The Jarmo Thread

[DarkandStormy]

10 years, 1 playoff series win.

Do you have faith in Jarmo? 10 years is a very long time, and to me we are basically in the same place as when he took over.

Welcome to the dark side.

Here are the list of NHL GMs who have held their position longer than Jarmo has:
-David Poile (Preds), made a Cup Final, 15 playoff appearances in the last 18 eligible seasons, including the last 8 consecutive seasons, 7 playoff series wins since 2010
-Doug Armstrong (Blues), won a Cup in 2019, playoff appearances in 10 of the last 11 seasons, including the last four consecutive, 8 playoff series wins in his tenure (since 2010)
-Kevin Cheveldayoff (Jets), 5 playoff appearances in the last 7 seasons (not counting the current season), including four straight postseasons before missing this year, 3 playoff series wins, including a Conference Finals appearance in 2018

That's it. That's the list. How do one in five fans have a "jury is still out" opinion on a guy who has been here over 9 years?

By the way, the list of GMs just after Jarmo for longest tenured?
-Jim Nill (Stars), 5 playoff appearances in 9 seasons, including a Cup Final appearance in 2020, 5 playoff series wins and now playoff appearances in 3 of the last 4 seasons
-Brad Treliving (Flames), 5 playoff appearances in 8 seasons, won one series in 2015 and the qualifying round matchup in The Bubble, playoffs now in 3 of the last 4 seasons
-Brian MacLellan (Capitals), playoffs in every season he's been GM (they missed the year before he took over), so that's 8 straight playoff appearances, including a Cup in 2018, 7 playoff series wins
-Joe Sakic (Avalanche), now 5 straight playoff appearances, including a President's Trophy last season, three playoff series wins, all in the last three seasons, and has built the oddsmaker's favorite for the Cup this season

Btw, Jarmo's resume: 5 playoff appearances in 9 seasons (if we're counting The Bubble), none in the last two seasons, one playoff series win in 2019 and qualifying round win in The Bubble.

Management has obviously committed to him for this Rebuild/Reload, but if we don't start seeing improvement next season and playoffs by 2024, it's time for him to go.

 

[MoeBartoli]

My vote was in that 75%. The four years of making the playoffs was a huge step for a franchise that had previously experienced it only once We now are (rightfully) in a retool and this year revealed many positives in the process. the process has included some excellent moves by Jarmo. In no particular order:
* He garnered excellent returns in the Foligno and Savard trades
* Dealt a bad hand by Dubois, getting Laine and Ros in the trade was making lemonade out of bad lemons
* Getting the assets he did for Jones was a steal
* Hiring Lars (against my wishes) looks to be a good move
* Seeing Cam go was sad, but trading him for Voracek was a good move
* Drafting Sillinger at 12 looks like a home run and I expect Johnson will become a core piece
* Jarmo may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat in signing Blanks
* The Kuraly and Danforth signings seem like smart moves

All of these have been the right moves for a franchise undergoing this retool - moves that will keep us from the type of rebuilds seen in Buffalo, Arizona, Ottawa to name a few. Now let’s see what he does in this draft and off-season trades. The Laine decision will be a big one.

Has every move been perfect? No. In hindsight he should have parted with Torts a year earlier. And the Anderson-Domi trade didn’t work out though I understand his apprehension in giving the term/money to Andy.

I’m optimistic about where we are as a franchise and am positive about Jarmo (and JD) leading the process.

 

[EspenK]

10 years, 1 playoff series win.

Do you have faith in Jarmo? 10 years is a very long time, and to me we are basically in the same place as when he took over.

Maybe a bit more than a couple of years ago but the jury is still out in my mind. The upcoming offseason is key. If he stays the course and doesn't do something stupid like add Malkin or Toews in an attempt to make the team better next season at the expense of the long term future I'll be happier with him than I was.

My biggest gripe with him is that he overvalued what he had and waited too long to get rid of guys like Foligno, Savard, et al. That goes hand in glove with him going all in rather than trading Bread & Bob. Also stayed with Torts a year too long.

Another key question is would he have made the Jones trade if Jones hadn't refused to re-sign? I'm guessing not so his genius trade kind of was forced on him. Same with PLD for Laine.

