The Jarmo Thread

[DarkandStormy]

Remember when Gerard Gallant was interviewed twice but didn't live up to the "Lars Bars?" Now he's taken his team, in his first year, to the Eastern Conference Finals...a team that was largely predicted to barely make the playoffs back in October (a lot of 3rd, 4th, and 5th place predictions).

Remember when the Rangers were up front and honest about doing a rebuild in 2018? They drafted three times in the 1st round in 2018, added a 1st OA pick, did hit a home run, fired their GM & coach...and now they're in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Not saying the two situations are the same, no two situations are. But interesting that those who insist a "reload" is better than a "rebuild" don't seem to want to point out that sometimes rebuilding does pay off. Of course, sometimes it doesn't (see: Buffalo, Arizona).

 

[VT]

Remember when Gerard Gallant was interviewed twice but didn't live up to the "Lars Bars?" Now he's taken his team, in his first year, to the Eastern Conference Finals...a team that was largely predicted to barely make the playoffs back in October (a lot of 3rd, 4th, and 5th place predictions).

Remember when the Rangers were up front and honest about doing a rebuild in 2018? They drafted three times in the 1st round in 2018, added a 1st OA pick, did hit a home run, fired their GM & coach...and now they're in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Not saying the two situations are the same, no two situations are. But interesting that those who insist a "reload" is better than a "rebuild" don't seem to want to point out that sometimes rebuilding does pay off. Of course, sometimes it doesn't (see: Buffalo, Arizona).

Rangers have Shesterkin, Zibanejad, Fox and Trouba. They didn't draft a single one in the top 10.The team has especially been healthy (key players). In the PO they played against Pens who were missing Jarry, the second goalie, Dumoulin, Rakell in two games Crosby also. I don't count the last game, players didn't come in healthy. In the Carolina series Shesterkin played great, which couldn't be said for Raanta and especially Kochetkov. Don't forget they acquired Copp and Vatrano before PO. And now a question like this. How would Rangers look if they still had at least two key players injured and no Shesterkin in the net? Compare two incomparable situations.

 

[LJ7]

Remember when Gerard Gallant was interviewed twice but didn't live up to the "Lars Bars?" Now he's taken his team, in his first year, to the Eastern Conference Finals...a team that was largely predicted to barely make the playoffs back in October (a lot of 3rd, 4th, and 5th place predictions).

Remember when the Rangers were up front and honest about doing a rebuild in 2018? They drafted three times in the 1st round in 2018, added a 1st OA pick, did hit a home run, fired their GM & coach...and now they're in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Not saying the two situations are the same, no two situations are. But interesting that those who insist a "reload" is better than a "rebuild" don't seem to want to point out that sometimes rebuilding does pay off. Of course, sometimes it doesn't (see: Buffalo, Arizona).

I don't think there are any lessons to be learned from NYR, at least within this context.

1. Lafreneire was a 10th -> 1st lottery win. Is finishing 10th worst (during a so-called "rebuild" nonetheless) not what you're advocating against?

2. Panarin and Fox (whom you could argue are their best 2 skaters) fell in to their lap. This was probably the most important factor of their "rebuild".

3. You want us to rebuild but also wanted Gallant? Are you sure you just aren't in a general bad mood these just seem like general complaints with no coherent suggestion of what we should have done instead. There's nothing wrong with gripes about our team and its direction, but the NYR comparisons just don't make sense to me. I think your points about CBJ would stand on their own better without the NYR angle.

I honestly think the Rangers offseason sucked (Blais getting Subban'd kindof prevents a fair verdict from being reached though) and they were on track to be a first round exit until the trade deadline. Motte, Vatrano and especially Copp have been huge for them. If there's any lesson we can maybe apply to this team it's that. Next time we're buyers at the deadline if we can have similar additions for similar prices it would be fantastic.

 

[Monk]

I don't think there are any lessons to be learned from NYR, at least within this context.

1. Lafreneire was a 10th -> 1st lottery win. Is finishing 10th worst (during a so-called "rebuild" nonetheless) not what you're advocating against?

2. Panarin and Fox (whom you could argue are their best 2 skaters) fell in to their lap. This was probably the most important factor of their "rebuild".

