No disrespect, but Max Richter's On the Nature of Daylight was not made for Arrival and it is a popular piece that is used in soooo many films and tv episodes almost to the point of cliche.
Still gets me every time though
TV: The Last of Us (HBO)
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No disrespect, but Max Richter's On the Nature of Daylight was not made for Arrival and it is a popular piece that is used in soooo many films and tv episodes almost to the point of cliche.
Still gets me every time though
Agreed. Weekly releases are the only reason we're able to have an active water cooler discussion on the show. When its released all at once I (and most people I would think) would avoid this thread due to spoilers
Hivemind
We're Touched
1) There were a few different hints dropped. There was subtext to the lines in dinner about "I know I don't seem like that kind of guy" when referring to the wine/rabbit pairing and Frank's response "No, you do." By the time they went to the piano, Frank had picked up enough about Bill to be able to accurately guess which sheet music Bill care for. And in the moment, Frank gave Bill an off-ramps during the conversation at the piano, with the "who's the woman?" line and then again when offering Bill to take a shower. If Bill wasn't into it or didn't yet trust Frank, he wouldn't have been willing to show the type of vulnerability there in taking that shower. This is a situation in which Bill could have easily killed Frank at any point in the lead up to these moments as well, or even stood resolute in denying Frank access to his home. It had only been a few hours, but a lot of trust had to be formed quickly, and emotions would have been running very high given the stakes.
Not to mention Bill was a person who had repressed his romantic desires his whole life up until that point. This was like uncorking a dam.
2) Bill is a survivalist, but he's not necessarily a trained soldier or combatant in this show. He has tons of guns, but hasn't really fought with them. The most he's really done is kill some infected who have stumbled into his security system, and they don't have ranged weapons or strategic thoughts the same way. This is him being put into an unfamiliar situation.
Walkingthroughforest
I got the worst ******* attorneys
- Aug 19, 2007
- 7,678
- 1,958
I think you’re not really picking up what’s going on. Joel clearly has no interest in forming a bond with Ellie or looking at her as anything but cargo. This is a broken man who shut himself and his heart off to the world a long time ago. At this point, he would gladly sacrifice Ellie to save himself.
Bill’s letter and the lesson he tries to share is essential to Joel considering a different path.
Great story for Bill and Frank. Shame we didnt see anything between Ellie Joel and Bill but looking how great story ended between Frank and Bill maybe its for the best.
Yeah, at first I was sad we didn't see Bill meet up with Joel & Ellie but the story was so well told that I can't really argue against it either.
I'm completely with you on point #1 and the showrunners say as much on the companion podcast about this episode. The romance did ignite quickly, but why wouldn't it for two people yearning for human interaction while caught in an impossible circumstance?
As for point #2, that was one of the very few issues I had with the episode, but I actually really like your rationale. I still don't think any sane human being (especially one so familiar with weaponry) that's being shot at would stand aimlessly in the middle of the street, but I can forgive it. I also found it hard to believe that every single raider would've been conveniently killed off-screen with little to no consequence, but again minor qualms during the only relatively weak scene of what was otherwise a tremendous hour of television.
Chips
Registered User
- Aug 19, 2015
- 8,526
- 7,361
episode 3 was one of the best of any show I’ve ever seen, at least in a long time. A more fully fleshed out, meaningful character arc in one episode than many shows pull off in their entire run. I felt more feelings than I’ve felt for a show or movie in a long time, such great actors and great chemistry between them. I picked up on the gay aspect really quick (never played the game) before they really started dropping hints, just from the subtleties of how Bill approached him when they first met. Offerman is underrated actor
Randy Butternubs
FDJT
Episode 3 is getting review bombed on IMDB. Which is both disappointing and unsurprising.
Chips
Registered User
- Aug 19, 2015
- 8,526
- 7,361
Really angsty middle school book report vibes here lol. Joel very clearly wasn’t even close to “dad mode” that’s the whole point of this part of the plot. He’s hardened from losing his daughter then Tess, and was clearly feeling a bit resentful of Ellie even if he partly knew it wasn’t fair. He really did just take her on for transactional purposes , the battery as he still wants to find his brother; he even builds a battery or something in the episode
It’s basically the same point as in the game from how people are describing it, to soften Joel, but also for our benefit; the whole thing is about people basically, and 3 was a really positive if dramatic demonstration of human nature
Bill isn’t just finding a love in the apocalypse. In an apocalypse anyone would automatically be severely distrustful, but Bill seemed to have been by his own nature struggling to trust or let his guard down with people even before the apocalypse; against all odds he of all people meets Frank, maintaining a happy life in a post apocalyptic world with just themselves and less “things”. They were right for each other, picked up on it almost immediately and found true happiness and a worthwhile life simply through the little things, all little things like strawberries
Joel would remember Bill from when they first met, super distrusting, hesitant etc pointing a gun at him. He largely did a 180 and found that there was still plenty to live for, each other. It was a pretty powerful episode exploring our humanity.