Definitely jury still out.

 

[CBJx614]

It's been over a year since I've posed the question and still haven't received a legitimate answer.

Who is out there and available who would be an upgrade on Jarmo?!


Grass ain't always greener.

 

[BB88]

Maybe a bit more than a couple of years ago but the jury is still out in my mind. The upcoming offseason is key. If he stays the course and doesn't do something stupid like add Malkin or Toews in an attempt to make the team better next season at the expense of the long term future I'll be happier with him than I was.

My biggest gripe with him is that he overvalued what he had and waited too long to get rid of guys like Foligno, Savard, et al. That goes hand in glove with him going all in rather than trading Bread & Bob. Also stayed with Torts a year too long.

Another key question is would he have made the Jones trade if Jones hadn't refused to re-sign? I'm guessing not so his genius trade kind of was forced on him. Same with PLD for Laine.

Definitely jury still out.

I think he would have prefered to keep Jones.
The ”genius” part is on what he was able to get for a player who was really looking at signing an extension with one team.

Also I think in the end Torts fiasco is going to end up as a win for Columbus looking at longterm.
Rather than trying to compete with flawed core they were forced to rebuild the roster.

Now the Torts fiasco isn’t a praise on Jarmo, it’s more of bad situation ending up as a blessing (luck).

It bought them time to do things properly

The fact is Cup winners have a 1C and now they have the ammo to really search for one, on top of rebuilding their u25 asset pool

 

[DarkandStormy]

It's been over a year since I've posed the question and still haven't received a legitimate answer.

Who is out there and available who would be an upgrade on Jarmo?!


Grass ain't always greener.

Chris MacFarland, Kevin Weekes, Mathieu Darche, Rob DiMaio, Eric Tulsky, Cammi Granato, just to name a few.

 

[Youngguns1380]

Chris MacFarland, Kevin Weekes, Mathieu Darche, Rob DiMaio, Eric Tulsky, Cammi Granato, just to name a few.

FYI - Chris McFarland worked in the CBJ front office before

 

[CBJx614]

Chris MacFarland, Kevin Weekes, Mathieu Darche, Rob DiMaio, Eric Tulsky, Cammi Granato, just to name a few.

So you'd rather an ex player turned analyst with connections with absolutely zero hockey operations experience take over for one of the better active GMs in the league? Why not just hire Rick Nash at that point? He's at least got some experience.

That sounds like you just want to make a change for the sake of making a change.

 

[majormajor]

Snore.

 

[NotWendell]

This season has moved me from Next! to The Jury's Still Out.

 

[DarkandStormy]

FYI - Chris McFarland worked in the CBJ front office before

Yes, and this franchise does love a good story. He's been an AGM with the Avs since 2015. How have they done recently?

 

[DarkandStormy]

So you'd rather an ex player turned analyst with connections with absolutely zero hockey operations experience take over for one of the better active GMs in the league?

Sorry, are you describing Weekes or John Davidson circa 2005?

Anyway, where's the evidence that Jarmo is "one of the better active GMs in the league?" He's gotten this franchise out of the first round once in 9 years. In any other market, he'd already have been canned.

 

[CBJx614]

Sorry, are you describing Weekes or John Davidson circa 2005?

Anyway, where's the evidence that Jarmo is "one of the better active GMs in the league?" He's gotten this franchise out of the first round once in 9 years. In any other market, he'd already have been canned.

John Davison isn't the GM of the organization.

Jarmo also took a took a perennial lottery contender into a perennial playoff contender, until the cornerstone pieces of the franchise forced their way out. He might bear a little bit of responsibility for that (Bob) but he can't control what city players want to be in.

He's done a damn good job given the pieces he's had to work with.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Are there really people who think that whatever limited success (through the lens of franchise history and not overall) the Jackets have had in the recent past is due to Davidson while Kekalainen is to blame for that success not being greater? You wanna hold Jarmo accountable fine, but I don't see how anyone can be all "at least we have JD".

 

[Hello Johnny]

Been a fan of Jarmo's since his scouting days in St. Louis – but I'm absolutely willing to admit the man has his faults. I'm not a huge fan of the way he's developed some of our prospects and feel as if guys like Bemstrom and Chinakhov needed seasoning in the AHL that they won't likely be getting. I'm hoping that Johnson, Marchenko, etc. will be given time in Cleveland but I have doubts.

