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TV: The Last of Us (HBO)

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Twisted Sinister said:
I mean, I get that you like it, but I'm a little surprised you wouldn't get the hate for the game. It's gloomy, as you say.

If you'd like a few other reasons, I can throw some out there:
-Many could never stomach the idea of playing as Abby. They tried to make her and her circle of misfits more likable than the vengeful Ellie with the puppies and the pregnancies and the whatnot, but many found it hollow and sided with Ellie regardless. That make playing as Abby a chore.

-I believe someone called the game misery porn above. While the first game could definitely be dark, it had enjoyable elements. This was just a miserable slog, and lots of people don't like that.


-Finally, from a storytelling perspective, Druckmann made the mistake of constructing the story around themes rather than characters. This is a usually a hallmark of shallow, pretentious storytellers and, as a result, their story does in fact convey their theme, but only on a surface level. TLOU 1, on the other hand, was a character-driven game that was pretty well-liked by everyone. The sequel was greatly missing Amy Hennig, who wrote most of part 1 and was jettisoned by Druckmann for being better than him at everything. (Joking. Maybe.)

The consequence of theme-based storytelling is that the characters are often a square peg that needs to fit a round hole so that everything serves the theme. The problem is compounded if the characters have a history and defined personalities and motives. You now have to sometimes contradict those to get your theme across.


So the tl;dr
1) Lots didn't want to play as Abby for spoilery reasons
2) Misery porn
3) Superficial/Shallow storytelling
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I agree with most of everything you said, except that Amy Henning never worked on TLoU. TLoU1's story was developed by Druckmann and Bruce Straley, whom he had a falling out with and was essentially scrubbed from any mention in the PS5 remaster, which is pretty f***ed. Neil has definitely let the success get to his head and comes off as a pretentious douchebag now, which is a shame. The writing in the second game is certainly indicative of that.
 
The Merchant said:
I agree with most of everything you said, except that Amy Henning never worked on TLoU. TLoU1's story was developed by Druckmann and Bruce Straley, whom he had a falling out with and was essentially scrubbed from any mention in the PS5 remaster, which is pretty f***ed. Neil has definitely let the success get to his head and comes off as a pretentious douchebag now, which is a shame. The writing in the second game is certainly indicative of that.
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Right, sorry, you're right. I got my wires crossed. Straley was who Druckmann screwed on TLOU. Hennig was shitcanned by the pretentious douchebag after making Uncharted what it was.
 
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this became brokeback mountain very fast :laugh:

I will say it is an emotional bonding experience though.
 
It just seems that every episode is getting better and better. Episode 3, about 50 minutes in, is already more emotional and more impactful than Episodes 2 or 1. It largely doesn't involve Ellie and Joel, but is a touching story of love and emotion, all of which was fleshed out BEFORE the game meets them. Just simply phenomenal work building the backstory.
 
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Biggest difference from the games for sure, but a very good episode.



Kinda sad we didn't get to see Bill and Ellie meet, but also his story in the game was incomplete anyways so oh well. Much happier ending for Bill here. Some people will be upset about it I'm sure but they shouldn't be. I hope they expand more stories going forward like this, especially in the 2nd game. Didn't change anything major with the main plot, but added an entire story to a character we hardly had one for
 
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By far the biggest changes from the game so far. Still an excellent episode, but some of its emotional power was undercut by noticing the aspects that changed. I imagine non-gamers will like this episode a whole lot.

Game footage in spoiler below for those curious about the changes
 
That was a great episode. I saw someone say on Twitter that it's the kind of wonderful piece of television that is more rare in an era of streaming or all-at-once episode dumps. The kind of episode that deserves a week to breath until things ramp up again in the next one. Bartlett and Offerman were phenomenal. And Pascal and Ramsey were able to take their characters a step forward with great, subtle, stuff at the end without stepping on what was an episode about two other characters,
 
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That was a good bit of rewriting from the game as it:

- have a better story to a character(s)
- able to do something different instead of a word-for-word rename of the game.
- did not alter any main events of the story.
 
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Outstanding episode. To be honest, after giving up on Walking Dead after four season, I really couldn't give a shit about zombie killing in this zombie apocalypse show but I also don't want to see the same tired "the real threat is the humans."

So far this is hitting all the right beats for me and Bill/Frank's isolated life in the apocalypse was a real treat to watch. Well acted, well written, just outstanding all around.
 
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Hivemind said:
By far the biggest changes from the game so far. Still an excellent episode, but some of its emotional power was undercut by noticing the aspects that changed. I imagine non-gamers will like this episode a whole lot.

Game footage in spoiler below for those curious about the changes
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As someone who loves the game, I think this is an achievement in deviation. The games version of Bill is essentially a cautionary tale for Joel of who he could be if he pushes everyone out. Old, cold, alone, and hated by the ones he cares about.

