The Great Cam Barker Appreciation thread (And former Hawks talk vol 7)

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

You guys want to have an interesting discussion?
How come all of the public models think Dylan Strome is a really good player and this board and NHL teams think that he sucks?

Because the models have a long way to go. Hockey isn't baseball.

 

[BobbyJet]

You guys want to have an interesting discussion?
How come all of the public models think Dylan Strome is a really good player and this board and NHL teams think that he sucks?

Any player who can't skate, can't check his suitcase, can't play in his own end, can't play or won't even attempt to play defensive hockey, sucks. Nuff said. There are many players in the minors or even other leagues who can look pretty good playing on the power play with the likes of Patrick Kane.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Any player who can't skate, can't check his suitcase, can't play in his own end, can't play or won't even attempt to play defensive hockey, sucks. Nuff said. There are many players in the minors or even other leagues who can look pretty good playing on the power play with the likes of Patrick Kane.

According to the data, that's wrong though.
He grades out as a solid defender numbers wise
Not saying it's right or wrong, just wondering your retort to that.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

According to the data, that's wrong though.
He grades out as a solid defender numbers wise
Not saying it's right or wrong, just wondering your retort to that.

You skipped over my post. The models are flawed.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

You skipped over my post. The models are flawed.

I don't disagree. Kane is the most obvious example, but Seth Jones is up there too.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I don't disagree. Kane is the most obvious example, but Seth Jones is up there too.

Then what are you asking?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Then what are you asking?

When there is a conflict between your eyes and the numbers, which do you trust?

 

[BK]

When there is a conflict between your eyes and the numbers, which do you trust?

It is situational.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

When there is a conflict between your eyes and the numbers, which do you trust?

If better numbers aren't available your eyes. If these models really were absolute they'd be proprietary data and the people making the models would be on a teams payroll.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I'd take the eye test of a knowledgable hockey person over a stat sheet 100% of the time.

 

[Space umpire]

When there is a conflict between your eyes and the numbers, which do you trust?

Eyes.
How many minuses did Dcat and Kane take because Strome was a passenger getting back into coverage?
How many pluses did Strome get because Kane skated around 3 defenders while Dcat found a hole in the slot?
How many goals did Strome tally because he was left alone while the opponent covered his linemates?
How many assists did Strome get by dishing to Kane and getting out of the way?

 

[ClydeLee]

You guys want to have an interesting discussion?
How come all of the public models think Dylan Strome is a really good player and this board and NHL teams think that he sucks?

There's solid stats guys and bad ones. Dom L, the athletic guy is terrible and uses his stats to make judgements without watching.

But there's also pretty not far-off reasons why Strome has some better numbers if you breakdown his season. And Large effects of these stats or role based.

For instance I've seen people here call last years team one of the worst defensive teams... they weren't. After King took over they actually had quite a lot of defensive improvement, but 5on5 offense was a bigger failure the whole year than pure defense. That includes holding onto the puck.

But they were extra awful under JC... who didn't play like any of those 12 games. Strome. Also I would say when Strome did get in a groove earlier in the year he was trying well defensively, I recall a 3on3 he was trying to direct Kane to no success defensively and he had effort there... then that went away soon after though. His numbers are boosted by things that are trends and eye test see able. But national stats guys aren't following these factors

 

[Giovi]

Which is why you need both. Because often, the truth lies in the middle.

Strome has all the tools. He just can't put them together unless he wants to.

But he doesn't have all the tools. He can't skate.

You're right about needing both though. Still, any educated hockey eye will tell you Strome can't skate and is lazy away from the puck. No fancy stats needed.

 

[BLKHKhockey]

Uses Strome to show that models aren't always accurate. Claims Point and Hughes shouldn't be centers solely based off these "models".

This guy has got to be a mastermind troll. Does this stuff on a regular basis and gets the whole board fired up lol.

 

[BobbyJet]

According to the data, that's wrong though.
He grades out as a solid defender numbers wise
Not saying it's right or wrong, just wondering your retort to that.

Everyone who reads this board knows my views of using stats as a barometer for any hockey player. So many sports fans have been groomed to use stats to evaluate players in sports and in general, it works just fine.
IMO, hockey is the ultimate in team sports - individual performances are dependent on so many variables they simply can't be accurately measured. But we'll always have those who will try.

In Strome's case, we can easily see his shortcomings - his ability to make good passes when he has the space (whether that extra space be created by teammates or by the PP) simply can't overcome his inability to do much else. I think Caps will quickly realize that they have acquired a PP specialist. If that's all they require from him then fine but it is not what winning teams are made of.

 

[Pertti]

I believe my own eyes more than fancy stats or internet rumors. Fact that I am not perfect doesn't bother me much.

 

[Mrfenn92]

 

[ColbyChaos]

Petr Mrazecs trade value just increased tenfold

 

[Kevin Musto]

 

[ChiHawks10]

What, you weren't invited? Or was that you taking the video?

 

[Kevin Musto]

What, you weren't invited? Or was that you taking the video?

My video was obscured by the bush in front of me

 

[Blackhawks]

My video was obscured by the bush in front of me

Arn’t you heart broken your bf is getting married? lol

 

[ColbyChaos]

Anyone else see in Powers recent article that he mentioned that DeBrincat was completely unwilling to sign a contract with Ottawa when the trade went down

 

[Mrfenn92]

Anyone else see in Powers recent article that he mentioned that DeBrincat was completely unwilling to sign a contract with Ottawa when the trade went down

Yes

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Makes sense

Sens are still ?

If things come together this year and they begin to take next step, then I can see him signing deal next summer

He should be in no rush to weigh his options