Blue Jays Discussion: The long, slow march of a winter off-season

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

If they gave Wheeler 130 million I would have been complaining about wasting money

Odd, given he's been worth $30+ a season over the last two, and is trending upward.

How in the **** are the Detroit Tigers receiving a small market competitive balance pick? At the beginning of the decade, Illitch was routinely dropping $200+ million on that team...

And was losing money fairly consistently. He essentially wanted to win before he passed away.

We already know the White Sox made an offer for $120+ million and he turned it down due primarily to location, so I don't know why you would make such a definitive statement.

Which is odd because Philly is a wretched, wretched place to live.

He must really like eastern standard time.

 

[Jozay]

One of the guys they had "legitimate Interest" in decided he'd be better off accepting his QO lol. Tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Scotianhab]

Odd, given he's been worth $30+ a season over the last two, and is trending upward.



And was losing money fairly consistently. He essentially wanted to win before he passed away.



Which is odd because Philly is a wretched, wretched place to live.

He must really like eastern standard time.

His wife is from Jersey. It’s why he chose Philly over CWS.

 

[The Nemesis]

Oh Marcus

The ironing is delicious.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

His wife is from Jersey. It’s why he chose Philly over CWS.

Shout out to airplanes out here in these streets.

 

[Discoverer]

Shout out to airplanes out here in these streets.

You know, I respect your baseball opinions, but you don't seem to have a very good understanding of how airplanes work.

 

[GoonieFace]

While I don't fully disagree, I think the "guys don't want to come to Toronto" excuse that the media helped peddle in the 2000's for Riccardi, and later Alex, is largely BS.

If you're paying, they're coming. And I don't want to hear a damn thing about taxes or weather because if that was weighed that heavily, dudes wouldn't sign in New York, Boston, Washington or Minnesota.

The taxes and weather thing is nonsense. Playing in a different country might be more difficult to swallow for some, mostly American born players IMO. I think the willingness to spend is there, just have to find the right fit.

 

[GoonieFace]

Its easy to attract free agents, it simply means the Jays and ownership has to spend more on specific free agents then other teams do to sway them to come to Toronto. In the end every free agent is after one thing and that is money.

For example Wheeler got 5yrs for 118 million from the Phillies. Did he sign there cause its hot? NOT. Did he sign there cause their chances of winning a title are better then the Atlanta or Washington in that division? NOT because some can argue that those teams still have the leg up on the Phillies!!!! Was it because of the superstar on their team in Harper? NOT because many teams have players at his level or close to it or will be one day. He signed there cause of the dollars. So if the Jays offered him 5 years at 130 million would he sign with Toronto? I tell you yes, it only takes ownership and leadership having the set of balls to do it.

If ownership doesn't know already then something is wrong. The Jays have always had to pay a premium to sway free agents to come here. It happened with Dave Stewart, Dave Winfield, Paul Molitor, Jack Morris, Roger Clemens, AJ Burnett, Ryan and Martin. If you pay the premium they will come.

For some reason ownership and leadership are just too dumb to realize that. Pay the Keuchel and Ryu types left on the market 2 million more a season and they will come. Its only money, and the organization will make it 10 fold back if they are contending and a winning club. I never understood how they don't understand this concept. Blue Jays fill stadiums with a winner. Put a winner on the field and spend the money. Lose and you will lose money.

Putting a winner on the field doesnt just mean throwing money at everyone, still have to be smart about it. They have shown the willingness to spend in the past, when the time was right.

 

[Woodman19]

With how our roster is constructed we basically have a 3 year window where we can spend $100 million on anything without it impacting our core of the rebuild. We should be using that to overpay the tier 2 guys in free agency and buying some wins instead of trying to find value. Odorizzi should have been a slam dunk IMO.

 

[Discoverer]

With how our roster is constructed we basically have a 3 year window where we can spend $100 million on anything without it impacting our core of the rebuild. We should be using that to overpay the tier 2 guys in free agency and buying some wins instead of trying to find value. Odorizzi should have been a slam dunk IMO.

I was ok giving up the pick for Wheeler. Odorizzi, though, would have had to be a hell of a bargain to be worth it.

 

[theaub]

His wife is from Jersey. It’s why he chose Philly over CWS.

We'll never know but I'd be interested to see if they White Sox offered anything to try to negate that, similar to how the Jays gave AJ Burnett's wife something like 10 limo rides back to Maryland every season.

 

[GoonieFace]

Anyone been to spring training? If so, any tips about getting tickets etc. Tickets seem pretty expensive online, I suppose that may have to do with the new facility.

 

[BlueForever75]

Anyone been to spring training? If so, any tips about getting tickets etc. Tickets seem pretty expensive online, I suppose that may have to do with the new facility.

