the 2021 draft still intriques me. After Ceulemans they drafted Svozil, Richard, Makarov, Malatesta and Rysavy. I dont know what any of those players become but there is some level of NHl potential for those guys. Im still super high on Svozil
The Jarmo Thread
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koteka
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If you would say something like “Voronkov and Marchenko were good draft picks” and leave it at that, nobody would disagree with that. But your typical post is something like “You can’t fire Jarmo because he drafted Voronkov and Marchenko and no other team in the history of the NHL has ever had a prospect pool like the Jackets have now.” Then someone points out a team that has also done a good job of drafting and you disagree and then say something like above.
Maybe you should tone down the hyperbole. Instead of saying something like “Provorov and Bean both have looked pretty good to start the season,” this is what you said in October:
You can compliment a player or a front office move without going over the top.
Fantilli was the consensus #2 pick in the draft this year. We drafted him third. To me, that does not represent some genius move by Jarmo. I can say “I think Jarmo made the correct pick at three and Fantilli is a great prospect.” I’m not going to say drafting Fantilli supports the case that Jarmo drafts better than everyone else.
Cowumbus
Registered User
They have mostly met the expectation for “hit rate” on first rounders recently.
From 2019 to present there are three teams with more first round picks than the CBJ: ANA, BUF, CHI (I ignored going back to 2018 bc it took long enough to calculate it back to 2019 draft).
You just listed 5 of the 7 1st rounders we had over that time, a 2nd rounder, a 4th rounder from 2018, and two prospects yet to play a game.
Almost like how many picks you have, and how low they are matter.
Chicago should claim Kyle Davisson as a draft wizard!
/sBedard (1)
Korchinski (1)
K. Dach (1)
Reichel (1)
Vlassic (2)
Kaiser (3)
Phillips (5)
Crevier (7)
With (1) Moore, (1) Nazar, (1) Allan, (1) Rinzel, (2) Gajan on the way!
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OK I'll say something positive. The best move Doug MacLean ever made for this club was trading up to draft Rick Nash. Bringing in Craig Patrick to make the trade of him was also a good move.
Trading Steve Mason for Bobrovsky was brilliant. As was hiring Dave King, Ken Hitchcock and Torts.
I have no problem with Jarmo going for it. If we could have gotten past Boston, we could have made it to the Final.
I'm a big fan with his last two years of draft picks.
And thank you for the cannon, the streamers and bacon on a stick.
Trading Steve Mason for Bobrovsky was brilliant. As was hiring Dave King, Ken Hitchcock and Torts.
I have no problem with Jarmo going for it. If we could have gotten past Boston, we could have made it to the Final.
I'm a big fan with his last two years of draft picks.
And thank you for the cannon, the streamers and bacon on a stick.
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Cowumbus
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Hartnell for Umberger was a masterclass transaction.
Aaaarrgghh
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It's similar for me with the 2022 draft. Ivanov looks brilliant. Dolzhenkov has really high potential. If Del Bel Belluz can be a good bottom 6 C, that looks like a pretty good haul for Columbus.
With that said, it's clear that you can't properly evaluate a draft until a few, maybe 4–5 years, later.
BB88
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- Jan 19, 2015
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Cowumbus
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Apparently you are unable to process the point I am making. Not going to keep trying to explain it to you, and you just reply with the same things. All the best man!
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koteka
Registered User
Evaluating Jackets' draft picks from 2018-2023 and comparing them to other teams' picks from that period is a pretty weak basis for any argument regarding Jarmo's drafting. A lot of these players have yet to play a single NHL game, and none of those in the NHL are finished products or have even shown how valuable they really are come playoff time. Same applies for non-Jackets draft picks, so all these bold statements about who's been worse or better than CBJ at drafting in the past 5 years is very premature and unnecessary imo.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
This is a weak argument no matter who makes it and yeah it’s been made many times by people who hold varying perspectives. I’ll guarantee you that someone you believe holds generally negative opinions of the way things are with the team has come in and said they were attacked for it.
People are going to disagree. People are going to have different reasons for the positions they hold. And we’re wall going to come in here and talk about them.
The definition of insanity is continuing this thread.
Jovavic
boohoo, Pens "fans", BOOHOO
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
The overall tone of the forum is immaterial to the poor-ness of the post of yours that I was replying to.
BB88
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- Jan 19, 2015
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Because the negativity is about to drive me off this forum completely.
All season when ever I´ve tried to bring up something positive about the team, what could be positive things to look forward they all get blown to ….
It´s damm tiring, I´d love to have good hockey talks here but the darkness this place has makes it just too negative, can´t say a damm positive thing about the team or what they´ve done without certain 2-3 posters jumping at the posts, time after time again.
So this is my CBJ forum goodbye post
We're negative because we're one of the worst teams in the league (again). And nothing seems to be changing to fix it.