3. You want us to rebuild but also wanted Gallant? Are you sure you just aren't in a general bad mood these just seem like general complaints with no coherent suggestion of what we should have done instead. There's nothing wrong with gripes about our team and its direction, but the NYR comparisons just don't make sense to me. I think your points about CBJ would stand on their own better without the NYR angle.

I honestly think the Rangers offseason sucked (Blais getting Subban'd kindof prevents a fair verdict from being reached though) and they were on track to be a first round exit until the trade deadline. Motte, Vatrano and especially Copp have been huge for them. If there's any lesson we can maybe apply to this team it's that. Next time we're buyers at the deadline if we can have similar additions for similar prices it would be fantastic.

Plus they're most likely just going to be saying the same things we are

"Well, we lost to the eventual Stanley Cup champs, so that's good"

 

[koteka]

We are never going to have the advantages the Rangers have. What stands out to me with the Rangers is that JD was part of a group that was building a team with a lot of skill and no grit, and the owner fired people and added some grit. And, even though he was mocked for doing that, the Rangers are now a better team because of it.

 

[VT]

I don't think there are any lessons to be learned from NYR, at least within this context.

1. Lafreneire was a 10th -> 1st lottery win. Is finishing 10th worst (during a so-called "rebuild" nonetheless) not what you're advocating against?

2. Panarin and Fox (whom you could argue are their best 2 skaters) fell in to their lap. This was probably the most important factor of their "rebuild".

3. You want us to rebuild but also wanted Gallant? Are you sure you just aren't in a general bad mood these just seem like general complaints with no coherent suggestion of what we should have done instead. There's nothing wrong with gripes about our team and its direction, but the NYR comparisons just don't make sense to me. I think your points about CBJ would stand on their own better without the NYR angle.

I honestly think the Rangers offseason sucked (Blais getting Subban'd kindof prevents a fair verdict from being reached though) and they were on track to be a first round exit until the trade deadline. Motte, Vatrano and especially Copp have been huge for them. If there's any lesson we can maybe apply to this team it's that. Next time we're buyers at the deadline if we can have similar additions for similar prices it would be fantastic.

Still one:

Kreider /31/ -- Zibanejad /29/ -- Vatrano /28/
Panarin /31/ -- Strome /28/ - Copp /27/
Lafreniere /20/ -- Chytil /23/ -- Kakko /21/
Motte /27/ -- Goodrow /29/ -- Reaves /35/

Lindgren /24/, Fox /24/
Miller /22/, Trouba /28/
Braun /35/, Schneider /21/

Shesterkin /27/

----------
Probably lines before and during the season (I know they were often other but because of injuries we didn't normal lines):

Nyquist /33/ -- Jenner /29/ -- Laine /24/
Chinakhov /21/ -- Sillinger /19/ -- Voracek /33/
Domi /27/ -- Roslovic /25/ -- Bjorkstrand /27/
Robinson /27/ -- Kuraly /29/ -- Texier /23/

Werenski /25/, Bean /24/
Gavrikov /27/, Boqvist /22/
Carlsson /25/, Peeke /24/

Merzlikins /28/

But (if only key players):

Texier - 36 games (-46)
Laine - 56 games (-26)
Jenner - 59 games (-23)
Robinson - 67 games (-15)

Domi was traded

Boqvist - 52 games (-30)
Bean - 67 games (-15)
Werenski - 68 games (-14)

Rangers except Kakko - 43 games (-39) and Chytil - 67 games (-15) didn't have similar problems. Also these players weren't key in the regular season.

Shesterkin was fit.

 

[VT]

And in the next season:
+ Johnson /20/, probably Marchenko /22/, if our pick will show his qualities like Sillinger /18/
When I imagine Gallant with his run and shoot... .

 

[DougKnowsBest]

When I watch the rangers play….. I have a hard time determining what gallant is influencing. Is he pushing things in a direction or just keeping things from going off the rails.

And does either really matter as long as they are winning?

But, cobd, I think Lars is better teacher for sure. And that’s what we need right now

 

[BB88]

Rangers haven’t been a good 5on5 team this year.
Special teams and Igor have carried them.

