Speculation: The future of Marc Staal

[broadwayblue]

He should and will be re-signed. Saying he's a guy who can't stay healthy is a bit of a stretch. He got leveled by his brother on a cheapshot hit and was the unlucky victim of a crazy puck deflection. He's in top form again now and there's no reason to assume he's damaged goods. I'd give him the Callahan deal without blinking....6x6.

 

[Raymones]

Based on my years posting here, I'm going to look in to my palantír to see how this is going to play out with Staal on the board.

March-This thread---A legit thread with legit points. No Staal bashing....

Season ends-20% of the board will be pushing to trade Staal at the draft.

Mid-July-At least 2 threads about Staal needing to go. The palantír is telling me that now 35% of the board is saying Staal needs to go. Posters will say it's our next chip to trade to rebuild the farm system.

Start of camp. Staal isn't signed but rumors are he's asking for 6.5M a year. 50% of the board is outraged at the numbers. Now, every mistake and every shortcoming in Staal's game is magnified and dissected.

Thanksgiving- Staal isn't signed. Fans are now really getting on the guy. How can he ask for that much money. Who does he think he is. His numbers will not only be compared to McD and Girardi but because fans are obsessed with points, he will be compared to Karlson. "If Karlson isn't making that much money how can Staal?

January-Staal isn't signed. Now Staal's legacy is completely tarnished by the fans. Everything he did here won't matter, 65% of the board wants him traded for prospects and picks.

Trade deadline-85% of the board wants Staal traded. You can't lose him for nothing. Staal and the Rangers will be in contract negotiations. Fans will be exaggerate his eye injury to make him sound like Ray Charles on skates. "He's injury prone, concussion prone" Forgetting that Staal is a great defenseman, that won't matter to the board. They want prospects and picks.....Games from years past will be brought into play. We will hear how his minutes will be easily taken over by Skjei. Guys who don't know the difference between tangible assets and intangible assets will preach about asset management......

Anybody that has followed EVERY contract negotiation and the immatury the board shows knows my post is true.......

This.Is.Post.Of.The.Year!!

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I'd like to address it as early as possible. His health concerns me some, but I would like him to stay. I would think a good argument can be made for him getting a bit more than G and, at the same time, maybe a good argument can be made for him getting less. I would love for him to get an identical deal to G, and think it would be very fair, but I think he'll end up getting a bit more. For arguments sake, however, I believe G averages more points, plays more minutes, has an all star selection, is viewed league wide as better defensively, has received more Norris votes, has significantly better health and durability and arguably is more important as a first pairing RHD. I don't know if they'll be able to build that case in order to get Staal for less, or an identical deal, so I'm assuming he'll get a bit more.

With all of that said, I'd like to see 5/6 years at 5.8M. I'm fine with 6M, if that's what it takes. I don't believe he should get more than that, especially with his health record. If his initial demands are above that and we cannot get him to come down to 6, we should look at dealing him as early as possible (which means we need to get on the extension process as early as allowed as well) so that we're not simply moving him at the deadline under pressure to "get something" for him. If push comes to shove and his demands are unreasonable he can be a very valuable trade chip, especially if he remains healthy for the rest of the season and some playoff games and has a strong finish to the season/playoff performance. I would much rather get him locked up long term, but if we can assess his demands and figure out where we are early enough, the best time to deal him if there's a sense that his demands are out of whack or he is intent on testing UFA/joining his brothers would be before the season begins or extremely early on so that the team picking him up is getting a full year and not just a potential rental.

Much prefer to keep him. Mostly depends on his intentions and contract demands. Anything 6M or under is good. An identical deal to Girardi is perfect, and I think a very good case can be made in negotiations, based on all of the factors I first mentioned, that he shouldn't get any more than that.

 

[darko]

What sort of contract do you think he'd get?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Yep. I give him the Girardi deal and don't think twice about it.

Hopefully CAR isn't looking to give him 6-7 mil per.

Well, he deserves a bit more than Girardi. I'd be fine with 6.5M and ecstatic with 6M.

