Salary Cap: The Impending Cap Ceiling Issue

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
55,777
35,423
40N 83W (approx)
This, exactly, is the fourth line I've been pondering through this discussion about "replacing" Campbell and Boll.

That's nice. I've been much more concerned about how much responsibility that dumps on the shoulders of Rychel and Bjorkstrand, or whichever other two wingers we bring in. Assuming, of course, that Clarkson is #13F. We're unlikely to be able to, say, trade Tyutin for a third-line forward.

Maybe if we win the draft lottery and get Matthews, and maybe if that kind of trade does go through, then maybe we just might be able to ice such a fourth line. Lots of opportunity for that to not work out tho.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
34,651
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Exurban Cbus
That's nice. I've been much more concerned about how much responsibility that dumps on the shoulders of Rychel and Bjorkstrand, or whichever other two wingers we bring in. Assuming, of course, that Clarkson is #13F. We're unlikely to be able to, say, trade Tyutin for a third-line forward.

Maybe if we win the draft lottery and get Matthews, and maybe if that kind of trade does go through, then maybe we just might be able to ice such a fourth line. Lots of opportunity for that to not work out tho.

Lots of opportunity for a fourth line featuring Campbell and Boll to not work out. Lots of evidence, too.
 

major major

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
14,598
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OMG what if Rychel and Bjorkstrand are disappointing and play as bad as Campbell and Boll??

We better keep playing Campbell and Boll. :sarcasm:
 

blahblah

Registered User
Nov 24, 2005
21,327
972
I opposed the Campbell signing from the start because he's not a good 4th line center anymore, and Chaput can do that job for half the price. But Chaput isn't good at it either, IMO. He frequently can't make a pass or handle a pass.

There is nothing wrong with Chaput (huge improvement over last season), I was just commenting on this oddness going on around here with Boll and Campbell. It wouldn't affect this team or our farm system if they didn't play another game. Campbell shouldn't be on the 4th line or on our roster for no other reason than he can't win face offs.

I don't really give a crap who our 4th line is, but if you have skill players from the farm system playing there you better be running 4 lines and playing 10+ minutes a night. On a side note, Calvert should be 3rd line. He's one of the best defensive forwards we have.
 

major major

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
14,598
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There is nothing wrong with Chaput (huge improvement over last season), I was just commenting on this oddness going on around here with Boll and Campbell. It wouldn't affect this team or our farm system if they didn't play another game. Campbell shouldn't be on the 4th line or on our roster for no other reason than he can't win face offs.

I don't really give a crap who our 4th line is, but if you have skill players from the farm system playing there you better be running 4 lines and playing 10+ minutes a night. On a side note, Calvert should be 3rd line. He's one of the best defensive forwards we have.

I think Calvert-Karlsson-Anderson could be the kind of 4th line that's effective enough that you want them out there 10+ minutes a night (like Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck). All three can fly, at least.

I wouldn't be upset if they each played a bit under that mark though. I don't consider any of them to be scorers or "skilled" relative to the top 9 players. If one of them pushes for scoring line duty, then great, shake it up.

As for Calvert in particular, his production has continued downward year by year, and he's not a reliable scoring line player. It's also always been a struggle for him to stay healthy with his playing style, and it might be easier for him to keep playing his game if his minutes are cut back. I agree he's an excellent defensive player. So we should be glad to have a player of his quality pushed to the fourth line.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
34,651
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Exurban Cbus
And then when they're sent down, who plays in those roster spots that they were occupying?

FFS! This is not that hard.

You're right, it's not. Campbell and Boll (and Clarkson for that matter) are so bad, the team could literally play just about anyone in their spot and not have a drop-off. So the answer to your bolded question is, literally, "whoever."

The whole exercise, for me, is just a time-waster anyway. I do not believe Boll will be bought out. Like everyone else, I figure Clarkson is here, too. I'd settle for Campbell gone from the forward group. I suppose it's a waste to buy him out for minimal savings and with just a year left on his contract. I just dislike the bottom of the forward group and would be happy if we could clear out even the smallest of those pieces.
 

