The Great Dale Weise Debate (& other ex-Hawks) volume 3

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Hawkaholic

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Dec 19, 2006
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Gotta love the undying support and defense of Q from Hawkaholic....

What do Boston, LA, and Pittsburgh, who have all returned to an elite level, have in common over the last few years? Hmmmm.......
Where am I defending or supporting Q in any of my posts. It's a fact the Hawks don't have 3 elite offensive talents on their team. They have 1, and he is closer to Kessel than Malkin or Crosby. Toews at his best still wasn't a Crosby or a Malkin offensively. There is no one else. That's a fact, and that is basically the only reason why PIT is in the playoffs.

LA is only in the playoffs because they have had their #1 G all year, and Kopitar and Doughty are far better than Toews and Keith this year.

What do those teams have in common? A number 1 C playing like a number 1 C. If you think a coach will come in and make Toews magically perform better, I have a bridge for sale for you.
 

Hawkaholic

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Dec 19, 2006
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London, Ont.
The Pens (this year) aren't too impressive.

They play in the right division and have a very good PP. Their 63 pts would be tied for 5th with the Wild (played 2 games less) if they were in the central. Their PP is awesome at 25%. That keeps them a float as they give up 3 goals a game.
And if they were in the Central, I would guarantee they wouldn't have 63pts
 

Panzerspitze

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Mar 4, 2010
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Gotta love the undying support and defense of Q from Hawkaholic....

What do Boston, LA, and Pittsburgh, who have all returned to an elite level, have in common over the last few years? Hmmmm.......

That they didn't sink 17.375 mil cap hit into a 52-pt No. 1 center and a 3rd-pairing PP specialist D-man? :sarcasm:
 

DisgruntledHawkFan

Blackhawk Down
Jun 19, 2004
58,711
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South Side
Holic has been incredibly fair about Q this year. I know this because we haven't butted heads since last season.

I think a new coach will get more out of this roster. That doesn't absolve the players of going through the motions on too many nights.
 
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AmericanDream

Thank you Elon!
Oct 24, 2005
37,513
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Hossa was amazing, but he was no longer an elite offensive player. He wouldn't be averaging a point per game.

agreed, but his 26 goals last year
That they didn't sink 17.375 mil cap hit into a 52-pt No. 1 center and a 3rd-pairing PP specialist D-man? :sarcasm:

LA was in a shit storm a bit back, and demoted their damn captain as well...Dustin Brown went from Captain, to wearing the A, to almost out of a roster spot...to now rejuvenated...whatever the hell he is on, please have him speak to Toews, there is hope is all I am saying. Dustin Brown has risen from the ashes and he played far worst than Toews has ever played the past 2 seasons until now.
 

Pez68

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Mar 18, 2010
19,338
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Chicago, IL
Where am I defending or supporting Q in any of my posts. It's a fact the Hawks don't have 3 elite offensive talents on their team. They have 1, and he is closer to Kessel than Malkin or Crosby. Toews at his best still wasn't a Crosby or a Malkin offensively. There is no one else. That's a fact, and that is basically the only reason why PIT is in the playoffs.

LA is only in the playoffs because they have had their #1 G all year, and Kopitar and Doughty are far better than Toews and Keith this year.

What do those teams have in common? A number 1 C playing like a number 1 C. If you think a coach will come in and make Toews magically perform better, I have a bridge for sale for you.

It is pretty easy to see through your passive aggressive deflection of blame to the players, whenever Q is questioned or criticized... It's not clever.

And yes, I think a new coach will have Toews perform better. Along with everyone else on the roster. Because right now, Toews appears to have checked out more than anyone. Kind of like Crosby under Johnston....

Btw, Quick has really not been great this season.... His backup has outperformed him.
 

Hawkaholic

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Dec 19, 2006
32,299
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London, Ont.
It is pretty easy to see through your passive aggressive deflection of blame to the players, whenever Q is questioned or criticized... It's not clever.

And yes, I think a new coach will have Toews perform better. Along with everyone else on the roster. Because right now, Toews appears to have checked out more than anyone. Kind of like Crosby under Johnston....

Btw, Quick has really not been great this season.... His backup has outperformed him.
We are talking about players right now, not the coach. Unlike you and a few others, I don't feel the need to repeat myself ad naseumn about our coach. I have stayed my opinion on him, but to put 100% of the blame on him is foolish.

Quick was great at the beginning of the year and since about Game 15, LA has been about as good as the Hawks. 18-17-3..but please tell me more about how great a new coach is for them.

You are comparing arguably the best C in the league in the last 15 years or so, to Toews who was never known for his offense ability. Silly.

A new coach may improve this team slightly just for the simple fact that it's a new voice with no previous ties to any player, but you are also assuming that the Hawks will pick the perfect coach. It's possible the next guy that comes in does an even worse job. The grass isn't always greener.
 
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LDF

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Sep 28, 2016
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We are talking about players right now, not the coach. Unlike you and a few others, I don't feel the need to repeat myself ad naseumn about our coach. I have stayed my opinion on him, but to put 100% of the blame on him is foolish.

Quick was great at the beginning of the year and since about Game 15, LA has been about as good as the Hawks. 18-17-3..but please tell me more about how great a new coach is for them.

You are comparing arguably the best C in the league in the last 15 years or so, to Toews who was never known for his offense ability. Silly.