 

[darko]

I can see Staalsy getting a deal very similar to Phaneuf.

 

[smoneil]

I'd like to address it as early as possible. His health concerns me some, but I would like him to stay. I would think a good argument can be made for him getting a bit more than G and, at the same time, maybe a good argument can be made for him getting less. I would love for him to get an identical deal to G, and think it would be very fair, but I think he'll end up getting a bit more. For arguments sake, however, I believe G averages more points, plays more minutes, has an all star selection, is viewed league wide as better defensively, has received more Norris votes, has significantly better health and durability and arguably is more important as a first pairing RHD. I don't know if they'll be able to build that case in order to get Staal for less, or an identical deal, so I'm assuming he'll get a bit more.

With all of that said, I'd like to see 5/6 years at 5.8M. I'm fine with 6M, if that's what it takes. I don't believe he should get more than that, especially with his health record. If his initial demands are above that and we cannot get him to come down to 6, we should look at dealing him as early as possible (which means we need to get on the extension process as early as allowed as well) so that we're not simply moving him at the deadline under pressure to "get something" for him. If push comes to shove and his demands are unreasonable he can be a very valuable trade chip, especially if he remains healthy for the rest of the season and some playoff games and has a strong finish to the season/playoff performance. I would much rather get him locked up long term, but if we can assess his demands and figure out where we are early enough, the best time to deal him if there's a sense that his demands are out of whack or he is intent on testing UFA/joining his brothers would be before the season begins or extremely early on so that the team picking him up is getting a full year and not just a potential rental.

Much prefer to keep him. Mostly depends on his intentions and contract demands. Anything 6M or under is good. An identical deal to Girardi is perfect, and I think a very good case can be made in negotiations, based on all of the factors I first mentioned, that he shouldn't get any more than that.

There's just one problem with this, though. The market isn't about what a player is worth in a vacuum. It's about what a player is worth to a team. That's why Girardi signed at a bit of a discount (he knew the team wanted to keep him, but they had options if he wanted to leave--Klein, Stralman, McI and Allen in the pipeline--none would be as good as G, but none would be likely to embarrass themselves, either). Callahan didn't understand this. He thought the C made him worth first line money for his 2nd line production. Unfortunately for Callahan, he wasn't worth that to the Rangers (who had Nash and MZA ahead of him). By the same logic, though, Callahan WOULD be worth his asking price for a team like the Sabres, with a young core, a need for a solid leader, and a team that needs to spend money to hit the cap floor.

With Staal, as I said in my first post--he has this team by the balls. It doesn't matter whether or not they want to keep his cap hit at a certain number. He knows that if the team wants 6 million AAV and he wants 7 million AAV, he will get his number and it won't take a lot of effort. Why? Who plays LD behind McD if Staal goes away? We have nobody on the roster capable of playing top 4 minutes there, and nobody in the system even remotely close to doing that either. If we go to FA, we'd be spending almost as much as Staal could want on a likely inferior player. If we look for a top 4 LD in a trade for Staal, we would be getting back an inferior player (or why would that player be made available for him).

Pay Staal. Pay him now. Frankly, they should have paid him the day after they traded Del Zotto.

 

[AHB*]

He should and will be re-signed. Saying he's a guy who can't stay healthy is a bit of a stretch. He got leveled by his brother on a cheapshot hit and was the unlucky victim of a crazy puck deflection. He's in top form again now and there's no reason to assume he's damaged goods. I'd give him the Callahan deal without blinking....6x6.

