The jury is officially in: Alexis Lafreniere is a complete bust

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

He's a second wheel on his line. He's obviously not going to be a better player than Panarin having an MVP level season so far.

A 64 point pace playing with a guy having an MVP season is a really good third wheel. He's scoring at less than half Panarin's pace which is clearly unsustainable.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

A 64 point pace playing with a guy having an MVP season is a really good third wheel.

I mean he's been better than both Chytil and Trocheck, so who's the second wheel? And you do realize most of his points are 5 on 5? Panarin has a lot on the Powerplay. He doesn't get PP1 one time and the PP2 is clusterf*** usually. Why is it so hard to understand that concept for people?

 

[Levitate]

A 64 point pace playing with a guy having an MVP season is a really good third wheel. He's scoring at less than half Panarin's pace which is clearly unsustainable.

If he scores 64 it will mostly be at even strength and he doesn’t play PP1
That many points without top power play unit time is top of the league elite production
(not even saying he’s going to have a league elite even strength scoring season but again, it’s a weird situation. The rangers first unit power play is generally so good he’s not going to get a look there unless it goes cold for a decent stretch)

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I mean he's been better than both Chytil and Trocheck, so who's the second wheel? And you do realize most of his points are 5 on 5? Panarin has a lot on the Powerplay. He doesn't get PP1 one time and the PP2 is clusterf*** usually. Why is it so hard to understand that concept for people?

Over fourteen games. I'm not trashing the guy. He just has to do it. Like one time.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

If he scores 64 it will mostly be at even strength and he doesn’t play PP1
That many points without top power play unit time is top of the league elite production
(not even saying he’s going to have a league elite even strength scoring season but again, it’s a weird situation. The rangers first unit power play is generally so good he’s not going to get a look there unless it goes cold for a decent stretch)

My point is he probably won't score 64 points.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Over fourteen games. I'm not trashing the guy. He just has to do it. Like one time.

Do what? He's easily our second best forward 5 on 5 and has good production. What does he have to do be Hughes or McDavid? Well he'll never be either of those guys. He's looking like he might be a good top 6, maybe even top line player. That's not as good as was expected on draft day. So by those marks he's a disappointment. But most #1 overall don't become McDavid or Hughes. Look at Tavares he was a super hyped up player as a #1 overall and he's never reached the level of being one of the best players in the league. I think most Rangers fans have come to terms that Laf will likely never be a complete game breaking superstar. That's ok. Neither are many #1 overall guys.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Do what? He's easily our second best forward 5 on 5 and has good production. What does he have to do be Hughes or McDavid? Well he'll never be either of those guys. He's looking like he might be a good top 6, maybe even top line player. That's not as good as was expected on draft day. So by those marks he's a disappointment. But most #1 overall don't become McDavid or Hughes. Look at Tavares he was a super hyped up player as a #1 overall and he's never reached the level of being one of the best players in the league. I think most Rangers fans have come to terms that Laf will likely never be a complete game breaking superstar. That's ok. Neither are many #1 overall guys.

You're arguing a bunch of points I never made.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Still not buying it at all. Every stat I’ve been able to dig up on it has him averaging pretty solidly in the 2nd line range. And every game I’ve tuned in over the last few years (and many I have- I’ve been eager to see how he develops..) he’s had 1st/2nd level line mates. Right now he’s next to Trochek and Panarin.. that’s 3rd line level? Is there something you can show other than a blanket ‘you dont know’? Actual data backs up what I’ve observed, so you gotta come up with something better to refute that..

Watching him tonight after 1st period.. he looks exactly the same as what I’ve seen since he began in the NHL. He floats, stiff/weak legs, poor balance, not playing good positionally, had a few give aways, -1. Simply does not pass the eye test and certainly doesn’t pass the ‘stat test’ if you wanna call it that.

Tell me what I’m missing?

Do you want to tell us what these stats are that tell you he's previously been in the second line range?

Bringing up this season is irrelevant to the discussion we were having, so you are now moving the goalposts.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Crazy that 3years later it's starting to look like he might actually end up being a Jason Zucker kinda guy instead of Danton Heinen level guy and people are flexing so hard about it

Zucker had 5 points in 21 NHL games at the same point after being drafted.

 

[ponder]

He’s 22, and 2nd only to Panarin on the Rangers in even strength points and goals. Not getting much PP time at all yet, but that’ll come. He’s not gonna be a superstar, but not hard to see him maturing into a legit top line forward.

Ppl jump to conclusions too quickly, with both Laf and Byfield. Yeah, Stutzle is better than both, but they can both become very good players regardless.

 

[Ulysses31]

love these threads, bring the lolz

He’s 22, and 2nd only to Panarin on the Rangers in even strength points and goals. Not getting much PP time at all yet, but that’ll come. He’s not gonna be a superstar, but not hard to see him maturing into a legit top line forward.

