The Great Dale Weise Debate (& other ex-Hawks) volume 3

[Hawkaholic]

You missed the point. Johns being moved is not something that killed the team. Just like Kempny being moved isn't something that killed the team. I was just pointing out that being furious about Johns being traded years ago is ridiculous. It's not like the Hawks lost a top pairing D for nothing. They lost a 3rd pairing guy, of which there are plenty in the system/around the league that can be had.

Fair enough. Same could be said for Kempny though so not sure why you would be more upset about losing him.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Fair enough. Same could be said for Kempny though so not sure why you would be more upset about losing him.

It's more recent?

I also think Kempny was a solid offensive player from the back-end, whereas Johns is a more solid defensive player. The "new NHL" leans more towards mobile, puck-moving D, at least under the correct systems.

The D needs an overhaul, though. That's for sure.

 

[LDF]

I'm not talking about another site. I don't use another site. I'm talking about this site. Not everyone browses other sites or message boards. And you mention July 3, 2015... are you aware Bickell very, very likely had MS as of that date? His diagnosis was a little more than a year later, and he was displaying the vertigo symptoms, balance issues, etc. all throughout that previous season. moving the goal post again.....

And yes, a couple people commented on his consistency. As did I. But year to year, his consistency wasn't that bad in the NHL. As I said, with the exception of the two years he spent time hurt, his point production was fairly consistent. yet you posted this, this doesn't look like you were agreeing with the inconsistent problem. a little inconsistency problem on your pov.

Not really. He was a solid 3rd/4th line player. The only two years his points were inconsistent, he was injured. The rest of the time he was basically a 30+ point guy who brought some physicality. But all 3rd and 4th line players are somewhat inconsistent. He was solid in his role, in my opinion.

That still does nothing to take away from the fact that if he did not have MS, the Hawks wouldn't have lost TT in trade, which was my entire point. The contract wasn't that bad. If Bickell doesn't have MS, he would be a serviceable player for an NHL team, and it wouldn't have cost this team TT to move him.

ref to the last paragraph, grasping for straws here. if bickell didn't have ms, who knows what could have happen. you are playing the would've, could've, should've card....

the very first part of my post was SB gave a contract to bickell that he shouldm't have, the contract was too much per yr and too long in length. this, added to Seabs contract extension and the trade of Bickell , really set the team back.

gone b/c of this trade, leddy, 2014, saad, sharp, johns, tt, ill advice trades to fix the trades.

 

[LDF]

You missed the point. Johns being moved is not something that killed the team. Just like Kempny being moved isn't something that killed the team. I was just pointing out that being furious about Johns being traded years ago is ridiculous. It's not like the Hawks lost a top pairing D for nothing. They lost a 3rd pairing guy, of which there are plenty in the system/around the league that can be had.

no i agree with you on that move by it self. but the discussion is the culmination of everything being involve.

 

[Hawkaholic]

It's more recent?

I also think Kempny was a solid offensive player from the back-end, whereas Johns is a more solid defensive player. The "new NHL" leans more towards mobile, puck-moving D, at least under the correct systems.

The D needs an overhaul, though. That's for sure.

John's is a pretty good puck mover himself. He is hardly just a stay at home type.

 

[ChiHawks10]

ref to the last paragraph, grasping for straws here. if bickell didn't have ms, who knows what could have happen. you are playing the would've, could've, should've card....

the very first part of my post was SB gave a contract to bickell that he shouldm't have, the contract was too much per yr and too long in length. this, added to Seabs contract extension and the trade of Bickell , really set the team back.

gone b/c of this trade, leddy, 2014, saad, sharp, johns, tt, ill advice trades to fix the trades.

WTF are you talking about? Look up the term "moving the goalposts" as I don't believe you understand it or know what it means.

What is inconsistent about my posts? I said his only inconsistency issues were the years he was hurt. Otherwise, he wasn't really inconsistent... And I've maintained that opinion.

And grasping for straws? No. Anyone with half a brain will tell you that TT isn't necessary to move Bickell, if Bickell doesn't have MS.

End of the conversation for me at this point. When you blame the loss of Leddy, the entire year of 2014(WTF does this even mean?), the loss of Saad, the loss of Johns, the loss of Sharp all on Bickell's contract, there's no point in even responding to that ridiculousness anymore.

 

[ChiHawks10]

John's is a pretty good puck mover himself. He is hardly just a stay at home type.

I don't get that impression from watching him play, but we're arguing over 3rd pairing D that are a dime-a-dozen at this point. Not worth it to argue over.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

Johns had a lot of potential. I'm still mad about losing him. That was a stupid f***ing trade and that's a hill I'm willing to die on.

 

[BK]

Johns had a lot of potential. I'm still mad about losing him. That was a stupid ****ing trade and that's a hill I'm willing to die on.

It is a better hill than the Leighton over Darling one.

 

[LDF]

WTF are you talking about? Look up the term "moving the goalposts" as I don't believe you understand it or know what it means.

What is inconsistent about my posts? I said his only inconsistency issues were the years he was hurt. Otherwise, he wasn't really inconsistent... And I've maintained that opinion.

And grasping for straws? No. Anyone with half a brain will tell you that TT isn't necessary to move Bickell, if Bickell doesn't have MS.

