smoakie). Depending on these players, we may actually be contenders for a wildcard with that rotation and improvements from our youngsters.

 

[Longshot]

Acquisition costs of what we gave up plays a lot into the grade for me too.

Pearson is an A+ for me. Stroman trade might be a B+ for me. Gurriel, McGuire, and Thornton is a B.

Happ and Donaldson trades get Fs for me. Losing Urshela is an F. I understand the Osuna trade but without a good return on Giles, that might be an F too. Mayb

Morales gets a D, i get that he didnt work out but we understand why we made the signing and depending who you believe, we got Gurriel too. Also the Jays got IFA money for Morales (and Dwight Smith) who they used to sign; Yosver Zulueta, Jiorgeny Casimiri and Sem Robberse.

Blue Jays use international bonus pool money to sign three pitchers - Sportsnet.ca

All three players Badler speaks well of.

Other signings include Kirk, Moreno, Pardinho, Martinez, Hiraldo... All A's for me.

Got a few other pluses in the Estrada and Happ signings which help get us to the 2016 playoffs. Claims or acquisitions of Leone, Biagini, Maile,

Other smaller deals of Smith for Taylor and Pannone. Pearce for Espinal. Phelps for Hatch. Woodman for Diaz.

FO can make something from nothing but taking something and turning it into nothing like the JD, Osuna, and Happ trades will always be a black eye for them. Definitely more good than bad but the bad really hurt.

Great couple posts on all the movies by the current regime. Sometimes we forget that moves can be connected.

 

[Longshot]

Balanced out by the A+ of replacing him with a minor league deal for Eric Sogard, who proceeded to turn in 2.2 fWAR in half a season and was flipped for a couple interesting prospects.

I was surprised to see Urshela showing up on these lists. I have zero recollection of him ever being in Toronto and was surprised when it was a discussion point last season.

Refresh my memory, were some upset at the time that the Jays let him go/lost him?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I would take Keuchel and Pineda, and call it an off season. I would also resign Shoemaker.

Keuchel
Pineda
Shoemaker
Anders0n
Thornton/Wags/Boruki

Is a hell of a lot better then what we put out there last season. I will argue that with that rotation (health permitting), we can be around .500 or better next season. I like some of their bullpen adds so far and I am sure we can expect a couple of more like every season cause that is Atkins ammo. Sign cheap relievers and peddle for more prospects.

The only holes I would like to see filled a stabilized is in the OF and 1B. Preferably a CF with speed, great D and gets on base AND a power bat to platoon with Tellez or outright take his spot (Moreland, Cron, Japanese slugger, Thames OR bring back Smoakie). Depending on these players, we may actually be contenders for a wildcard with that rotation and improvements from our youngsters.

Pineda is suspended for 80 games.

 

[BlueForever75]

Pineda is suspended for 80 games.

Its 60 which is just over a third of the season. Could be a good buy low candidate. See what we have in Wags/Borucki/Pearson out of spring training. But if we don't want to risk it, Teheran or Walker are good gets as well with Keuchel.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Longshot]

My friend just sent me a link from Davidi that says the Jays have re-acquired Biagini and signed Loup. Any truth to that? I haven't clicked on it yet. LOL

EDIT: Nevermind, my friend was trolling his friends and wanted to see what I thought.

 

[BlueForever75]

I still think he would be a good get for the Jays. Has experience in the AL and AL East specifically playing at Yankee stadium and other AL East ballparks. Yes he was suspended for PED use for 60 games. But 20 of those have already been chewed up for last season. So he has about 40 left to serve. He can still participate in spring training I believe I could be wrong. But definitely a great buy low candidate for a one year deal plus option. Don't think there will be too much of a market for him and if the Jays are smart they snap him up quickly.

 

[Kurtz]

So apparently Wheeler may have a 5/100m offer from some team.

Would you guys be happy if that team was the Jays?

 

[Longshot]

So apparently Wheeler may have a 5/100m offer from some team.

Would you guys be happy if that team was the Jays?

I'm curious to see why a Jays fan wouldn't be happy if they made that offer/move.

Bringing in talent that costs just cash is always great, provided it's not some idiotic contract that will haunt them in the future and I don't see 5 at $100 million as being an example of that kind of deal.

 

[Amadeus]

So apparently Wheeler may have a 5/100m offer from some team.

Would you guys be happy if that team was the Jays?

Yes! We need pitching.

That's the going rate for a solid top 3 starter in your rotation.