I will say many high profile defensemen start out slow. I dont think we are ruining Jiricek but we may be slowing him down. I remember complaints about Hedman or even Dahlin who was racking up points but sucked in most of his defenseman duties. Even guys like Adam Larsson was given up on by a couple teams and turned into a defender every team would love, he'd be so good for us right now
Then the problem might be in the seeing.
They have all taken steps forward, this is a competitive team and very young.
That's why the negativity just appears unfounded. Yeah not winning cup this season. Future is bright. Get the injured difference makers back, fix PP , grow for a season, maybe address goaltending.
koteka
Registered User
Worst teams by points percentage:
Worst teams in the league by goal differential:
Don’t tell me this is a competitive team. This is the worst team in the Eastern Conference. Here are two objective measures that show it.
Does this team have some promising pieces? Yes. That is good.
Does this team also have the same management team in place that has made some horrible blunders recently? Yes. That is bad.
BB88
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I’ll leave it at this and then you can be as negative as you want here.
They are a rebuilding team, young rebuilding team, that shouldn’t be too hard to understand?
Nothing in changing? In that time from 2021 they’ve built one of the best prospect pools in the league and have drafted a franchise C prospect and a franchise Dprospect in that time frame. Anyone who has followed hockey understands you can’t ask them at 18-19-20y to carry a team you have to give them some time. The reason they are so bad today is that the vets aren’t good enough to carry them, but you realize the future team isn’t build around the vets? It’s build around the expectation that Fantilli, Johnson, Jiricek, Mateychuk, Werenski etc will be good enough to carry them while Jenner& Gaudreau acts as complimentary players?
So while the vets aren’t good enough to lead them today it doesn’t speak about the future team, it should just give you hope by that the kids are going to push the leaders of the todays team into more suited secondary/completementary role. Which would suggest they’d have high end talent and quality depth
Team with Jenner as 1C is never going to be good enough, a team with Fantilli as 1C can be good enough.
Team with Blankenburg as 1RD can never be good enough, a team with Jiricek as 1RD has potential to be good enough.
Team with Laine& Gaudreau as the go to offensive guys from the W isn’t good enough. A team with Johnson, Marchenko, Gaudreau, (Laine) can be good enogh from the W.
”But but nothing is changing” Wake up, change takes time, it doesn’t happen in a second. This isn’t a market that can buy it’s talent like the Rangers, they have to draft and develop and it takes years.
As shown by below
People have no problem here praising Detroits rebuild that started in 2017 and are looking to miss the playoffs again but love to destroy a rebuild with a better prospect pool while starting 4 years later.
People hate Gubransson deal yet never mention Detroit signing Chiarot to a same deal at the same time
People praise Devils rebuild in comp vs Columbus rebuild and ignore it took forever for them to get it right (atleast for 1 season) and 2 1st overall picks and a 2nd overall pick during that timeframe.
I already know the thoughts/replies this post will get so I won’t even bother coming to read them.
It takes some mind twisting to think nothing is going to change when you look back when they started in 2021 and today. The future C and Dgroups are like nothing alike. It’s like looking at an ahl lineup vs nhl lineup in talent difference
So in short
They aren’t failing today because the kids don’t have enough potential, they are failing today because the vets aren’t good enough to be the core. The good news is the core and the team isn’t build around todays vets.
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koteka
Registered User
The Chiarot comp has been brought up numerous times. I myself have brought it up when arguing that Jarmo built a team where the toughest guy was Peeke, and the next off season he realized his mistake so he paid a contract similar to Chiarot for Gudbranson. One of my biggest criticisms of Jarmo is he is too reactive, and I don’t thing he has a plan to build a team that can compete for Cups. He should never have let the team get to the point where he had to go after Gudbranson and trade for Olivier. Just like he should never have let the defense get this bad.
But we are talking about people bringing up Chiarot as a comp for Gudbranson. Here is another example. I couldn’t + Quote it, so here is a picture.
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When the discussion turned to drafted defensive dmen awhile back, I think people forget that's EXACTLY why Svozil was drafted. Before he developed chemistry with Bedard, his point production was not something that stood out for him. His offense absolutely flourished in Regina, but it's not his greatest strength by far.
Wait are people still complaining about Gudbranson and his deal? Smh
People keep wondering why there is no interaction on social media lately within the CBJ communities. Even here the game threads are not even getting past 2-3 pages while the game is going on. Its pretty much the raw negativity has ran large portions of the people off as when someone wants to post a positive they get swarmed with "WE ARE NOT WINNING WHY YOU EXCITED YOU CASUAL LOSER" to the point people learn not to post anymore unless its negative and thus you created an echo chamber. There are plenty of positives to take away lately, look at Fantilli's game compared to how he was playing in October as he gets used to the league...but no people rather complain about what is a sell out and even for the social media team to quit being so positive and "tell us like how it is".
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