The Kreider Thread (1/22: Kreider fine, skating at practice)

[Colby]

Corey Pronman of Hockey Prospectus just released his updated Top 50 Prospects:

42. Chris Kreider, Left Wing, New York Rangers (Previous Ranking: 32): This was by far the hardest ranking to make on this list. My scouting brain tells me to put Kreider much higher based on his great physical tools, but the statistician in me looks at his first half AHL production, considers he is a 21-year-old with two shots per game as a shooting forward, and red lights start going off. There are good arguments either to be much more optimistic or pessimistic about him. My impression from talking to scouts is he has been working more on his defense, which may be affecting his scoring output.

This sounds fair to me. Pronman asked from some help from his followers a couple of week ago to research players who went on the be Top 6 forwards in the NHL after posting under .5 PPG in their 21 year old AHL season. The examples were few and far in between. The list he came up with was Michael Ryder, Alexandre Burrows, and David Backes.

Every case is different, but Kreider's production in the AHL was less than ideal.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Corey Pronman of Hockey Prospectus just released his updated Top 50 Prospects:



This sounds fair to me. Pronman asked from some help from his followers a couple of week ago to research players who went on the be Top 6 forwards in the NHL after posting under .5 PPG in their 21 year old AHL season. The examples were few and far in between. The list he came up with was Michael Ryder, Alexandre Burrows, and David Backes.

Every case is different, but Kreider's production in the AHL was less than ideal.

Why is his production in the AHL seen as more important than his play in the playoffs? Just unbelievable.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is a logical, level-headed response. Unfortunately, its not the thought process of many Ranger fans.

The MO around here is to gloat when prospects are doing well and make a litany of excuses when things are going poorly.

I didn't read every post in the prospects thread, but weren't a bunch of people saying Lindberg is just playing with great players.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I'm not going to comment either way on the ranking, but there are few people I have routinely disagreed with more than Pronman. Filed into the "grain of salt" category.

 

[Beacon]

Why is his production in the AHL seen as more important than his play in the playoffs? Just unbelievable.

1. Because it's more games.

2. Because it's more recent.

3. His playoff performance wasn't consistently good. He had a couple of nice games, but there were plenty of bad games there as well. We forgave those because he was just weeks out of college, but let's not pretend like he was a dominant player game in and game out. He had about a third of a point per game. Not exactly a dominant performance.

Not only did stars like Gabby and Brad score more, but guys like Stepan, Anisimov, Callahan, and even defensemen Del Zotto, Staal and Girardi outscored him. Boyle, Fedotenko and even Stralman scored the same as or within 1 point of Kreider. Think about it: who is going around saying Feds and Stralman had amazing playoffs? Nobody.

 

[Tawnos]

^^

I actually do think Stralman had an amazing playoffs, but other than that agreed.

Also, you absolutely cannot use last playoffs as any kind of judgment. The guy was on a life equivalent of a sugar high. You don't really see what he's like until he's leveled out.

I'm not being pessimistic about Kreider. I still think he's going to turn into a solid player. Just throwing out thoughts.

 

[Kershaw]

Feds was also PPG in the Devils series, our leading scorer I believe.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

1. Because it's more games.

2. Because it's more recent.

3. His playoff performance wasn't consistently good. He had a couple of nice games, but there were plenty of bad games there as well. We forgave those because he was just weeks out of college, but let's not pretend like he was a dominant player game in and game out. He had about a third of a point per game. Not exactly a dominant performance.

Not only did stars like Gabby and Brad score more, but guys like Stepan, Anisimov, Callahan, and even defensemen Del Zotto, Staal and Girardi outscored him. Boyle, Fedotenko and even Stralman scored the same as or within 1 point of Kreider. Think about it: who is going around saying Feds and Stralman had amazing playoffs? Nobody.

It's not that many more games. It's only a few months more recent. He played very well for a guy straight out of college. It wasn't only his points. The energy he brought to the team was very important. We probably don't even beat Ottawa without him and he was our best forward against NJ.

Also, you judge him harshly as a top prospect in the AHL, but don't seem to give him any leeway as a guy that was put in a very tough situation in the playoffs.

Seriously, you don't give him any credit and all you do is criticize him. Seriously did he spit in your cheerios? I mean, I know you say you want him to succeed yet you completely bypass his positives. You sound like a Devils fan would if he were talking about Kreider. You sound like you're rooting for him to fail. If not, why are you completely bypassing all of the positive and focusing solely on the negatives?

 

[Killem Dafoe]

He's a beast. I think he belongs in the lineup and he's the type of player who will just play better on the Rangers than he will on the Whale.

 

[n8]

isn't there going to be a training camp, however short, for them to determine the starting roster?

 

[donpaulo]

I think its a question of expectations.

I think as long as people are looking at this kid and hoping for 30 goals they are probably going to be left feeling like CK didn't meet their demands.

I simply want him to make the club ideally on the 3rd line and garner some touches and ice time on the powerplay by earning it.