He's not damaged goods, but he's also missed 76 games over the past 3 seasons. Saying he can't stay healthy isn't a stretch, it's a fact. Regardless of what types of injuries they are, he has missed 40% of the Rangers games (excluding playoffs) over the past 3 years, due to injury.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

There's just one problem with this, though. The market isn't about what a player is worth in a vacuum. It's about what a player is worth to a team. That's why Girardi signed at a bit of a discount (he knew the team wanted to keep him, but they had options if he wanted to leave--Klein, Stralman, McI and Allen in the pipeline--none would be as good as G, but none would be likely to embarrass themselves, either). Callahan didn't understand this. He thought the C made him worth first line money for his 2nd line production. Unfortunately for Callahan, he wasn't worth that to the Rangers (who had Nash and MZA ahead of him). By the same logic, though, Callahan WOULD be worth his asking price for a team like the Sabres, with a young core, a need for a solid leader, and a team that needs to spend money to hit the cap floor.

With Staal, as I said in my first post--he has this team by the balls. It doesn't matter whether or not they want to keep his cap hit at a certain number. He knows that if the team wants 6 million AAV and he wants 7 million AAV, he will get his number and it won't take a lot of effort. Why? Who plays LD behind McD if Staal goes away? We have nobody on the roster capable of playing top 4 minutes there, and nobody in the system even remotely close to doing that either. If we go to FA, we'd be spending almost as much as Staal could want on a likely inferior player. If we look for a top 4 LD in a trade for Staal, we would be getting back an inferior player (or why would that player be made available for him).

Pay Staal. Pay him now. Frankly, they should have paid him the day after they traded Del Zotto.

I mostly agree. Although, a good move to gain some leverage would be to sign a vet guy who can play #4 minutes on the left to something like a 2 year deal this summer at a reasonable cap hit. There will be guys available. Defensive depth never hurts but it gives us some leverage to say we have the ability to ice a reasonable left side without him and try to use the G comparison to bring the cap hit down. Either way, I'm all about keeping him. I just want to see him at 6 or less.

 

[OverTheCap]

I have really gained a lot of respect for Staal the past few years, battling through PCS and then the eye injury. I still can't believe he was playing with post-concussion symptoms for so long.

When he is healthy he still plays like a first pairing defenseman, he was playing great hockey before the Olympic break. I hope Staal and the organization can agree on an extension over the summer.

 

[Holocene]

Yes, gief him all da monies. I hope he becomes our next captain.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

Based on my years posting here, I'm going to look in to my palantír to see how this is going to play out with Staal on the board.

March-This thread---A legit thread with legit points. No Staal bashing....

Season ends-20% of the board will be pushing to trade Staal at the draft.

Mid-July-At least 2 threads about Staal needing to go. The palantír is telling me that now 35% of the board is saying Staal needs to go. Posters will say it's our next chip to trade to rebuild the farm system.

Start of camp. Staal isn't signed but rumors are he's asking for 6.5M a year. 50% of the board is outraged at the numbers. Now, every mistake and every shortcoming in Staal's game is magnified and dissected.

Thanksgiving- Staal isn't signed. Fans are now really getting on the guy. How can he ask for that much money. Who does he think he is. His numbers will not only be compared to McD and Girardi but because fans are obsessed with points, he will be compared to Karlson. "If Karlson isn't making that much money how can Staal?

January-Staal isn't signed. Now Staal's legacy is completely tarnished by the fans. Everything he did here won't matter, 65% of the board wants him traded for prospects and picks.

Trade deadline-85% of the board wants Staal traded. You can't lose him for nothing. Staal and the Rangers will be in contract negotiations. Fans will be exaggerate his eye injury to make him sound like Ray Charles on skates. "He's injury prone, concussion prone" Forgetting that Staal is a great defenseman, that won't matter to the board. They want prospects and picks.....Games from years past will be brought into play. We will hear how his minutes will be easily taken over by Skjei. Guys who don't know the difference between tangible assets and intangible assets will preach about asset management......

Anybody that has followed EVERY contract negotiation and the immatury the board shows knows my post is true.......

This is scarily accurate.

 

[Inferno]

id give him the same deal we gave Girardi...maybe a lil more.

6x6?

 

[Ail]

Based on my years posting here, I'm going to look in to my palantír to see how this is going to play out with Staal on the board.

March-This thread---A legit thread with legit points. No Staal bashing....

Season ends-20% of the board will be pushing to trade Staal at the draft.