BluejacketNut

Registered User
Sep 23, 2006
6,275
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I'll pile on the Boll and Campbell bandwagon.....Chaput has as many points as Boll in 20 less games, and Rychel has 2 points less than Campbell in 44 less games. Again, please keep the pen away from JK, he's terrible
 

EspenK

Registered User
Sep 25, 2011
15,842
4,446
And then when they're sent down, who plays in those roster spots that they were occupying?

FFS! This is not that hard.

Bring up 2 more kids. Plus if we bury the Boll/Campbell duo, we can bring them back. You're right it is not that hard. Some people just make things harder than they need to be.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
55,777
35,423
40N 83W (approx)
You're right, it's not. Campbell and Boll (and Clarkson for that matter) are so bad, the team could literally play just about anyone in their spot and not have a drop-off. So the answer to your bolded question is, literally, "whoever."

Excellent. Let's go with John Scott and Tanner Glass, then.

It Can Always Get Worse. Always.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
55,777
35,423
40N 83W (approx)
Bring up 2 more kids.

Who?

Plus if we bury the Boll/Campbell duo, we can bring them back.

Ah, but I thought the point of this exercise was to make them go away forever. If you're talking about keeping them around and just not playing them in favor of kids, that's a different argument entirely. Then there's no need to talk about replacements, because they're still around.
 

EspenK

Registered User
Sep 25, 2011
15,842
4,446
Who?



Ah, but I thought the point of this exercise was to make them go away forever. If you're talking about keeping them around and just not playing them in favor of kids, that's a different argument entirely. Then there's no need to talk about replacements, because they're still around.

At this point I'm not exactly sure who would be up but there is OB, Milano,Chaput,Rychel,Anderson,Bittner(?) Tynan,Zaar, to chose from.

As to the second point at this point I'd favor the bury them option after listening to your point about how little a buyout would buy.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
34,651
15,880
Exurban Cbus
Excellent. Let's go with John Scott and Tanner Glass, then.

It Can Always Get Worse. Always.

No no no no. Stay with me here. I'm not spending them money saved by buying them out. Not spending it at all. On anyone. At all. Anyone. Said that in a post however many pages/posts back. You wouldn't have to spend any money to replace them I said. So I didn't. I just want them to go away.

And seriously if that's where you have to go to buttress your perspective, it's not much of a perspective. What is a strawman to a man made out of straw? Whatever that is, that's what your post is. Also, nice quoting of only half my post. Not that it matters. I'm OK with removing those two players and not replacing them with anyone. But I'm assuming you read where I wrote that it probably wasn't going to happen and I don't expect it to happen and I'd settle for this to happen.

Or maybe you're just being purposefully ignorant or obtuse just to see if I'll want to light you on fire to see how the other half lives.
 

Cowumbus

Registered User
Mar 1, 2014
12,013
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Arena District - Columbus
Since we are on the fourth line topic.. If we don't wanna "hurt" the development of some of our young guys why not call up Broadhurst/Vogelhuber/Craig or one of those guys. If we are honest they are better than Boll and maybe Campbell.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
55,777
35,423
40N 83W (approx)
No no no no. Stay with me here. I'm not spending them money saved by buying them out. Not spending it at all. On anyone. At all. Anyone. Said that in a post however many pages/posts back. You wouldn't have to spend any money to replace them I said. So I didn't. I just want them to go away.

And if they go away, somebody else needs to be playing where they were. Those someone elses require money and thus take up cap space. It might come from prospects being called up, or it may be replacement fourth-liners out of the UFA market if one is so inclined. But they don't just vanish into thin air. You can't have a "fourth line" of Calvert-Karlsson-Anderson if there's not enough players for the third line. Who Else Goes There?


Here's the problem as I see it. We need 14 forwards for the NHL roster. We are presently committed to 11 (Saad, Dubinsky, Foligno, Clarkson, Hartnell, Atkinson, Jenner, Calvert, Wennberg, Boll, Campbell). That will presumably become 12 as soon as Karlsson is re-signed. So there's two open spots already. Probably realistically three, since Clarkson is perpetually injured. Now we take out Boll and Campbell entirely because we don't like them - we're now up to five roster spots to fill.

Do we really, truly, think it is so necessary to get rid of Boll and Campbell altogether that we want to be one more injury away from half our active forward corps consisting entirely of rookies? Do we even have enough NHL-capable prospects for that, such that we can shuffle between here and LEM in case some of the kids don't work out?