End of the conversation for me at this point. When you blame the loss of Leddy, the entire year of 2014(WTF does this even mean?), the loss of Saad, the loss of Johns, the loss of Sharp all on Bickell's contract, there's no point in even responding to that ridiculousness anymore.

that is right with ref to bickell contract and the moving of those players. leddy was moved in oct, of 14, the next yr, he was up for a raise. the team had their back to the salary cap wall. bickell was 4.0 + mil a yr. sharp had to be traded partly b/c of the cap and the only way to do it is sweeten the deal with john, saad went 1 mil over what the hawks had avail in the cap and there by SB traded him...... all within oct and the first week of july of 15......

moving the goal post is in ref to changing your opinion based on your perception of facts. many times posters have used 3rd party info related media to pass on snippets of information that sometimes other may not know of. many posters do that.

i used other sites esp in finding this missing blogs, tweets and other sports sites for information. they are all viable source of info. except for those that have a bad rep of misleading the people. which i am sure many on this site will catch.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

It is a better hill than the Leighton over Darling one.

I maintain my opinion that Leights was better than Scott that season. He probably would be this season too if he was in Carolina hahahahaha.... yikes.

 

[BK]

I maintain my opinion that Leights was better than Scott that season. He probably would be this season too if he was in Carolina hahahahaha.... yikes.

Technically speaking Leighton was with the Canes last season and some how had worse stats than Darling this season. Ouch for both.

I figured you would respond with that so I looked up and got a chuckle because I had not idea ML was with Car last season.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

Technically speaking Leighton was with the Canes last season and some how had worse stats than Darling this season. Ouch for both.

I figured you would respond with that so I looked up and got a chuckle because I had not idea ML was with Car last season.

Thankfully, I was kidding about this season. Even though, yikes for Scott still.... yeeeeesh.
Leights was back in Rockford this weekend with the Penguins. He wasn't dressed, but everyone was happy to have him back. If it wasn't cold I would have headed outside to say hello after the game. A bunch of people got pictures with him. We still love him down here.

 

[BobbyJet]

Hartman scores winning goal in his home debut with Preds.

 

[Pez68]

The Hartman trade may end up stinging quite a bit, depending on how well Nashville does, and how that pick and prospect turn out....

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Maybe I'm alone here, but I'm not losing any sleep about Hartman. They got good value. Hopefully they hit on the picks, but that's the thing about trading for draft picks.

But I feel like Hartman is more or less a known commodity. Energy guy with some offensive skill. Probably a solid 3rd liner, who can maybe moonlight in the top 6 for small stretches.

 

[BK]

Hartman could sting but he would have started to cost the team more going forward and I think Hino's progression make him expendable.

20-19-88
48-8-12
40-15-DS

This looks like a solid top 9 going forward (although I would flip Hino and Hayden to even out some size/net front balance; I would play the top 9 rather even minutes).

 

[Blue Liner]

There's still a solid prospect that came the other way that could turn out to be something, too.

 

[BK]

There's still a solid prospect that came the other way that could turn out to be something, too.

100%. He strikes me as a bottom 6 type plus we have Shulanov potentially as well.

 

[AmericanDream]

been watching Johns the past few games out here and tonight - he has looked good. he is playing 18-21 minutes a night, blocking 3-5 shots a night, throwing 3-6 hits a night - and he gets pucks out his zone. limited offensively which we all knew he would be, but Johns is hardly a #6/7 dman - he is trending upwards and looks like he will be in the NHL for a number of years - hated losing him, glad he is doing well out here in Dallas.

 

[BobbyJet]

Hartman could sting but he would have started to cost the team more going forward and I think Hino's progression make him expendable.

20-19-88
48-8-12
40-15-DS

This looks like a solid top 9 going forward (although I would flip Hino and Hayden to even out some size/net front balance; I would play the top 9 rather even minutes).

I doubt Hayden has improved his quickness yet to allow him to play top-6 hockey in Chicago. On the PP as a net presence, certainly, but he's a 3rd or 4th line player until he gains that foot speed (and it may never come; doesn't mean he won't be effective).

However, I do understand that there may be a concern with the small size of the 12/8/48 combo. Perhaps move 15 up to 2nd line center, if that becomes an issue.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

been watching Johns the past few games out here and tonight - he has looked good. he is playing 18-21 minutes a night, blocking 3-5 shots a night, throwing 3-6 hits a night - and he gets pucks out his zone. limited offensively which we all knew he would be, but Johns is hardly a #6/7 dman - he is trending upwards and looks like he will be in the NHL for a number of years - hated losing him, glad he is doing well out here in Dallas.

Told you guys.

 

[JustABlackhawksFan]

Not to keep harping on this but trading Panarin for Saad will go down as one of the worst moves of Bowman's career. I can't believe how many people at the time were supportive of that trade.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Not to keep harping on this but trading Panarin for Saad will go down as one of the worst moves of Bowman's career. I can't believe how many people at the time were supportive of that trade.

Saad has shown a lot more in his career than he has this year. His even strength production was similar in the previous two seasons.

He plays at his regular level and the difference between the two is greatly minimized. Bread would still be better, but he was also signed for only two years (as opposed to Saad with 4).

 

[migi]

I can't believe how many people at the time were supportive of that trade.

Saad was fan favourite, is a player we missed last playoffs and coming from 53 point (50p ES) season and known chemistry with Toews. And also we got potential number 1 goalie.

Its very easy to say now that people were too supportive obviously.