I was there for 2016 Spring Training. I actually won tickets, flight and hotel from the fan590.

But when I was there, car rental was a must. Tickets bought at Stadium were much cheaper and always available as the place normally filled up to 70% compacity. Never a sell out.

One guy on the trip had parents that retired in Tampa from Toronto. When they found out their son was coming over they decided to join him for 2 of the 3 games we watched. If I remember correctly they paid $20 US at the time at stadium. And their son sat with them because of empty seats on either side of them.

 

[GoonieFace]

I was there for 2016 Spring Training. I actually won tickets, flight and hotel from the fan590.

But when I was there, car rental was a must. Tickets bought at Stadium were much cheaper and always available as the place normally filled up to 70% compacity. Never a sell out.

One guy on the trip had parents that retired in Tampa from Toronto. When they found out their son was coming over they decided to join him for 2 of the 3 games we watched. If I remember correctly they paid $20 US at the time at stadium. And their son sat with them because of empty seats on either side of them.

Thanks for the info. I was figuring buying tickets there might be the best option.

 

[phillipmike]

These are 2020's Top 100 Draft prospects

Top 10:
1. Emerson Hancock, RHP, Georgia
2. Spencer Torkelson, 1B, Arizona State
3. Austin Martin, SS, Vanderbilt
4. Nick Gonzales, 2B, New Mexico State
5. Asa Lacy, LHP, Texas A&M
6. Garrett Mitchell, OF, UCLA
7. Jared Kelley, RHP, Refugio (Texas) HS
8. Mick Abel, RHP, Jesuit (Ore.) HS
9. Garrett Crochet, LHP, Tennessee
10. Austin Hendrick, OF, West Allegheny (Pa.) HS
Complete list »

 

[phillipmike]

Encarnacion experience offers lessons as Blue Jays continue pitching hunt - Sportsnet.ca

To that end, it was interesting to hear Ross Atkins pick Edwin Encarnacion when asked which veteran parting was most emotionally difficult for the general manager during his tenure with the Toronto Blue Jays. The split after the 2016 season remains regrettable, a product of pivotal miscalculations by both sides, and the way things went down represents an important lesson in how teams stand to lose just as much by not spending on a player as they can in making a big-money mistake.

“Eddie, for me,” Atkins said in response to the question during the Toronto chapter of the Baseball Writers’ Association of America’s annual awards luncheon Wednesday. “He’s just such an incredible person, he was such a great piece to the equation that we were really aggressive in trying to (retain) him and it didn’t work out. In hindsight, we could have handled that differently, for sure. But that one was a tough one for me and I still remain very respectful of him and am in touch with him and his representation.”

 

[Amadeus]

These are 2020's Top 100 Draft prospects

Need a high end pitcher in the worst of ways. LHP would be ideal and it looks like we're slotted right there for Asa Lacy.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Encarnacion experience offers lessons as Blue Jays continue pitching hunt - Sportsnet.ca

My favorite part of the article

(although had he stayed the Blue Jays wouldn’t have top prospect Nate Pearson, selected with the compensatory draft pick they got in return).

That and the fact he was paid 60 million dollars to produce 5.8 fWAR you're spending more than 10 million dollars for each win, and we had offered an extra 20 for this coming year too(4x20).

Seems like the right move/result in hindsight, Morales aside(which may or may not have had Gurriel implications)

 

[Kurtz]

Weather shouldn't even be an issue. It's a problem for the Raptors, but why would it be for the Jays? Late spring to mid fall is beautiful here.

I said a few months ago that Keuchel made the most sense for us given how our management operates, and I think he'll be our guy. Ryu would be great, but I think he gets 4 years and that's too much risk for our management.

Keuchel, Shoe and a couple of bounce-back potential types (Bundy would have been nice) is probably the best we can hope for - and wouldn't be so bad, especially if we can get Paxton next year. Maybe we can spend some of our riches on another Liriano-type deal, which would be pretty great.

 

[Discoverer]

Need a high end pitcher in the worst of ways. LHP would be ideal and it looks like we're slotted right there for Asa Lacy.

Not that it wouldn't be awesome to add another big-time pitching prospect, but they're in a pretty good spot when it comes to high-upside pitching right now.

 

[phillipmike]

Wow, more than I thought Pineda would get. Thought it would be one year.

 

[Cor]

Pineda off the board.

We are going to sign no one of relevance. And Atkins and Shapiro gonna be like "we tried" again

 

[dredeye]

Gibson also off the board.

 

[dredeye]

Yanks apparently prioritizing Cole.

 

[Discoverer]

Yanks apparently prioritizing Cole.

I'm shocked!