A new coach may improve this team slightly just for the simple fact that it's a new voice with no previous ties to any player, but you are also assuming that the Hawks will pick the perfect coach. It's possible the next guy that comes in does an even worse job. The grass isn't always greener.
a new voice, regardless of who it is, if he is worth anything can rejuvenate this team. he will come in with his own game plans etc..... and that will really motivate the players.
 

LDF

Registered User
Sep 28, 2016
11,778
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It is pretty easy to see through your passive aggressive deflection of blame to the players, whenever Q is questioned or criticized... It's not clever.

And yes, I think a new coach will have Toews perform better. Along with everyone else on the roster. Because right now, Toews appears to have checked out more than anyone. Kind of like Crosby under Johnston....

Btw, Quick has really not been great this season.... His backup has outperformed him.
using an old catch phrase that pres Reagan used, the trickle down effect. so how this correspond with chi Bhawks, well at the end of the day, it ends with the players and the way they played and continue to play for the org.

the main problem starts on top.
 
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Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
190,534
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Chicagoland
Gotta love the undying support and defense of Q from Hawkaholic....

What do Boston, LA, and Pittsburgh, who have all returned to an elite level, have in common over the last few years? Hmmmm.......

They all fired GM's in recent years who were running them into gutter despite SC wins with those GM's in place in past

So if you want to follow similar model then you must advocate for not only Q to be fired but for Bowman to be shown door as well
 

LDF

Registered User
Sep 28, 2016
11,778
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They all fired GM's in recent years who were running them into gutter despite SC wins with those GM's in place in past

So if you want to follow similar model then you must advocate for not only Q to be fired but for Bowman to be shown door as well
i am still stuck in the middle of the firing SB train. the only think i keep seeing his the results of his scouting and draft picks. those SC's, yes has been a few yrs ago. but i just don't know what the answer is. to fire or not...... i will and have stated as such, i will take the middle road and vote to fire Q.
 

Blackhawks

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Jul 25, 2007
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They all fired GM's in recent years who were running them into gutter despite SC wins with those GM's in place in past

So if you want to follow similar model then you must advocate for not only Q to be fired but for Bowman to be shown door as well

Bowman is the real #1 issue, rarely is he brought up as being the culprit but the amount of pathetic garbage wrong moves he has made these last 3 years are the MAIN reason why the team is where it is. This is obviously followed by the performance of Toews, Seabs, Saad, which really he was the one who paid them or traded for them so again it goes back to him... Q has his flaws no doubt but the system has worked for many years, and with a more talented group it will work again but he doesnt realize that the group he has just cant handle it and thats where he fails, well along with line up decisions but you better believe that wont change much...
 

Rolo

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Aug 9, 2011
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Can you really blame Stan Bowman on the Toews deal?

All GMs in the league would do the same, and ALL posters on this board if they were in his shoes at that EXACT time (no hindsight)

Saad, while I was not a fan of the deal, did anyone except him to REGRESS to a 35 point pace? He was a 55 point guy with superior defense. His struggles are on him, and potentially coaching/system of the team.

Seabrook is bad, but again I would bet 60-75% of the GMs would make this move, and posters on this board. It's just hard to let a guy walk like that, and you know Seabrook's camp was pushing for a long term deal.

Look at our current roster, Stan Bowman has brought in Dcat, Schmaltz, Duclair, Kampf, Hino, Murphy, Forsling, Oesterle, Hartman, Anisimov. All good trades and picks.
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
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60-75% of GM's and fans certainly would not have given Seabrook that deal. To say posters on here would have given him that deal is laughable

And that is hardly a great haul outside of first few kids on your list

And if we are going to point out the "Good" then you must point out how Panarin , Tervainen and Danault were all lost for nothing as a result of our GM

Not to mention the high draft picks thrown away on Ladd's and Rundblad's of world
 
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Rolo

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Aug 9, 2011
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60-75% of GM's and fans certainly would not have given Seabrook that deal. To say posters on here would have given him that deal is laughable

And that is hardly a great haul outside of first few kids on your list

And if we are going to point out the "Good" then you must point out how Panarin , Tervainen and Danult were all lost for nothing outside of Stanley's cap mismanagement
There is really no way to prove this, no one is in his shoes. It's easy for us to say what we would have done.
 

Pez68

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Mar 18, 2010
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Chicago, IL
All you have to do is compare Stan to the other GMs in the league... There are only a handful of guys doing a better job managing the cap, making trades, and finding talent... And fewer yet that have actually won a cup....
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
190,534
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Chicagoland
All you have to do is compare Stan to the other GMs in the league... There are only a handful of guys doing a better job managing the cap, making trades, and finding talent... And fewer yet that have actually won a cup....

Did those GM's who haven't won inherit a core in place comparable to what Smith/Tallon left Bowman?

What part of Hawks core did Bowman bring in again?

And to say he is doing anything short of disastrous job with cap management would be laughable.

His trades and cap management since 2015 offseason is not something that can or should be defended

But I get it you hate Q and love Bowman. You will defend every pathetic move he makes and likely try to pin it on MCD
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
190,534
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Chicagoland
Remember when BWC wanted us to sell in 15?

Kane wasn't supposed to be back until WCF

Given that was expectation it would have been justified to sell. We cant see future most of time

We could see that the Danault trade and Seabrook extensions were disasters the moment they happened. Of course some of you still to this day try to defend Stanley on both rather then admit you were wrong and that Stanley made horrendous moves that have set franchise back
 
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