OT: The Football Thread

[Osakahaus]

Actually I was looking with more of a macro lens. Forget this season...I think the pain will be real for a long time.

What makes you think that? I think Saleh will be a good coach in the end and help the youth grow as a result. They also have a ton of draft capital and they can easily benefit from that as well.

 

[periferal]

What makes you think that? I think Saleh will be a good coach in the end and help the youth grow as a result. They also have a ton of draft capital and they can easily benefit from that as well.

How often have we heard that about the Jets? "This time is really going to work...." It's like the Isles under wang...Looking back no matter what changes were made below the owner, it didn't really matter.

 

[Osakahaus]

How often have we heard that about the Jets? "This time is really going to work...." It's like the Isles under wang...Looking back no matter what changes were made below the owner, it didn't really matter.

gotta work sometime or another. just saying

 

[periferal]

gotta work sometime or another. just saying

Have you been following the Lions since the Ford family took over 60 years ago?


It really doesn't.

 

[Osakahaus]

Have you been following the Lions since the Ford family took over 60 years ago?


It really doesn't.

Some people just want optimism

 

[Islanders4Cups]

you know why they lost robbie right? Not because of him, but because of the coach who was there. I believe in this team turning it around, but it will be bumpy. This is the bumpy year

sorry, Douglas already has said he has regrets.
Jets GM Joe Douglas Regrets Letting Robby Anderson Leave New York

This team will be well served to max protect Wilson this week which will be easy to defend but limit the sacks. We have already seen one franchise QB go south here, let’s hope Wilson, who has already proven he can take a hit and he was hit hard against a mediocre defense, is upright and healthy after this lion of a defense comes into town.

 

[periferal]

Some people just want optimism

There's a difference between optimism and denial.

 

[Osakahaus]

sorry, Douglas already has said he has regrets.
Jets GM Joe Douglas Regrets Letting Robby Anderson Leave New York

This team will be well served to max protect Wilson this week which will be easy to defend but limit the sacks. We have already seen one franchise QB go south here, let’s hope Wilson, who has already proven he can take a hit and he was hit hard against a mediocre defense, is upright and healthy after this lion of a defense comes into town.

Darnold really isn't a franchise QB type of guy. He still struggles with some reads, and he still just played one week. I don't wanna be the judge after one whole week of the NFL to say this team is gonna go south again with wilson

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

There's a difference between optimism and denial.

Although I agree with you about the Wang-Isles futility, it's not as if the Johnson's don't spend money on the Jets. The problem is that they tend to hire incompetence - Idzik, Maccagnan, Gase. But when they do make the right hire - Tannenbaum & Rex - it can work out to an extent.

If you are able to hit on the QB in the NFL, your job is almost halfway done. Unlike hockey where you truly need to build a TEAM that is a cohesive unit.

I think the Johnsons are in the bottom tier of NFL owners, but I don't think it has as much of an effect on NFL teams as it does on NHL (unless your name is Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder).

 

[danteipp]

An early, big game for the Giants tonight, against Washington, and then potentially next week against Atlanta, who looks like arguably the worst team in the NFC.

Lose to the Redskins and their backup QB, a team they have historically played well against the last few years, and they are in trouble. Although let's be honest, even with a resounding win there are still so many questions to be answered.

Lose to both Washington and Atlanta, and you might as well start the draft party. Unfortunately, even if they bring in some new front office staff and end up with two top picks (that Bears pick could be very high too), it is tough to overcome the obstacles known as John and Chris Mara.

 

[periferal]

Although I agree with you about the Wang-Isles futility, it's not as if the Johnson's don't spend money on the Jets. The problem is that they tend to hire incompetence - Idzik, Maccagnan, Gase. But when they do make the right hire - Tannenbaum & Rex - it can work out to an extent.

If you are able to hit on the QB in the NFL, your job is almost halfway done. Unlike hockey where you truly need to build a TEAM that is a cohesive unit.