The shows version of Bill is the story of who Joel could be if he lets those in who love him, and allows himself to love them back.

Joel essentially gets the same lesson, but it’s done in a much more optimistic and beautiful way than the game.

TheAngryHank said:
didn't care for this ep... two people that didn't add to anything and are dead so can't add anything.. seemed like some random people chucked in to the middle of a show for no reason.
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I really don’t understand the people who say this episode was a waste of time. I’m becoming increasingly aware that some viewers just don’t have any media literacy whatsoever.

If Joel and Ellie had just shown up and they were dead, it would have been stupid to hand over a car and a shit ton of supplies on a silver platter. This episode gives those possessions meaning and context, and we can understand that they have been earned because Joel is the only person other than Frank that Bill trusted in 20 years. Probably ever.

More than that, Bill may have died, but Joel got to see that he died happy. Bill, of all people, after Joel told him that raiders would kill him and Frank in the middle of the night, got to live a far happier life than Joel did for 20 years. That letter is a big part of Joel’s motivation going forwards, knowing that you have to live for something like Bill did. Joel isn’t living, he’s just surviving.

There’s some beautiful irony that the doomsday prepper is the one who allowed himself to be vulnerable for a chance at happiness and Joel won’t do that.
 
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TheAngryHank said:
didn't care for this ep... two people that didn't add to anything and are dead so can't add anything.. seemed like some random people chucked in to the middle of a show for no reason.
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There are hot takes, there are bad takes, and then there's.... well... this take

:biglaugh:

Walkingthroughforest said:
As someone who loves the game, I think this is an achievement in deviation. The games version of Bill is essentially a cautionary tale for Joel of who he could be if he pushes everyone out. Old, cold, alone, and hated by the ones he cares about.

The shows version of Bill is the story of who Joel could be if he lets those in who love him, and allows himself to love them back.

Joel essentially gets the same lesson, but it’s done in a much more optimistic and beautiful way than the game.
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I don't disagree with you, just noting that some of its personal impact on me was lessened by my expectations of this episode created by the game. When you go thru an episode watching for certain things, it can put you in a different headspace.
 
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That was nice. I didn't mind that it was a nearly self-contained episode. It was actually more interesting to me than the main story so far. Finally, we got to see a little humanity in the wasteland. The first half reminded me a lot of Richard Matheson's I Am Legend. The guy playing Bill did a really good job.

It was extremely predictable, though. I haven't played the game and saw just about everything coming, which undercut some of the emotional power that it was supposed to have.
 
Walkingthroughforest said:
As someone who loves the game, I think this is an achievement in deviation. The games version of Bill is essentially a cautionary tale for Joel of who he could be if he pushes everyone out. Old, cold, alone, and hated by the ones he cares about.

The shows version of Bill is the story of who Joel could be if he lets those in who love him, and allows himself to love them back.

Joel essentially gets the same lesson, but it’s done in a much more optimistic and beautiful way than the game.



I really don’t understand the people who say this episode was a waste of time. I’m becoming increasingly aware that some viewers just don’t have any media literacy whatsoever.

If Joel and Ellie had just shown up and they were dead, it would have been stupid to hand over a car and a shit ton of supplies on a silver platter. This episode gives those possessions meaning and context, and we can understand that they have been earned because Joel is the only person other than Frank that Bill trusted in 20 years. Probably ever.

More than that, Bill may have died, but Joel got to see that he died happy. Bill, of all people, after Joel told him that raiders would kill him and Frank in the middle of the night, got to live a far happier life than Joel did for 20 years. That letter is a big part of Joel’s motivation going forwards, knowing that you have to live for something like Bill did. Joel isn’t living, he’s just surviving.

There’s some beautiful irony that the doomsday prepper is the one who allowed himself to be vulnerable for a chance at happiness and Joel won’t do that.
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That's a good way of putting it all around. I was thinking of adding to my above reply but I don't think I would've put it as well and concisely as you did. The story, in a self-contained sense served as a completely unconventional yet touching love story in a genre that doesn't have a lot of room for them, or at least doesn't endeavor to showcase them this way.

But it also directly impacts the growth and perspectives of the main character in all the ways you just mentioned. I mean to say the Bill and Frank story was for "no reason" is the worst take I've read all day and I spent the day watching hordes of armchair lip readers declare that Trevor Zegras said something terrible about a player's father, wish injury on him, and get utterly discredited by the Coyotes' beat reporter.
 
Not what I was expecting with Bill and quite a deviation from the game with his character, but the episode was well done.

Would have liked to see Bill and Ellie together, but not sure that would have worked with this story.
 
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