This is why I keep ranting about replacements - because the alternative is potentially emptying the farm as soon as anything at all goes wrong. That sure as hell sounds to me like a recipe for disaster. It's not that I want to keep Boll and Campbell - it's that I don't see any realistic alternative. I prefer a scenario in which they're stapled to the bench as frequently as prospect management concerns permit. But they can't Just Go Away. Somebody has to be covering that ice time.

And seriously if that's where you have to go to buttress your perspective, it's not much of a perspective. What is a strawman to a man made out of straw? Whatever that is, that's what your post is. Also, nice quoting of only half my post. Not that it matters. I'm OK with removing those two players and not replacing them with anyone. But I'm assuming you read where I wrote that it probably wasn't going to happen and I don't expect it to happen and I'd settle for this to happen.

"Not replacing them with anyone", again, leaves us with a roster that cannot ice four lines because there are not enough players to get on there. Unless we do a lot more double-shifting.

And I'm not concerned about decision making on this sort of thing, or about it coming up again later (at least not with you). It's more this apparent lack of concern about the amount of responsibility we're dumping onto a large number of rookies already.

Or maybe you're just being purposefully ignorant or obtuse just to see if I'll want to light you on fire to see how the other half lives.

I've tried it. It's not all that bad.
 

FlavortownGrinder

Registered User
Feb 11, 2015
113
3
Is anyone else of the thought that Dalton Prout may be more effective as a 4th line RW and enforcer than as a d-man? Let's try converting him!
 

FlavortownGrinder

Registered User
Feb 11, 2015
113
3
Also, I believe Matt Martin from the Islanders is a UFA next year. He's very effective - let's offer him what we're paying Boll and kick him to the curb.

Martin - Chaput - Prout as a 4th line would be fun to watch
 

blahblah

Registered User
Nov 24, 2005
21,327
972
And if they go away, somebody else needs to be playing where they were. Those someone elses require money and thus take up cap space. It might come from prospects being called up, or it may be replacement fourth-liners out of the UFA market if one is so inclined. But they don't just vanish into thin air. You can't have a "fourth line" of Calvert-Karlsson-Anderson if there's not enough players for the third line. Who Else Goes There?

Boll has been a healthy scratch quite a bit. Do you think we don't have enough bodies or something? Chaput is an easy replacement for Campbell. I'm not saying you can trade these guys and a buyout really doesn't help a ton from a cap perspective. I'm just saying your rational about "who else goes there" is pretty flawed.

We currently have 14 forwards and Bourque is going away. Remove Boll and you are at 12. Replace Campbell with Chaput and you still at 12. The only question is Bjork and if he's ready to play full time. If not, do you have another forward in the farm system that is ready to play up here full time? The answer is yes, there are options to replace Boll in the system and not hurt development.

Karlsson moves to the 4th line if Jenner stays at center. Anderson could be a replacement for Boll. Is there something here I'm not seeing? Even that assumes that Chaput doesn't take a spot.

The reality is that something like this works more for the 4th line IMO.

Karlsson/Chaput/Clarkson

I'm not sure what we are going to do, but it seems like you are making far more out of this than what there is.
 

major major

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
14,598
1,669
Excellent. Let's go with John Scott and Tanner Glass, then.

It Can Always Get Worse. Always.

Its like you tried your hardest to find bad players and still came up with something that's a lateral move from Boll. Seriously I would probably prefer Glass to Boll. Campbell is better than that group, that's why you don't buy him out. He's injury insurance either in the minors or #13/14.
 

major major

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
14,598
1,669
Since we are on the fourth line topic.. If we don't wanna "hurt" the development of some of our young guys why not call up Broadhurst/Vogelhuber/Craig or one of those guys. If we are honest they are better than Boll and maybe Campbell.

Boll, not Campbell. Maybe Broadhurst.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
55,777
35,423
40N 83W (approx)
So all that other stuff yadda yadda yadda but literally this? OK I can live with that. And yet, no fire.

Go back and see the half of my one earlier post you ignored and I'm sure you'll feel a lot better.
It didn't help the first time I read it, earlier, when I initially replied. Going back and reading it again kinda still doesn't.
 

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