This season is going to be a sprint and NY is going to need everyone to contribute if they hope to make the finals.

 

[Beacon]

Seriously, you don't give him any credit and all you do is criticize him. Seriously did he spit in your cheerios?

Look at my posts when he was doing well. Was that acknowledged? Yes. But when he did poorly, what am I supposed to say?

Every response to "Kreider has struggled in the AHL" has been excuse making using irrelevant statements that have nothing to do with his AHL performance. Why is it ok to acknowledge when others are struggling, but every time you touch any team's top prospect, fans get hysterical.

 

[JCrusher*]

Look at my posts when he was doing well. Was that acknowledged? Yes. But when he did poorly, what am I supposed to say?

Every response to "Kreider has struggled in the AHL" has been excuse making using irrelevant statements that have nothing to do with his AHL performance. Why is it ok to acknowledge when others are struggling, but every time you touch any team's top prospect, fans get hysterical.

Im not making excuses ofr kreider but it does not seem you are a big fan of his. Look we all agree he needs to earn his spot but im not gonna write him off because he didnt score 20 goals in the AHL

 

[raylol16]

I think he should start but obviously not as a top 6 until he shows us something.

 

[nrf83]

I think he should start but obviously not as a top 6 until he shows us something.

He doesn't have to show us ****, but Torts is a different story. I'm just worried about him playing w/Brad and Gabby, that he will defer to them, and thus not take advantage of his strong suit, which is scoring. I hope he ends up on Step's line, I think he will be more comfortable and willing to use his talents better. I also hope that playing w/Nash he will learn how to use his body and get his shot off quicker.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

He doesn't have to show us ****, but Torts is a different story. I'm just worried about him playing w/Brad and Gabby, that he will defer to them, and thus not take advantage of his strong suit, which is scoring. I hope he ends up on Step's line, I think he will be more comfortable and willing to use his talents better. I also hope that playing w/Nash he will learn how to use his body and get his shot off quicker.

Id be far less concerned about who he is playing with, and far more concerned about if he can hold down a top 6 NHL forward job this season.

The notion that Kreider is some sort of sure thing is a misguided one.

 

[messiah]

All i got to say is look at the other american player that came out of collage that the numbers are a pretty close match. John leclair

 

[danman1202]

I hate excuses, but Kreider probably didn't care that much in the AHL. I doubt you'll see that kind of play when he's on the top 6 of the Rangers.

 

[Skrimpy]

I don't see why this is even a discussion. It was clear from the playoffs last year this kid has it. Yeah sure, great players make the play and don't need other pieces around them but there are so many other players in the league that can't cut it when they do have the right pieces around them. Some of you sound like you want the team to relegate him to a career in the minors because of a few months of poor play on a poor team. I believe those of you that are questioning him will be eating your shoes in a couple months.

 

[JCrusher*]

I don't see why this is even a discussion. It was clear from the playoffs last year this kid has it. Yeah sure, great players make the play and don't need other pieces around them but there are so many other players in the league that can't cut it when they do have the right pieces around them. Some of you sound like you want the team to relegate him to a career in the minors because of a few months of poor play on a poor team. I believe those of you that are questioning him will be eating your shoes in a couple months.

I agree also lets be honest without kreider the rangers might not even get to the second round last year. I mean people forget we were almost upset by the 8th seed senators

 

[FJB]

The kid went from college to the NHL playoffs. I can't imagine how much pressure he felt. The momentum was lost with the stupid lockout, but I think that now is the best time for him to start in a regular NHL season, especially with mentors like Nash and Richards.

 

[stan the caddy]

I agree also lets be honest without kreider the rangers might not even get to the second round last year. I mean people forget we were almost upset by the 8th seed senators

You can say the same thing about Brian Boyle.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Why is his production in the AHL seen as more important than his play in the playoffs? Just unbelievable.

Small sample sizes make certain players appear much more than they may be. Larger sample sizes and consistencty are always more important. At this point the overall sample indicates what most people think which is he is a solid but not an all world prospect at this current time who needs time to develop several key aspects of his game still. That's a very fair analysis and leaves room to acknowledge his flaws while also saying look there's something here clearly

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Small sample sizes make certain players appear much more than they may be. Larger sample sizes and consistencty are always more important. At this point the overall sample indicates what most people think which is he is a solid but not an all world prospect at this current time who needs time to develop several key aspects of his game still. That's a very fair analysis and leaves room to acknowledge his flaws while also saying look there's something here clearly

Your clear, level-headed analysis has no place here, damn you.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Look at my posts when he was doing well. Was that acknowledged? Yes. But when he did poorly, what am I supposed to say?

Every response to "Kreider has struggled in the AHL" has been excuse making using irrelevant statements that have nothing to do with his AHL performance. Why is it ok to acknowledge when others are struggling, but every time you touch any team's top prospect, fans get hysterical.

But now you come up with excuses why what he did with the Rangers wasn't important.