Mid-July-At least 2 threads about Staal needing to go. The palantír is telling me that now 35% of the board is saying Staal needs to go. Posters will say it's our next chip to trade to rebuild the farm system.

Start of camp. Staal isn't signed but rumors are he's asking for 6.5M a year. 50% of the board is outraged at the numbers. Now, every mistake and every shortcoming in Staal's game is magnified and dissected.

Thanksgiving- Staal isn't signed. Fans are now really getting on the guy. How can he ask for that much money. Who does he think he is. His numbers will not only be compared to McD and Girardi but because fans are obsessed with points, he will be compared to Karlson. "If Karlson isn't making that much money how can Staal?

January-Staal isn't signed. Now Staal's legacy is completely tarnished by the fans. Everything he did here won't matter, 65% of the board wants him traded for prospects and picks.

Trade deadline-85% of the board wants Staal traded. You can't lose him for nothing. Staal and the Rangers will be in contract negotiations. Fans will be exaggerate his eye injury to make him sound like Ray Charles on skates. "He's injury prone, concussion prone" Forgetting that Staal is a great defenseman, that won't matter to the board. They want prospects and picks.....Games from years past will be brought into play. We will hear how his minutes will be easily taken over by Skjei. Guys who don't know the difference between tangible assets and intangible assets will preach about asset management......

Anybody that has followed EVERY contract negotiation and the immatury the board shows knows my post is true.......

Yet despite all that immaturity, the outcome is usually the same on the management side. It didn't seem like Sather and Co. thought keeping Callahan as a rental was an option either seeing as they not only traded him, but had more than one deal in place for him, maybe several. Please remind me what your original stance was that you vehemently stood by? They weren't going to trade Callahan amidst a playoff push, and we didn't know anything about asset management? Was that it? Ironically the "immature" people you are condescendingly referring to were correct and you were wrong.

As cute as this post is, and certainly somewhat accurate, it is not applicable to every situation. Callahan was redundant, his injury concerns were valid and he was asking too much money. Notice how the same narrative didn't apply to Girardi? Most of us saying they should trade Girardi were suggesting it early on when the team looked like hell. After they started to play better and we found out what Girardi was asking the majority of the board was saying they should get a deal done with him since he would not be easy to replace, especially for the remainder of this season.

The same will apply to Staal. He will not be easy to replace and should be resigned. His injury concerns are overblown. He will probably ask what he is worth. The only way he should be traded is if he is hell bent on leaving NY. So I don't think you'll be likely to see your aforementioned scenario play out.

 

[Riverdale]

Despite his recent injuries he is still one of our best Dmen and valuable to the team. Someone I can see getting the C next season.

If he got a contract similar to Girardi's or slightly more I'd be happy.

 

[Horde Force Captain]

Isn't Conner Allen comfortable playing on LD? He certainly did nothing to suggest he won't be at least a capable 3rd pairing D during his NHL games this season.

Not that I'm advocating getting rid of Staal in any way, shape or form.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Isn't Conner Allen comfortable playing on LD? He certainly did nothing to suggest he won't be at least a capable 3rd pairing D during his NHL games this season.

Not that I'm advocating getting rid of Staal in any way, shape or form.

Gernander's been having Allen play on the left side for at least a month now.

You know, I wonder how much Skjei's progress - and whether or not he decides to go pro this summer - have to do with this decision. The guy I watched vs. PSU last weekend certainly looked ready for pro hockey. I really did see flashes of McDonagh (including how McDonagh was much more sure of himself in the defensive zone as a young player) in his game. I could certainly see him following the same progression (half a year in HFD and then join the NYR full-time), only one year earlier.

Regardless, you cannot let this go down the Callahan route. Either re-sign him or trade him this summer. It would suck to lose a guy of this quality, but with McD and Girardi as your top pair, you have flexibility for a short term solution on the left side of the second pairing while you wait for Skjei/Allen to make the team and/or J. Moore to move up the ladder.