Ppl jump to conclusions too quickly, with both Laf and Byfield. Yeah, Stutzle is better than both, but they can both become very good players regardless.

for sure, lesser players even longer, veleno, rasmussen on Drw didnt both get half decent until D+5 yr

 

[ORRFForever]

I'm amazed how many people want this kid to fail.

Is it a Canadian thing, a Ranger thing or a LAF thing?

 

[Grifter3511]

I'm amazed how many people want this kid to fail.

Is it a Canadian thing, a Ranger thing or a LAF thing?

I don't think it'd necessarily a 'one size fits all' but I think a lot of it boils down to people writing him off after one or two seasons, and the majority of people would rather double down than admit they were wrong.

 

[ORRFForever]

...a lot of it boils down to people writing him off after one or two seasons, and the majority of people would rather double down than admit they were wrong.

I think that's spot on.

 

[bbny]

I can't even imagine the kind of ego it takes to create this kind of know-it-all thread about a young player to a bunch of random hockey fans lmao

L thread

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Lotta Rangers fans yelling at me for saying he's a cerebral player with good hands around the crease. Again. That's not an insult.

 

[BRobMint]

I'm amazed how many people want this kid to fail

It’s the same with Slaf and Wright. It’s weird

 

[Beniersgeron]

I will paypal you $10,000 USD if he scores 40+ goals this season send your info.

Why just him? I want money too

 

[Paulinbc]

What exactly would you want from Vancouver for this bust?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Sorry, but this is just nonsense.

Talent always shines through, no matter how their team manages their usages.

Blaming Rangers or Kings management for Laf and Byfield’s mediocre careers thus far is nonsense.

Why do some sports fans always blame their management when players fail to live up to their potential? Does it make you feel better?

Team management can affect a players development to an extent but they don’t turn stars to 3rd liners or 3rd liners into stars.

I can’t believe I missed this absolute gem of HF wisdom.

Yeah, environment doesn’t play a role at all in the evolution of a thing. Let’s throw out the last 150 years of science. God makes good and bad hockey players and their fate is written. Amen.

 

[Black Tank]

Laf turned 22 a month ago and already has 239 NHL games under his belt. He's fourth in points on a stacked Rangers team and second only to Panarin in 5v5 goals. He's sound defensively (for a 22 year old forward), Laviolette trusts him, he's playing big minutes for the first time in his career, he's thriving on one of the best teams in the league and has a strong chance to win the Cup. That sure as f*** doesn't sound like a bust - it sounds like a 1OA career progression.

 

[Albatros]

Laf turned 22 a month ago and already has 239 NHL games under his belt. He's fourth in points on a stacked Rangers team and second only to Panarin in 5v5 goals. He's sound defensively (for a 22 year old forward), Laviolette trusts him, he's playing big minutes for the first time in his career, he's thriving on one of the best teams in the league and has a strong chance to win the Cup. That sure as f*** doesn't sound like a bust - it sounds like a 1OA career progression.

Typical 1OA progression would be overselling where he is by quite a lot. It's been the slowest start by a forward since Patrik Štefan really.

 

[Black Tank]

Typical 1OA progression would be overselling where he is by quite a lot. It's been the slowest start by a forward since Patrik Štefan really.

Typical 1OA progression ON A GOOD f***ING TEAM versus a horror shitshow organization that tanked for the pick.

 

[Windy River]

Do you want to tell us what these stats are that tell you he's previously been in the second line range?

Bringing up this season is irrelevant to the discussion we were having, so you are now moving the goalposts.

I don’t know where to find stats on what lines a guy has played. Does anyone know?

Subjectively I’ve seen him in far more 1/2 lines than 3rd. Objectively he has played far more 1/2 line this year than 3rd line- why is that not relevant? So if you want to make the claim that he’s been primarily 3rd liner then it’s on you to show something to support that. Anything at all??

 

[Windy River]

Over fourteen games. I'm not trashing the guy. He just has to do it. Like one time.

Exactly.

Do what? He's easily our second best forward 5 on 5 and has good production. What does he have to do be Hughes or McDavid? Well he'll never be either of those guys. He's looking like he might be a good top 6, maybe even top line player. That's not as good as was expected on draft day. So by those marks he's a disappointment. But most #1 overall don't become McDavid or Hughes. Look at Tavares he was a super hyped up player as a #1 overall and he's never reached the level of being one of the best players in the league. I think most Rangers fans have come to terms that Laf will likely never be a complete game breaking superstar. That's ok. Neither are many #1 overall guys.

Easily 2nd best 5v5 forward?? I mean I know you watch him.. but do you really watch him play?? You could put practically anybody next to Panarin and have them put up 60 pt pace. Andrew Copp is a career ~0.4ppg player and went over ppg on the dozen or so games he skated alongside Artemi.