The Anderson situation could have been handled better all the way around. And while I'm not a huge fan of Sonny Milano, trading him for Devin f***ing Shore was abysmal.

That being said, some might forget that the year before he acquired Panarin, we had the 4th best record in the league, including 50 wins and 108 points which would have taken the division titles of the Atlantic and Pacific divisions that year (and by the way, we finished with the 3rd worst record in the league the year before).

Two of the three teams ahead of us in the league standings were from our own division – Washington and Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was the defending champion, and for our great season we were rewarded with playing them in the first round. The rest is history, Pittsburgh went on to win their second Cup in as many years.

Sure, there's no series win here, but that was a great team and Jarmo doesn't get any credit for that year.

Facing the reality that we needed an assassin offensively, he then went after an elite player and got him for next to nothing.

We could debate the 2019 deadline forever. I for one am happy that the most talented team we'd ever iced was given a vote of confidence. I'll never forget that sweep of TB, which was the most fun I'd ever had as a fan of this team.

All-in-all, he's done a good job bringing a small market team to relevance and after peaking a couple years ago, has set us up for success in the coming years. If it turns out the moves he's made in the past year or so lead us nowhere, sure, it's time to look for an upgrade. But he's a good GM which don't grow on trees.

 

[majormajor]

Snore.

To add further context to my snort retort, I think the reason this discussion is especially tiresome is because we're one year into a re-set/build/tool/whatever. If you want him fired for only having 1 playoff series win, well the time to can Jarmo was a year ago. Once you set on this new course you roll with it.

Unless, of course, if the players he acquired have some issue. Are the players he traded for struggling? Well, no, much the opposite. What about the players Jarmo drafted, are they disappointing in some way? No, they're ahead of the curve. So why are we talking about this?

 

[CBJx614]

To add further context to my snort retort, I think the reason this discussion is especially tiresome is because we're one year into a re-set/build/tool/whatever. If you want him fired for only having 1 playoff series win, well the time to can Jarmo was a year ago. Once you set on this new course you roll with it.

Unless, of course, if the players he acquired have some issue. Are the players he traded for struggling? Well, no, much the opposite. What about the players Jarmo drafted, are they disappointing in some way? No, they're ahead of the curve. So why are we talking about this?

Because it's the about to be the off-season and the jackets didn't make the playoffs so there's gotta be something to complain about.

Don't worry, it'll get brought up again every single time we make a move and at the draft.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

To add further context to my snort retort, I think the reason this discussion is especially tiresome is because we're one year into a re-set/build/tool/whatever. If you want him fired for only having 1 playoff series win, well the time to can Jarmo was a year ago. Once you set on this new course you roll with it.

Unless, of course, if the players he acquired have some issue. Are the players he traded for struggling? Well, no, much the opposite. What about the players Jarmo drafted, are they disappointing in some way? No, they're ahead of the curve. So why are we talking about this?

Yep. I’d there’s one thing for sure about the next season or two, it’s Jarmo be there.

(Yes, it’s been a long time since anyone used that.)

 

[NotCommitted]

What I really like about Jarmo he's clearly not afraid to make moves and usually seems to come out top. For a team that's not exactly a destination every player wants to end up in, that's huge. On the flip side, he seems to have trouble keeping talent around, but how much of that is on him is impossible to say, except for the guys who were not going to sign pretty much no matter what.

The Torts era ran it's course and they might only have one series win to show for it, but they were in the mix most years and the year he went all in, they swept Tampa who were already the clear SC favourite and won the next two cups afterwards. If you just look at "series wins", that counts as one win just like any other, but clearly that team had potential to go all the way. They lost in the 2nd round to Bruins, who ended up in the finals and swept Carolina to get there, then to lose against Blues in a 7-game series. That's not a bad peak for a team to have, even though 2nd round exit doesn't sound impressive.