I think the Johnsons are in the bottom tier of NFL owners, but I don't think it has as much of an effect on NFL teams as it does on NHL (unless your name is Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder).

You're contradicting yourself here. Yes Woody Johnson spends money on the Jets, but so does Jerry Jones on the Cowboys and Daniel Snyder on the whatever you call them these days...And so did wang.

While NOT spending money on a team is surely a death sentence for them, actually spending money on them doesn't guarantee shit if you're a bad owner...And Woody Johnson, Snyder, and wang are certainly that.

The sport really doesn't matter - Bad ownership will kill you every time. Matt Stafford is absolutely a franchise QB and he's been languishing in Detroit - even with a hall of fame WR in Calvin Johnson. You'd need a generational QB like Manning or Brady to overcome average ownership (like the Colts, Broncos, and Bucs all have), but I don't think you can overcome someone like Woody Johnson's ownership.

That's why I think much like the from roughly 2001-2015 any "optimistic" Isles fans were actually in denial...So to are today's Jets' fans.

 

[Osakahaus]

You're contradicting yourself here. Yes Woody Johnson spends money on the Jets, but so does Jerry Jones on the Cowboys and Daniel Snyder on the whatever you call them these days...And so did wang.

While NOT spending money on a team is surely a death sentence for them, actually spending money on them doesn't guarantee shit if you're a bad owner...And Woody Johnson, Snyder, and wang are certainly that.

The sport really doesn't matter - Bad ownership will kill you every time. Matt Stafford is absolutely a franchise QB and he's been languishing in Detroit - even with a hall of fame WR in Calvin Johnson. You'd need a generational QB like Manning or Brady to overcome average ownership (like the Colts, Broncos, and Bucs all have), but I don't think you can overcome someone like Woody Johnson's ownership.

That's why I think much like the from roughly 2001-2015 any "optimistic" Isles fans were actually in denial...So to are today's Jets' fans.

surprised you think brady is helping the bucs when they've already had a solid core beforehand.

 

[PWJunior]

Fix the f***ing audio on MNF! Christ, how hard is it to mute the Spanish broadcasters?

 

[periferal]

surprised you think brady is helping the bucs when they've already had a solid core beforehand.

Are you serious?


The Bucs hadn't made the playoffs since 2007. Brady comes on board and they win the Super Bowl.

 

[danteipp]

Lol, now that was an amazing way to lose a game!

That said, funny how even a mediocre center can call out coverages and upgrade everyone around him better than a player learning the spot and under constant durress.

Who could imagine such a radical idea?

 

[Osakahaus]

Are you serious?


The Bucs hadn't made the playoffs since 2007. Brady comes on board and they win the Super Bowl.

yeah and they had an actual pretty decent core beforehand? Brady really doesn't deserve much credit when
-Wirfs was just drafted, who's the best tackle of his class without a doubt, becton and wills are close but nowhere near him
-JPP, Vea, Barrett, and david all on their front defense alongside todd bowles hired the year prior
-an already solid line beforehand even before Wirfs came into the fray
-Decent run game
-Good coaching under Arians
Brady was just the right QB. Just saying

 

[PK Cronin]

yeah and they had an actual pretty decent core beforehand? Brady really doesn't deserve much credit when
-Wirfs was just drafted, who's the best tackle of his class without a doubt, becton and wills are close but nowhere near him
-JPP, Vea, Barrett, and david all on their front defense alongside todd bowles hired the year prior
-an already solid line beforehand even before Wirfs came into the fray
-Decent run game
-Good coaching under Arians
Brady was just the right QB. Just saying

That's pretty important, but what do I know?

 

[Lame Lambert]

Oh look the Giants are f***ing terrible again.

 

[periferal]

yeah and they had an actual pretty decent core beforehand? Brady really doesn't deserve much credit when
-Wirfs was just drafted, who's the best tackle of his class without a doubt, becton and wills are close but nowhere near him
-JPP, Vea, Barrett, and david all on their front defense alongside todd bowles hired the year prior
-an already solid line beforehand even before Wirfs came into the fray
-Decent run game
-Good coaching under Arians
Brady was just the right QB. Just saying

Dude...