 

[RangerBoy]

Eddie O was on NHL Live yesterday. He discussed Girardi being a key signing because of the uncertainty with Staal. The Rangers need to settle the Staal situation in June. Top priority is the future of Sather. Kyper reported in December there was talk about the Rangers making FO changes after this season. #2 is Staal. #3 is Richards. Shouldn't be much of a decision with Richards. Make Staal an offer.

 

[Horde Force Captain]

Gernander's been having Allen play on the left side for at least a month now.

I don't get to see much AHL action, however, enjoy reading all the updates and info on here whilst lurking. Thought I'd eventually sign up

I can't say I find the thought of Moore getting top four minutes particularly appealing. I may be totally wrong and would loved to be proved wrong, however, I just cannot see him ever becoming that and more importantly sustaining it.

 

[pld459666]

Staal, just like any other player on the Rangers roster ANY OTHER PLAYER, has their price.

Would like to keep him in NY. Would be willing to offer him 48 over 8 to keep him here. Because I like round numbers, make it 50 over 8 (6.25per) Complete NTC for the first 4 years of the deal and modified for the final 4 years.

should he turn that down, he's gone. Not going to 6.5. Not granting a complete 8 year NTC. He's a good player and one I would prefer to retain, but there is a point in which to much is just to much.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Eddie O was on NHL Live yesterday. He discussed Girardi being a key signing because of the uncertainty with Staal. The Rangers need to settle the Staal situation in June. Top priority is the future of Sather. Kyper reported in December there was talk about the Rangers making FO changes after this season. #2 is Staal. #3 is Richards. Shouldn't be much of a decision with Richards. Make Staal an offer.

REALLY?!? That's the first I've heard of that. Well, ****, no wonder they went all-in on MSL rather than futures. (Although, being one year away or two years away probably wouldn't have made any difference for the "lion".) The damage is done with the most recent deadline, but at least I can now have some glimmer of hope that a competent GM will step in to make the decision on Staal - and start working to right the ship before it's too late...

 

[RangerBoy]

REALLY?!? That's the first I've heard of that. Well, ****, no wonder they went all-in on MSL rather than futures. (Although, being one year away or two years away probably wouldn't have made any difference for the "lion".) The damage is done with the most recent deadline, but at least I can now have some glimmer of hope that a competent GM will step in to make the decision on Staal - and start working to right the ship before it's too late...

It was in mid-December. Bryan Murray was negotiating a new contract to stay in Ottawa. Kyper reported that and threw in the Sather info because both of them are 70. There is speculation about the Rangers making front offices changes with Sather not being the GM anymore. I posted it in one of the Sather threads. It was a Sportsnet video. Its somewhere on this board.

 

[RangerBoy]

REALLY?!? That's the first I've heard of that. Well, ****, no wonder they went all-in on MSL rather than futures. (Although, being one year away or two years away probably wouldn't have made any difference for the "lion".) The damage is done with the most recent deadline, but at least I can now have some glimmer of hope that a competent GM will step in to make the decision on Staal - and start working to right the ship before it's too late...

http://snyrangersblog.com/coachesgm/glen-sather/buzz-the-future-of-glen-sather-and-the-rangers/

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

It was in mid-December. Bryan Murray was negotiating a new contract to stay in Ottawa. Kyper reported that and threw in the Sather info because both of them are 70. There is speculation about the Rangers making front offices changes with Sather not being the GM anymore. I posted it in one of the Sather threads. It was a Sportsnet video. Its somewhere on this board.

http://snyrangersblog.com/coachesgm/glen-sather/buzz-the-future-of-glen-sather-and-the-rangers/

Thanks, RB. I must have missed it in the holiday madness (or perhaps I've simply forgotten in my old age ). In any event, the initial report is the sort of thing that seems to have been an off-the-cuff comment - whereas hearing it repeated several months later makes me think it may have some legs. Here's hoping...

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Im guessing Gorton is promoted to GM, Sather remains President, and not much changes since major decisions will still go through him.