Now it's a new team and this far the retool/rebuild/whatever is going well IMO. Majormajor pretty much nailed it above, if you wanted a change the time to do that was to begin this process from a clean slate. Now it would be just super weird since things seem to be going OK and the new GM would be on a course he didn't set himself anyway. He'd have to see this through pretty much, and then possible failure could be just downplayed as past mistakes by Jarmo.

 

[Jovavic]

I think for awhile there we kept losing to teams that went on to win the Cup or at least got to the Finals

 

[majormajor]

Now it would be just super weird since things seem to be going OK and the new GM would be on a course he didn't set himself anyway. He'd have to see this through pretty much, and then possible failure could be just downplayed as past mistakes by Jarmo.

Funny enough we did that when Howson and was canned and Jarmo was brought in. Howson had just re-made the roster by bringing in Bobrovsky, Foligno, Dubinsky, etc... and his draft picks were just starting to show up. Jarmo initially had this talk about patient rebuilding but then he found out that the team he inherited had full cupboards and was winning too many games. Full credit to Jarmo for rebuilding the D group but other than that he was locked in to the build of his predecessor. The forward group was mostly Howson style until after the 2019 run.

 

[Monk]

Funny enough we did that when Howson and was canned and Jarmo was brought in. Howson had just re-made the roster by bringing in Bobrovsky, Foligno, Dubinsky, etc... and his draft picks were just starting to show up. Jarmo initially had this talk about patient rebuilding but then he found out that the team he inherited had full cupboards and was winning too many games. Full credit to Jarmo for rebuilding the D group but other than that he was locked in to the build of his predecessor. The forward group was mostly Howson style until after the 2019 run.

D&S keeps posting that list of GMs that have been tenured longer than Jarmo and how successful they've been. Wonder how much of the credit for their successes can be attributed to predecessors as well.

 

[Byrral]

This is a big summer for Jarmo and what his plans are in regards to Laine, his contract/future and the continued construction of the team for next season and beyond. There are plenty of reasons to be questioning Jarmo currently and over the course of his tenure. Yes the team has had it's best success under Jarmo but it's also not unreasonable to expect more than one playoff series win in 10 years while the team is currently in a complete "reset" again.

The going all-in year for a playoff victory continues to be debatable as to whether it was worth it or not while also mentioning that he has not been able to keep a few key players over the past couple seasons....yes he shares responsibility for this. For every good move Jarmo has made (Panarin, Jones) there are equally questionable moves you could debate them against (Not trading Panarin, Horton/Clarkson/Karlsson/expansion, Gaborik, Marchessault, etc.). Most of the long term contracts he has given out have been player friendly deals (Foligno, Dubinsky, Atkinson, etc.) and the useful players he chose to play hardball with are no longer on the team (Bob, Anderson). His draft history has been mixed with his more successful picks being in later rounds while his earlier picks before this past draft have turned out mostly meh (Dubois was a HR minus whatever drama ended up chasing him out of town). His player development history is pathetic outside of Bjorkstrand and he seems comfortable with player development being done on the NHL roster. I am sure there are other things that I haven't mentioned that others may be concerned with on both sides of the debate.

So there are plenty of things to question with Jarmo. There are only 32 NHL GM jobs and I guarantee that there are plenty of qualified candidates including some that we have never even heard of that would be chomping at the bit to take the reigns of this team.

There is never a good time to fire a GM whether it be before this past season, right now or in the next year or so and it's probably not the time to fire Jarmo right now. I'm looking forward to seeing where Jarmo goes over this summer and into next season with this team but this is not a topic that is unreasonable for debate.

 

[koteka]

The going all-in year for a playoff victory continues to be debatable as to whether it was worth it or not

Really? I thought the debate was over, it was the high point of 20+ years of CBJ hockey, and we all enjoyed it.

 

[Crede777]

Are there really people who think that whatever limited success (through the lens of franchise history and not overall) the Jackets have had in the recent past is due to Davidson while Kekalainen is to blame for that success not being greater? You wanna hold Jarmo accountable fine, but I don't see how anyone can be all "at least we have JD".

I'm not going to assess success or shortcomings to the presence of JD, but I do think that JD plays an extremely important part when working with Jarmo.

Specifically, I suspect that JD lends some emotional intelligence to the front office. Jarmo seems very much like a no nonsense by the numbers guy whereas JD is able to play a political game.