Anyways you can’t compare other teams to New York Rangers.
They will always have the desired destination benefit over others

 

[DarkandStormy]

I don't think there are any lessons to be learned from NYR, at least within this context.

1. Lafreneire was a 10th -> 1st lottery win. Is finishing 10th worst (during a so-called "rebuild" nonetheless) not what you're advocating against?

2. Panarin and Fox (whom you could argue are their best 2 skaters) fell in to their lap. This was probably the most important factor of their "rebuild".

3. You want us to rebuild but also wanted Gallant? Are you sure you just aren't in a general bad mood these just seem like general complaints with no coherent suggestion of what we should have done instead. There's nothing wrong with gripes about our team and its direction, but the NYR comparisons just don't make sense to me. I think your points about CBJ would stand on their own better without the NYR angle.

I honestly think the Rangers offseason sucked (Blais getting Subban'd kindof prevents a fair verdict from being reached though) and they were on track to be a first round exit until the trade deadline. Motte, Vatrano and especially Copp have been huge for them. If there's any lesson we can maybe apply to this team it's that. Next time we're buyers at the deadline if we can have similar additions for similar prices it would be fantastic.

1) It was more a comment about how laughably dumb the "Lars Bars" stuff was last summer. That said, I will acknowledge the Jackets were almost universally picked to finish 7th or 8th in the Metro. So they did "overperform" expectations, much like the Rangers did and have this season.

2) The Rangers finished 8th, 6th, and 7th in the Metro (lost in the qualifying round of the Bubble), and then 5th in the re-done divisions last year when they bottomed out. They're almost "ahead" of schedule of a normal rebuild. I think part of that is Gallant but also having a Vezina-winning goalie can cover some things up. The Buchnevich-Reaves deal looked hilariously bad at the time.

3) Meanwhile, the Jackets, since the 108 point, PDO-fueled 2016-2017 season, have gone 3rd (that season), 4th, 5th, 6th in the Metro, 8th in the re-done Central, and 6th in the Metro.

4) We did do what the Rangers did this trade deadline in 2019 with Duchene, Dzingel, McQuaid, and Kinkaid. The difference was we were a bubble team with a bunch of free agents who weren't going to re-sign, whereas the Rangers will keep most of their core players and are building.

5) I agree with your assessment - the Rangers seemed like one of the weaker upper echelon Eastern Conference teams if you were making playoff predictions. But having the best goalie in the world go .928 through two series can get you far. He's been one of the two best goalies in the playoffs.

Anyway, the Rangers went through what would have been four seasons without the playoffs, but for the Bubble, and were up front with their fans that they were blowing it up. The Jackets weren't on track for the playoffs in 2020, so this would be year three of no playoffs. If you think they're following a similar trajectory (and, as you said, there are plenty of differences between the two), then look out for the Jackets riding a hot goalie to the ECF in 2024.

 

[MoeBartoli]

I like how Jarmo has handled the retool so far. Despite me being a higher gallant guy, I agree with Dougknowsbest saying Lars is probably the better teacher. No the proof in the pudding will be in results.

We know what we have in Laine Jenner Bjorkstrand and hopefully Roslovic. The success will be determined by the development of Sillinger, Johnson, Chinakov, Texier and the two draft picks, the development of the young DMen (including Ceulemans), whether either Elvis/Tarasov are a top flight netminder and one home run trade. Also Jarmo may have to “call an audible“ along the wa. Now that’s a lot that has to hit, but it’s the right approach to retooling in my mind. But whether it’s successful should be known in the next two years.

 

[LJ7]

1) It was more a comment about how laughably dumb the "Lars Bars" stuff was last summer. That said, I will acknowledge the Jackets were almost universally picked to finish 7th or 8th in the Metro. So they did "overperform" expectations, much like the Rangers did and have this season.

2) The Rangers finished 8th, 6th, and 7th in the Metro (lost in the qualifying round of the Bubble), and then 5th in the re-done divisions last year when they bottomed out. They're almost "ahead" of schedule of a normal rebuild. I think part of that is Gallant but also having a Vezina-winning goalie can cover some things up. The Buchnevich-Reaves deal looked hilariously bad at the time.