izlez
Carter Mazur Fan Club
- Feb 28, 2012
- 5,250
- 4,334
I'm surprised so many people loved the episode and are specifically praising the writing. I was so bothered by the fact that scenes played out like:
#1. Viewers are introduced to Bill. The one thing we learn about him is he is a shrewd survivalist who is overly careful, distrusting of others, and willing to sacrifice human contact to ensure survival.
#2. Random guy falls in trap. Invites him inside and have sex within 10 actual minutes.
#3. That random guy you fell in love with IMMEDIATELY: Time has passed and now you have reason to trust him. He invites friends over for dinner and vouches for them, Bill doesn't take his hand off his gun for the entire dinner, because obviously this guy is a shrewd survivalist who is overly careful.
So we are told one thing about a character, and he is immediately betraying everything we know about him. I spent so much time waiting for this guys' idiotic actions that betray everything we know he stands for to come back and bite him in the ass like the dumb character in a horror movie, but it doesn't even get addressed.
I'm no writer, but that seems like bad writing to me. There were lots of other little things that had me rolling my eyes, but this was the big one that did a bad job of setting up the whole episode. The writers needed the romance to ignite quickly? Ok, make the purpose of scene #1 to establish that Bill is yearning for human contact. Make him go out on little missions trying to find someone to interact with or something. Make that who he is.
Their whole story felt rushed, which shouldn't happen. An hour should have been enough to tell that story in a well-paced manner. If not, extend it to other episodes. In general, I don't like serious "zombie" shows/movies because there's too much I can't just ignore. I wanted to give this one a shot because I enjoyed the games, but so far it's not drawing me in and doubting I continue after season 1, if I make it that far.
#1. Viewers are introduced to Bill. The one thing we learn about him is he is a shrewd survivalist who is overly careful, distrusting of others, and willing to sacrifice human contact to ensure survival.
#2. Random guy falls in trap. Invites him inside and have sex within 10 actual minutes.
#3. That random guy you fell in love with IMMEDIATELY: Time has passed and now you have reason to trust him. He invites friends over for dinner and vouches for them, Bill doesn't take his hand off his gun for the entire dinner, because obviously this guy is a shrewd survivalist who is overly careful.
So we are told one thing about a character, and he is immediately betraying everything we know about him. I spent so much time waiting for this guys' idiotic actions that betray everything we know he stands for to come back and bite him in the ass like the dumb character in a horror movie, but it doesn't even get addressed.
I'm no writer, but that seems like bad writing to me. There were lots of other little things that had me rolling my eyes, but this was the big one that did a bad job of setting up the whole episode. The writers needed the romance to ignite quickly? Ok, make the purpose of scene #1 to establish that Bill is yearning for human contact. Make him go out on little missions trying to find someone to interact with or something. Make that who he is.
Their whole story felt rushed, which shouldn't happen. An hour should have been enough to tell that story in a well-paced manner. If not, extend it to other episodes. In general, I don't like serious "zombie" shows/movies because there's too much I can't just ignore. I wanted to give this one a shot because I enjoyed the games, but so far it's not drawing me in and doubting I continue after season 1, if I make it that far.
Em etah Eh
Maroon PP
- Jul 17, 2007
- 3,130
- 1,538
I agree. I don’t think I’ve ever been more vested in a one episode appearance than with these two characters. I rarely come to the entertainment boards these days, but this episode was worth the trip. Just a beautiful story. I will say, I never played the game, if that matters…
RobBrown4PM
Pringles?
- Oct 12, 2009
- 8,938
- 2,871
They needed a car battery. The obvious solution for them to get one was for Mazin to sideline them for 85% of the episode and cause half the world to ball their eyes out, and inflicting significant emotional distress in the process.
RobBrown4PM
Pringles?
- Oct 12, 2009
- 8,938
- 2,871
1) Considering the run-time, and the need to include Elli and Joel scenes, they did an immaculate job at establishing the relationship and making that entire storyline impactful.
