The jury is officially in: Alexis Lafreniere is a complete bust

[blundluntman]

You realize that at the end of any season that if you take away a player's 2 or 3 best games on the scoresheet that you are talking about a player with 5-10 less points, and it changes the tenor of the discussion. No offense, but you can't do that. I don't think that's in any way in bounds to argue. The other thing you are wrong about is that if you take away his best game (like you are doing), and we just look at 6 points in 12 games, that's literally top 6 production going by last season's standards. Last season he was also top 6 (39 points in 81 games). Not by a lot, but if we are talking about the literal definition, he was in the top 192 in the league for forwards in points. This season that's only gotten better.

The false controversy is that you bring up Hughes and MacKinnon, two of the best scorers in the league as a way to prove he's not top 6. That's so far beyond a discussion of top 6.

You are correct but it's also conversely true that this early into the season, one big game can cause a player to pace for more points than they may even out with. It can go either way but I'm looking at his body of work outside this one game and it points in a different direction. Perhaps it's the turning of a new leaf. I'll admit it's possible, but imo it's not probable.

I guess to some people 39 points may be top 6 numbers, but not mine. This seems more like a matter of semantics/standards so there's no need to go back and forth over it.

Like I said before, Hughes and Mackinnon were examples of a pattern of development (I primarily referred to them because they too were somewhat late bloomers who took time to put things together), not a standard for him to reach. Lafreniere doesn't need to be as skilled/productive as them to become a top 6 or 1st line player, but there does need to be some set of skills/qualities that show he has the potential to break out and reach that stratosphere. You can point out potential qualities in any player early in their career before they break out as a top 6 or top-line player. That was my point.

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

Honestly during his draft year I figured he'd be a decent 2nd liner. Had the IQ but wasn't a real tools guy. Thought his playmaking would be better.

 

[Windy River]

He belongs in the Ryan Nugent Hopkins zone.

He's an everyday NHLer that most fans would be happy with having in their team.

He's just not one anyone wants to draft as a 1st overall pick.

RNH is and always has been a significantly more effective player than LAF.

 

[Windy River]

You realize that at the end of any season that if you take away a player's 2 or 3 best games on the scoresheet that you are talking about a player with 5-10 less points, and it changes the tenor of the discussion. No offense, but you can't do that. I don't think that's in any way in bounds to argue. The other thing you are wrong about is that if you take away his best game (like you are doing), and we just look at 6 points in 12 games, that's literally top 6 production going by last season's standards. Last season he was also top 6 (39 points in 81 games). Not by a lot, but if we are talking about the literal definition, he was in the top 192 in the league for forwards in points. This season that's only gotten better.

The false controversy is that you bring up Hughes and MacKinnon, two of the best scorers in the league as a way to prove he's not top 6. That's so far beyond a discussion of top 6.

You are missing something in the whole top-6 argument there. There are many more than 192 players that could score at a 39 pt pace. Most guys that consistently are sub 40 scorers do NOT stay top-6 for extended periods long in todays game unless they bring some major B-side to their game beyond scoring (which clearly Laf does not in any way..). Guys in that range constantly bounce between 3-4 and sometimes 2nd line. Laf has spent most of his career on 2nd line I believe. Take the stats on career top-6 players.. and you will not see Lafs numbers stacking up.

 

[TheRumble]

RNH is and always has been a significantly more effective player than LAF.

Would you be happy with an RNH on your team? Yes.

Would you want to pick RNH first overall? No.

If Lafreniere yields the same answers to those questions than he's in the RNH zone. There's no differentiation of players within that zone. I just named it the RNH zone because RNH is the best player in that zone.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You are missing something in the whole top-6 argument there. There are many more than 192 players that could score at a 39 pt pace. Most guys that consistently are sub 40 scorers do NOT stay top-6 for extended periods long in todays game unless they bring some major B-side to their game beyond scoring (which clearly Laf does not in any way..). Guys in that range constantly bounce between 3-4 and sometimes 2nd line. Laf has spent most of his career on 2nd line I believe. Take the stats on career top-6 players.. and you will not see Lafs numbers stacking up.

He has been on the third line most of his career, so you have it wrong. Your whole argument is based on thinking he's been playing a top 6 role his whole career. At no point in his career has he been a regular top 6 player for a true season.

 

[FoxyClean]

Good player, great human being, awesome teammate. He'll be alright.

 

[Windy River]

Would you be happy with an RNH on your team? Yes.

Would you want to pick RNH first overall? No.

If Lafreniere yields the same answers to those questions than he's in the RNH zone. There's no differentiation of players within that zone. I just named it the RNH zone because RNH is the best player in that zone.

That’s the ‘RNH zone’? What like.. 30-40% of active players on any given night? Pretty wide net you’ve cast there lol. Regardless, no I would not answer those the same.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Would you be happy with an RNH on your team? Yes.

Would you want to pick RNH first overall? No.

If Lafreniere yields the same answers to those questions than he's in the RNH zone. There's no differentiation of players within that zone. I just named it the RNH zone because RNH is the best player in that zone.

Besides last year.

60 point forward that plays in all situations.
Definitely would not be super happy all my first overall was him. However compared with some other firsts that happened since the year 2000. I think I'd be okay.

Now I gotta look and determine where RNH is at in My horrible list

1. Crosby McDavid Ovechkin

2. Matthews Kane Kovalchuk Mckinnon

3. Fleury Stamkos Dahlin Hughes

4. Ekblad Hischier
Tavares Hall Nash RNH



5.Erik Johnson
6.DiPietri
7.Yakupov

Going to leave LAF off the list.
Looking at this list we still gotta wait for the end but LAF is looking closer to the tier at 5. With Erik Johnson. I actually think picking RNH is atleast not throwing your pick away. Just wishing it was more. Let's just remember RNH did get 100 points.