3) Meanwhile, the Jackets, since the 108 point, PDO-fueled 2016-2017 season, have gone 3rd (that season), 4th, 5th, 6th in the Metro, 8th in the re-done Central, and 6th in the Metro.

4) We did do what the Rangers did this trade deadline in 2019 with Duchene, Dzingel, McQuaid, and Kinkaid. The difference was we were a bubble team with a bunch of free agents who weren't going to re-sign, whereas the Rangers will keep most of their core players and are building.

5) I agree with your assessment - the Rangers seemed like one of the weaker upper echelon Eastern Conference teams if you were making playoff predictions. But having the best goalie in the world go .928 through two series can get you far. He's been one of the two best goalies in the playoffs.

Anyway, the Rangers went through what would have been four seasons without the playoffs, but for the Bubble, and were up front with their fans that they were blowing it up. The Jackets weren't on track for the playoffs in 2020, so this would be year three of no playoffs. If you think they're following a similar trajectory (and, as you said, there are plenty of differences between the two), then look out for the Jackets riding a hot goalie to the ECF in 2024.

1. I don't think that was laughably dumb or anything. I suspect Gallant wasn't even a real option for us. Larsen did fine this season but we'll learn a lot more about how good he is next season.

2. They're ahead of schedule because Fox and Panarin went there. They kept their options semi - open and took advantage of whatever the market gave them without having to strictly abide by their "rebuild". Sounds a lot like what our team wants to do philosophically.

4. To me NYR's deadline was so much better in terms of value added for the price. Vatrano is playing on their top line, Copp is on their second. For what they paid that is incredible.

So the things NYR did that you wish we did are: "bottom out" and call the process a "rebuild" instead of a "retool" ? I don't get it

Jarmo specifically defined a rebuild as trading everyone, scorched Earth, sell good players out and start over. To me that read as everything short of trading Werenski, Bjorkstrand, Laine, etc is a retool/reset to him. Actions matter more than the phrasing. If you think Bjorkstrand isn't worth keeping, Werenski isn't worth resigning, and Laine isn't worth extending then that that makes sense I suppose. The more I type about this the more I realize NYR's situation and ours could not be more different. JD probably felt like he was working an entirely different job in NY. I mean Panarin left here and signed there, that's about as opposite as you can get.

All that said I do think that this board and me especially are too harsh on those who aren't as optimistic about where the team is going. However in my defense complaints about the team usually come in a very strange package that includes some nonsense point about what Doug MacLean did in 2006 or a comparison to some other team that has nothing in common with us. Not to mention the fantasy world "bottom out but keep all of our good players on long term deals while we absolutely suck" wishes. I guess my point is that complaints about the team's direction and current state stand on their own better without including low hanging fruit that us optimistic folks can "attack".

Another thing is even if complaints are valid it's hard to set up a good argument against where the team is going (maybe that means I'm right) just due to circumstances with the team right now. Wanting the team blown up means you want to just tank to try and get players of Laine, Werenski, and Bjorkstrand's caliber when they're already in house. At this stage of the retool it's almost impossible to critique it since it can't be tested yet. If the retool fails it will be extremely easy to critique. It's more of a matter of timing than right or wrong right now.

In my opinion at the juncture of 2020-21 a retool was the only sensible option available to the FO. The team already had a high pick that year, and had a decent enough foundation of young guys leftover from the previous iteration of the team. I have a lot more time for criticism of the execution of the retool than criticism of the choice to do one.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I’m not necessarily considering Jarmo’s work in comparison to other GMs but just based on what he’s done here.

I think it’s reasonable to call it into question, despite the fact that I like the new foundation of young players. But this is his second foundation of a core to grow into, and most of those guys are gone — Wennberg, Jones, Sonny, Dubois for example - without a deep playoff run.

Yes, I realize they lost to eventual champs. Yes, I realize other teams have had the same results or worse.

But this group has about two years to really start showing something or maybe it’s time to let someone start on Jarmo’s second base.

 

[LJ7]

But this group has about two years to really start showing something or maybe it’s time to let someone start on Jarmo’s second base.

This is exactly what I was trying to say but phrased a lot more effectively. Time is currently on Jarmo's side so it's hard to knock him, but when the time comes for the team to actually perform his doubters will have a much easier job.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

This is exactly what I was trying to say but phrased a lot more effectively. Time is currently on Jarmo's side so it's hard to knock him, but when the time comes for the team to actually perform his doubters will have a much easier job.