2) Bill, as I previously said, is a lunatic cosplayer. He has no formal training in combat. Just because he can set up traps doesn't mean he's at all capable in actual combat. Like a lot of untrained people or amateurs would do in their first firefight, he got stuck in fight or flight mode. He chose to fight, but soldiers are trained to override their natural instincts that kept Bill fighting but also kept him frozen in place. Instead, soldiers are drilled relentlessly to fight while using tactics and communication.
Dubi Doo
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2008
- 20,766
- 14,962
There are plenty of people out there who would get it on with someone within a few hours of meeting them. I used to do it when Id go out to bars, and Im sure I would've been even more giddy had I been isolated for years and finally found a person I was attracted to who wanted to join me for dinner.
As for Frank's gaydar- Bill was acting nervous the entire time. I thought it was because he hadn't been in company with another perwon in a while, but apparently there was a lot of sexual tension. I still meet women that I'll feel some sexual tension with (not a ton; Im not a dime piece or anything, but a good enough looking dude, I suppose), but I suppress it since Im a married man now.
As for the kiss, Bill had been suppressing his sexuality for his entire life. Society collapsing allowed him to be comfortable enough to fall in love with another man. Im sure he had been fantasizing about a kiss with a man for a long time. He wasn't complaining!
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Jussi
Registered User
Some posters here say there's no such thing as review bombing and even if there is, review fluffing evens it out....
Arthur Morgan
Registered User
I dunno I didnt feel much for the characters in the end. not much time invested in them. it was a good episode but I was far from crying in the end, I was kinda disappointed Bill died and we didnt get any of the moments, would have been nice to see Bill like handcuff Ellie and they bicker back and forth. also Bill was kinda crazy. always talking to himself and referring to himself in the 3rd person. the episode was good but they skipped alot of parts I was excited to see
TheAngryHank
Expert
- May 28, 2008
- 18,402
- 6,922
Joel shared his food with her ,trys to avoid the death pit of bodies so she did't have to see that sort of thing.. Small things like that , She is more than cargo because he puts up with dumb wise cracks when he could hit the eject button at any time.He loved Tess so obviously he is capable of that emotion. He pretty much made a vow to deliver Ellie to someone who might help end the pandemic.
Middle school angst ,ill own that , im not very good at putting my thoughts to a written word.
Osprey
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2005
- 28,118
- 11,094
You don't need to be trained in combat to know not to stand still out in the open while being fired upon. Most of us haven't been in combat and know that, and we're not nearly as generally careful as Bill. Even hunters understand the importance of cover, and Bill was presumably a very skilled hunter because he always had meat on the table. I wouldn't say that he was really in an unfamiliar position or frozen in place. His property was attacked, as it often was, and he chose to run out into the middle of the street, instead of dealing with it from the safety of the house, as usual. Yeah, unlike animals or the infected, these attackers were smart and could fire back, but that's all the more reason to be careful and stay behind cover. As soon as I saw him, I knew that he was about to get shot, because there was no other reason for the writers to make an ultra-paranoid survivalist abandon all sense and caution like that. He could've been hit as he leaned out from behind cover to take a shot, instead, but it probably wouldn't have been as dramatic of a scene, and the writers are going to tend to go with what's most dramatic over what's most believable.
RobBrown4PM
Pringles?
- Oct 12, 2009
- 8,938
- 2,871
It's not that you want to stand still, it's that fear has taken over and you just happen to have a tool in hand to use to combat the situation. The fight or flight response is one of the most potent instinctual mechanics humanity has.
Edit: It takes a lot of training and a lot of time to override the fight or flight response. Again, which is why professional soldiers can maintain discipline and respond to orders in life and death situations.
sdf
Registered User
Osprey
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2005
- 28,118
- 11,094
I don't think that that applies to the situation that we're talking about. Bill presumably woke up, grabbed his rifle (it wasn't just already in his hands) and went out of the house and into the street to meet the attackers. If anything, he was showing that he wasn't afraid of them. Also, when Frank called out to him, he retreated a few steps, turned towards him and told him to get inside. He wasn't frozen in place.
Bill was a cartoon character in the game, way over the top. I prefer this much more nuanced approach to his story
TheBeastCoast
Registered User
Yeah a lot more depth here. Bill while great in the game was very much video game tropey. That episode actually gives me some level of hope that the second game will be handled properly in future seasons because that game should not be a direct port onto TV either.