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[Windy River]

He has been on the third line most of his career, so you have it wrong. Your whole argument is based on thinking he's been playing a top 6 role his whole career. At no point in his career has he been a regular top 6 player for a true season.

Hmm.. every game that I’ve checked he’s pretty much just had 1st/2nd minutes. Maybe I’m just missing all the games where he’s on 3rd line and only coincidentally see the ones where he’s on top-6. I just checked this season (cant find previous seasons) and he’s had 2 games on 3rd line, the rest on 2nd and 3 games on 1st line as well. He hasnt been kept as a 2nd liner ‘for a true season’ because he’s clearly not a true 2nd line caliber player. The amount of leash they’ve given him has been absurd.. but you’re suggesting he’s being held back?? I don’t buy it.

 

[boxbox]

Hes not a bust. The format under which the Rangers won the 1st overall pick was a major bust.
I am willing to bet big we will never again see a team with over 40 wins (82gp) and 10 plus games over .500 have a run at the 1st overall pick.

Nothing against the Rangers but a team with that record with as good as roster as they had that season had no business being in the lottery for the 1st overall pick let alone winning it. I believe the Rangers would been smarter to have traded the pick then to pick a player they didn't have a real need for. Had the 1st overall pick gone to a team far more in need of a "franchise" type player , to a team to be treated as such and be given every opportunity to be just that. Its hard to criticize a player who goes from top dog and top pick to limited minutes mostly on the 3rd line.

 

[TheRumble]

That’s the ‘RNH zone’? What like.. 30-40% of active players on any given night? Pretty wide net you’ve cast there lol. Regardless, no I would not answer those the same.

Yeah, the RNH Zone:

We'll remember you have to be drafted first overall to be in the zone otherwise you're right 40% of NHLers would be in the zone.

The RNH Zone: Erik Johnston, Lafreniere, RNH. If you're better than this zone you probably are the bare minimum for a 1st overall pick that would qualify as a success. Worse than this you're a bust.

 

[Casper The Soy Ghost]

Alex Laferriere - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Alex Laferriere, 2001-10-28 Chatham, NJ, USA USA. Most recently in the NHL with Los Angeles Kings. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

I think the OP mixed Alexis Lafreniere up with Alex Laferriere

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hmm.. every game that I’ve checked he’s pretty much just had 1st/2nd minutes. Maybe I’m just missing all the games where he’s on 3rd line and only coincidentally see the ones where he’s on top-6. I just checked this season (cant find previous seasons) and he’s had 2 games on 3rd line, the rest on 2nd and 3 games on 1st line as well. He hasnt been kept as a 2nd liner ‘for a true season’ because he’s clearly not a true 2nd line caliber player. The amount of leash they’ve given him has been absurd.. but you’re suggesting he’s being held back?? I don’t buy it.

Yes, no offense but you aren’t a fan of the team and don’t know what you are saying. I watch virtually every game. He’s been in the top six like 30% of the time. He got some chances, but it never lasted. He’s gotten the least leash of any 1OA in recent memory. I don’t know how that’s in any way debatable. You get guys like Bedard and Hughes that are 1st line and PP1 from the get-go. If they have 10 bad games, or in Hughes case a bad first season, it doesn’t change. Lafreniere has maybe had like 3 games in his career on PP1 and maybe like 10 games on line 1.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Hes not a bust. The format under which the Rangers won the 1st overall pick was a major bust.
I am willing to bet big we will never again see a team with over 40 wins (82gp) and 10 plus games over .500 have a run at the 1st overall pick.

Nothing against the Rangers but a team with that record with as good as roster as they had that season had no business being in the lottery for the 1st overall pick let alone winning it. I believe the Rangers would been smarter to have traded the pick then to pick a player they didn't have a real need for. Had the 1st overall pick gone to a team far more in need of a "franchise" type player , to a team to be treated as such and be given every opportunity to be just that. Its hard to criticize a player who goes from top dog and top pick to limited minutes mostly on the 3rd line.

Lafreniere was a pretty hyped up prospect at the time so it’s not surprising a team wouldn’t trade a pick like that. If he had lived up to expectations, he would’ve been a great add to a contending team, especially on an ELC.

 

[Leonardo87]

Laf has looked great. He is finally realizing what he needs to do , when playing with guys like Panarin. He could easily have more points now.

Very good sign for him.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

The phrase is “the jury is out”

 

[yrrebbor]

He's had a few good games in a row now, but OA, he's still a HUGE bust. I hope he takes the leap we need him to by being on a line with Bread.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Very few real busts in the NHL.
You can easily play 20 years just by being good at your job and LAF will get the...last LAF? as he re-invents himself over the years. I wouldn't be surprised to see a consistent 15-25 G, 20-30 A career with decent special teams play.

Nothing wrong with that, just fine.

 

[Halakitlikethat]

To me, a bust is a player who didn't even make the NHL. There is a difference between a bust and a disappointmet.

 

[Boris Zubov]

The phrase is “the jury is out”

Actually the phrase should be, "the verdict is in".

 

[Artorius Horus T]

It seems he is on his every-year-1-month-good-play, streak.
then he will disappear again.

 

[2014nyr]

It seems he is on his every-year-1-month-good-play, streak.
then he will disappear again.

alrighty then.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Actually the phrase should be, "the verdict is in".

Yes that works too.

Definitely not “the jury is in” though lol

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Is Mount Bustmore - Daigle/Yak/Laf/DiPietro ?