Exactly. There’s almost no value in calling/hoping for Jarmo to be replaced at this juncture. He’s clearly guiding the current rebuild or whatever anyone wants to call it. There’s a plan at work here and it’s going to play out.

 

[Hello Johnny]

I think Jarmo played the first hand he was dealt pretty well. I think he was dealt a new hand when Dubois and Jones had to be traded, and so far has played that well too. We'll see how long he can stay at the table but for now he's in.

 

[Viqsi]

All that said I do think that this board and me especially are too harsh on those who aren't as optimistic about where the team is going.

There have been times when I don't think it's harsh enough.

I don't think folks really, truly, deeply understand how incredibly rare high quality personnel are and how much their success depends as much as or even more on good fortune as it does their capability and sagacity, and how incredibly easy it is to fumble when replacing someone and thus make the situation so much worse. There's just so much simple-minded "well, success hasn't happened, therefore clearly Person X is Bad, and we should get a Person Y who is Good, and success will follow because Good" thinking and reasoning out there in so many of these arguments.

A good, quality GM can still end up without the confluence of opportunities and fortune ever appearing such that they don't look so great. A bad GM will never even notice the silver platter in front of their face. And we're already facing an uphill battle because we're in among teams and organizations that have head starts on us of anywhere from thirty to forty to nearly a hundred years in advance of us to build followings and goodwill and histories to lean on.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

For everyone who mocked "brick by brick" or groaned when we brought back/extended JD and Jarmo, you should look no further than JD's previous stop as a reason to feel optimistic.

The Rangers are (likely) going to the Finals. Unseating the seemingly unbeatable Lightning, who destroyed uber GM Bill Zito's Panthers and won a tough 7 game series against Toronto. One of the most important people to oversee this sudden turnaround for the NYR? JD.

Now of course the Rangers got quite a few breaks along the way. Panarin dropped in their lap and he even gave them a slight discount. Fox and Lafrienere also dropped right into their lap with some luck/advantages in the CBA. That's an incredible run of luck and fortune that we can't count on happening for us.

However, even though those are massive points of their rebuild. Let me paint a picture.

Rangers signal a rebuild was coming and trade away captain and beloved Ryan McDonagh away for futures. They also give away JT Miller, and other UFA's to be. Long time legendary goalie Lundqvist retires, and the new Rangers regime brings in a young coach who they think will help install a winning attitude and develop young guys. They have a few rough seasons and get some top picks, including lucking into 2nd overall. They stock up on high end picks for a few years and get moving on stocking the cuppboard, including one year with three first round picks. They have a few kids develop fast and are on the radar to make big impacts in the NHL. Things don't always go according to plan though, and the Rangers are seen as a soft skilled easy to push around team. Knowing this they set out to make changes to get bigger and tougher to protect the young kids and the stars. They also fire the "developmental" regime and put in place new guys that want to win now, including one of the best coaches in the league.

Sounds pretty familiar to me.

Jackets signal a rebuild is coming after a tough year and trade away captain and beloved Nick Foligno for futures. They also trade away David Savard and other pieces that aren't fitting in the long term model of the team. Seth Jones signals he won't re-sign and it further kick starts the incoming rebuild with many futures incoming. CBJ fire long time coach Tortorella and signal a new culture needs to be set in place. They bring in Larsen to help develop the young guys. Jackets overperform many expectations with skill and scoring but are largely seen as a team that is weak and small. They miss the playoffs but believe they are on the right track, but need to get bigger and tougher. Jackets have 3 first round picks to show for their first year of struggles including a top 5 pick. They also have another year of multiple first round picks, both within the top 15 and one within the top 6.

I think JD is having us follow the NYR rebuild path. And although we don't have a Panarin or a Fox to help speed things up, I don't think we're that far away from competing. And for that I think both JD and Jarmo have done a good job to get this thing back in motion.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

For everyone who mocked "brick by brick" or groaned when we brought back/extended JD and Jarmo, you should look no further than JD's previous stop as a reason to feel optimistic.