You are seeing what you need to see - Not reality. That nearly same team you describe (minus Brady), went 7-9 in 2020.

You also think it's just pure chance that the Patriots went from having at least double-digit wins since 2003 with Brady, all of a sudden go 7-9 last year without him?

Similarly...From 1999-2010 the Colts won double-digit games & made the playoffs every year except one with Peyton Manning. Then Manning leaves in 2011 and they go 2-14 (and draft Andrew Luck). Then the next 3 years they go 11-5 & make the playoffs each yar with Luck (until he sadly gets injured which ultimately led to his early retirement).

Not sure if you're from New York and that means you need to hate Brady so you can't give him credit, but you are seriously underrating the value of what an elite QB can do...And Brady elevated the Bucs franchise to heights they never would've reached without him - No matter how "decent" or "solid" the team was before he arrived.

 

[danteipp]

In the NFL, the formula for winning is rather straightforward:

- You need a quality QB, who can elevate players around them and put pressure on an opposing defense, especially late in games. Put pressure on a lot of these guys on defense and they freeze up, actively choke or look for someone else to make a play;

- A coaching staff who puts their players in position to succeed and doesn't try to force a square peg in a round hole, simply because they lack creativity, the ability to adjust their gameplan or find an answer to a chronic problem;

- A team with overall talent to be around .500; and

- Get lucky with respect to health, specifically for key players. Look at the Packers for example, seemingly late in every season they lost LT Brian Bulaga and couple players in the middle of their defense and ultimately came up short.

Get the above and you can probably compete most seasons.

 

[danteipp]

Oh look the Giants are f***ing terrible again.

The Giants approach to building a balanced team makes no sense. You can have a handful of talented players but, if you don't put them in a position to succeed, they will fail more often than not.

Just a few examples -

They keep leaving the light on for Evan Engram, who is either consistently hurt or shown he is NOT a fit at TE for their scheme. It is a complete waste of money and he is essentially dead cap that could have been used for a RT or even RG to shore up that side of the o-line.

Up until last night they were playing a natural G/T at C, which threw off every position along the o-line. Notice how the protection calls improved with even a mediocre to below-average C in Price barking out orders against a team loaded with dominant pass rushers?

They are carrying two FBs, which makes no sense in today's modern game. Just wasted roster spots that could be used elsewhere.

Tae Crowder somehow still has a job, despite being a terrible LB, perhaps the worst I have seen since Calvin Munson. It is like playing with 10 players on defense and he was abused again last night. His one "good" play was being too slow to get out and cover his man, so he inadvertently set a pick that resulted in Bradberry's interception.

Given the relative parity in the NFL, if you are playing with multiple blackholes on both sides of the ball, you are going to be exposed and choke away games.

 

[Lights911]

Nice game today

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Nice game today

If we are talking about the Jets, it went as predicted. Unfortunately Wilson already appears to be losing confidence rushing his throws which is apparent with how he missed at least two wide open receivers. At least two of the picks were poorly thrown as well.

This kid better have a short memory to his performance yesterday and settle down. In contrast Darnold appears to look pretty good. Wonder why?

 

[Osakahaus]

If we are talking about the Jets, it went as predicted. Unfortunately Wilson already appears to be losing confidence rushing his throws which is apparent with how he missed at least two wide open receivers. At least two of the picks were poorly thrown as well.

This kid better have a short memory to his performance yesterday and settle down. In contrast Darnold appears to look pretty good. Wonder why?

losing confidence? he had a poor game against belichick, who also completely rained a complete mess on justin herbert last season. if you think i'm pulling a leg, here's his statline against NE last season

and then notice wilson's early stats

it's rough but you can learn from mistakes, especially with a young coaching staff like this

 

[Islanders4Cups]

The question is will the front office and coaching staff put Wilson in a position to succeed or fail? So far it is a fail from top to bottom, but what do I know. Hope they prove me wrong.