The Rangers are (likely) going to the Finals. Unseating the seemingly unbeatable Lightning, who destroyed uber GM Bill Zito's Panthers and won a tough 7 game series against Toronto. One of the most important people to oversee this sudden turnaround for the NYR? JD.

Now of course the Rangers got quite a few breaks along the way. Panarin dropped in their lap and he even gave them a slight discount. Fox and Lafrienere also dropped right into their lap with some luck/advantages in the CBA. That's an incredible run of luck and fortune that we can't count on happening for us.

However, even though those are massive points of their rebuild. Let me paint a picture.

Rangers signal a rebuild was coming and trade away captain and beloved Ryan McDonagh away for futures. They also give away JT Miller, and other UFA's to be. Long time legendary goalie Lundqvist retires, and the new Rangers regime brings in a young coach who they think will help install a winning attitude and develop young guys. They have a few rough seasons and get some top picks, including lucking into 2nd overall. They stock up on high end picks for a few years and get moving on stocking the cuppboard, including one year with three first round picks. They have a few kids develop fast and are on the radar to make big impacts in the NHL. Things don't always go according to plan though, and the Rangers are seen as a soft skilled easy to push around team. Knowing this they set out to make changes to get bigger and tougher to protect the young kids and the stars. They also fire the "developmental" regime and put in place new guys that want to win now, including one of the best coaches in the league.

Sounds pretty familiar to me.

Jackets signal a rebuild is coming after a tough year and trade away captain and beloved Nick Foligno for futures. They also trade away David Savard and other pieces that aren't fitting in the long term model of the team. Seth Jones signals he won't re-sign and it further kick starts the incoming rebuild with many futures incoming. CBJ fire long time coach Tortorella and signal a new culture needs to be set in place. They bring in Larsen to help develop the young guys. Jackets overperform many expectations with skill and scoring but are largely seen as a team that is weak and small. They miss the playoffs but believe they are on the right track, but need to get bigger and tougher. Jackets have 3 first round picks to show for their first year of struggles including a top 5 pick. They also have another year of multiple first round picks, both within the top 15 and one within the top 6.

I think JD is having us follow the NYR rebuild path. And although we don't have a Panarin or a Fox to help speed things up, I don't think we're that far away from competing. And for that I think both JD and Jarmo have done a good job to get this thing back in motion.

I agree and I hesitate to bring this up here because it’s not the Elvis thread but he’s the key to everything regarding the pace of the rebuild/competitiveness.

That said, I’m reiterating my recent point that they have two years. I’m willing to reevaluate based on information not available at this time, but generally speaking the team has better be into the second round of the 23-24 season playoffs.

 

[majormajor]

For everyone who mocked "brick by brick" or groaned when we brought back/extended JD and Jarmo, you should look no further than JD's previous stop as a reason to feel optimistic.

The Rangers are (likely) going to the Finals. Unseating the seemingly unbeatable Lightning, who destroyed uber GM Bill Zito's Panthers and won a tough 7 game series against Toronto. One of the most important people to oversee this sudden turnaround for the NYR? JD.

Now of course the Rangers got quite a few breaks along the way. Panarin dropped in their lap and he even gave them a slight discount. Fox and Lafrienere also dropped right into their lap with some luck/advantages in the CBA. That's an incredible run of luck and fortune that we can't count on happening for us.

However, even though those are massive points of their rebuild. Let me paint a picture.

Rangers signal a rebuild was coming and trade away captain and beloved Ryan McDonagh away for futures. They also give away JT Miller, and other UFA's to be. Long time legendary goalie Lundqvist retires, and the new Rangers regime brings in a young coach who they think will help install a winning attitude and develop young guys. They have a few rough seasons and get some top picks, including lucking into 2nd overall. They stock up on high end picks for a few years and get moving on stocking the cuppboard, including one year with three first round picks. They have a few kids develop fast and are on the radar to make big impacts in the NHL. Things don't always go according to plan though, and the Rangers are seen as a soft skilled easy to push around team. Knowing this they set out to make changes to get bigger and tougher to protect the young kids and the stars. They also fire the "developmental" regime and put in place new guys that want to win now, including one of the best coaches in the league.

Sounds pretty familiar to me.

Jackets signal a rebuild is coming after a tough year and trade away captain and beloved Nick Foligno for futures. They also trade away David Savard and other pieces that aren't fitting in the long term model of the team. Seth Jones signals he won't re-sign and it further kick starts the incoming rebuild with many futures incoming. CBJ fire long time coach Tortorella and signal a new culture needs to be set in place. They bring in Larsen to help develop the young guys. Jackets overperform many expectations with skill and scoring but are largely seen as a team that is weak and small. They miss the playoffs but believe they are on the right track, but need to get bigger and tougher. Jackets have 3 first round picks to show for their first year of struggles including a top 5 pick. They also have another year of multiple first round picks, both within the top 15 and one within the top 6.

I think JD is having us follow the NYR rebuild path. And although we don't have a Panarin or a Fox to help speed things up, I don't think we're that far away from competing. And for that I think both JD and Jarmo have done a good job to get this thing back in motion.

On the other hand...

The Rangers drafted Lias Andersson 7th OA in 2017, Kravtsov 9th OA the next year, and Kakko 2nd OA the year after that. That level of f---uppery could doom a less fortunate organization.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

On the other hand...

The Rangers drafted Lias Andersson 7th OA in 2017, Kravtsov 9th OA the next year, and Kakko 2nd OA the year after that. That level of f---uppery could doom a less fortunate organization.

Not every swing of the bat is going to get you a home run. When you have multiple years of multiple first round picks, your margin of error increases. Plus, Kakko is playing very well in this Tampa series and has more to give. It could be worse

 

[majormajor]

Not every swing of the bat is going to get you a home run. When you have multiple years of multiple first round picks, your margin of error increases. Plus, Kakko is playing very well in this Tampa series and has more to give. It could be worse

Another way to look at it -

The Jackets had 3 top ten picks from 2011-2020 and got Murray, Werenski, and Dubois out of it. That was critical for an organization that doesn't get freebies.

The Rangers had 3 top ten picks from 2017-2019 and can't even staff a 4th line with it.

When I try to imagine the Rangers without Shestyerkin, Fox, and Panarin, I see a bottom 10 organization in the NHL. They inherited Shesty from the 2014 draft when Glen Sather was still the GM. Fox and Panarin gifted themselves to the team. KAM is really good and Laf is playing better now, but generally speaking the players they've drafted from 2015 onward aren't very good and aren't playing a big role in turning around the franchise.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Another way to look at it -

The Jackets had 3 top ten picks from 2011-2020 and got Murray, Werenski, and Dubois out of it. That was critical for an organization that doesn't get freebies.

The Rangers had 3 top ten picks from 2017-2019 and can't even staff a 4th line with it.

When I try to imagine the Rangers without Shestyerkin, Fox, and Panarin, I see a bottom 10 organization in the NHL. They inherited Shesty from the 2014 draft when Glen Sather was still the GM. Fox and Panarin gifted themselves to the team. KAM is really good and Laf is playing better now, but generally speaking the players they've drafted from 2015 onward aren't very good and aren't playing a big role in turning around the franchise.

They’ve made great moves to compensate for their down drafts. And plus, you’re giving up on (or implying) Kakko too soon.

Just because they inherited Shesterkin from another tenure doesn’t mean they didn’t do a job in developing him.

 

[VT]

Not every swing of the bat is going to get you a home run. When you have multiple years of multiple first round picks, your margin of error increases. Plus, Kakko is playing very well in this Tampa series and has more to give. It could be worse

Right now we seem to have better draft picks/trades.

2015 - Werenski, Roslovic (trade), Carlsson, Gavrikov,
2016 - Laine (trade), Peeke
2017 - Texier, Tarasov, Bemstrom, Meyer
2018 - Foudy, Marchenko
2019 - Voronkov, Fix-Wolanski
2020 - Chinakhov, Knažko, Pyyhtiä, Holm
2021 - Johnson, Sillinger, Ceulemans, Svozil, Richard, Makarov, Malatesta, Boyd, Ryšavý

The last three years I wrote all of them.

 

[NotWendell]

Jarmo is always right on the cusp. On the cusp of being brilliant or on the cusp of getting fired. One of these days, we'll know which one.