Player Discussion: The Elvis Thread

[squashmaple]

so they went from "he's ill" to "it's a maintenance day" to "lower body injury" with elvis over the last couple days.

this is the third or fourth time (at least) this season that they've ended up eventually giving an injury designation to a player they initially said was sick. extremely weird thing that didn't happen under previous coaches. not sure if it's a pascal vincent thing or a hockey ops / PR thing. either way, super weird.

it's minor, in the grand scheme of things, but i wonder why hedger/portzline haven't brought it up since it is essentially the team giving them inaccurate information.

I wonder if he does have something like Crohn's or celiac, then. Having had people close to me with both, the initial flare up is an illness but it lingers like an injury, and the gut would technically be lower body. And that's a kinder way to release it to the public than "homie got glutened and is now bleeding from the asshole again."

 

[Cyclones Rock]

And ironically this is a guy who holds a NHL record for goalies that will never be broken as Glen Hall played in 552 consecutive games. A different ears yes, but it was still a grueling position, one he played most of his career without a mask.

Andy Brown (ice hockey) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He was the last goalie to play without a mask in the NHL, on April 7, 1974, in a 6–3 loss to the Atlanta Flames; he continued to play without a mask throughout his three seasons in the WHA. His insistence on playing barefaced earned him the nickname "Fearless".[1][

I remember watching Brown play once or twice for the WHA Indianapolis Racers (Messier and Gretzky's first pro team) against the WHA Cincinnati Stingers. I-and I'm not kidding-was in a state of terror watching him.

This was in the era of no limit on the curve of a stick and shots from the likes of Bobby Hull and many others had movements on their shots similar to curve balls and sinkers in baseball.

The only athletic activity that I can think of that's more insane than not wearing a goalie mask at the NHL/WHA level is rock climbing

 

[Cyclones Rock]

As someone who grew up playing goalie, I feel this in my bones. I didn't ever throw up before games, but you better believe I had those nerves in my stomach before every game and basically until you get 10-15 shots and really slow yourself to get lost in the game. I can't imagine the nerves of playing in the NHL with 20 minute intermissions to think in between periods.

You goalies

Anyone who voluntarily faces 6 ounces of vulcanized rubber being shot at his head,,,,,,,,,

I thank the hockey gods for madmen such as yourself

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Andy Brown (ice hockey) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He was the last goalie to play without a mask in the NHL, on April 7, 1974, in a 6–3 loss to the Atlanta Flames; he continued to play without a mask throughout his three seasons in the WHA. His insistence on playing barefaced earned him the nickname "Fearless".[1][

I remember watching Brown play once or twice for the WHA Indianapolis Racers (Messier and Gretzky's first pro team) against the WHA Cincinnati Stingers. I-and I'm not kidding-was in a state of terror watching him.

This was in the era of no limit on the curve of a stick and shots from the likes of Bobby Hull and many others had movements on their shots similar to curve balls and sinkers in baseball.

The only athletic activity that I can think of that's more insane than not wearing a goalie mask at the NHL/WHA level is rock climbing

I saw Brown play a couple times for the Penguins. Just an incredible thing to see.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I found this to be an interesting article coming from the guy who routinely played 70 games a year.

LeBrun: Martin Brodeur on why NHL goaltending has become so volatile — 'We baby our goalies'

The Hall of Famer gets the sports science of why his position has evolved but says it's important that a goalie is "still a hockey player."

theathletic.com

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I found this to be an interesting article coming from the guy who routinely played 70 games a year.

LeBrun: Martin Brodeur on why NHL goaltending has become so volatile — 'We baby our goalies'

The Hall of Famer gets the sports science of why his position has evolved but says it's important that a goalie is "still a hockey player."

theathletic.com

Interesting comment in the comments section:

****I genuinely think a lot of the problems with goaltending these days can be traced back to Roy popularizing the butterfly. Kids are pushed into it way too young. They should be playing a more stand up style, developing instincts rather than focusing on odds and angles. Save that stuff for when they're physically mature, which is another problem...too much time in the butterfly at too young an age has been shown to negatively impact the way a kids joints develop****

I'd make the analogy to kids throwing curveballs too early in their baseball development.

 

[koteka]

Interesting comment in the comments section:

****I genuinely think a lot of the problems with goaltending these days can be traced back to Roy popularizing the butterfly. Kids are pushed into it way too young. They should be playing a more stand up style, developing instincts rather than focusing on odds and angles. Save that stuff for when they're physically mature, which is another problem...too much time in the butterfly at too young an age has been shown to negatively impact the way a kids joints develop****

I'd make the analogy to kids throwing curveballs too early in their baseball development.

I know a couple of former youth hockey goalies who have needed hip surgery when they were in college.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[thebus88]

 

[Viqsi]

Honestly, that says to me more good things about Foligno than it does much of anything about Elvis.

 

[thebus88]

Of course, no actual info or details about what they were actually talking about or what he said that was “misunderstood”.

What if it’s not really about WHAT he says, but, HOW he says things and comes off to people?? The language excuse is absolute BS. About as bad as his rebound control.

What if the people who are around him on a daily basis simply just see what he is as a person and goalie. Everyone else is the problem besides the goalie who can’t stop a puck. His isn’t some rookie/early 20’s goalie or a backup making $1-2 million a year.

 

[thebus88]

Honestly, that says to me more good things about Foligno than it does much of anything about Elvis.

Well it says that both Larsen and Torts had a problem with Elvis or that they had a clearly damaged relationship with the guy they were stuck with. What “good” things does it say about Foligno??

It also shines light on Tortorella having an issue with Foligno and/or the teams overall “leadership”. Not to mention the reason was because Foligno was afraid of a negative reaction from, or to hurt Elvis’ feelings or negatively affect him by doing something that SHOULD BE EXPECTED and criticize him in any way. This is something that some people hold against Jenner to this day, and maybe Foligno was way too nice/friendly also in hindsight.

The story is just more red flags regarding Elvis and the “locker room”. To be clear, I can’t wait till he’s gone and he gets the “Elvis treatment” quotes from all those remaining.

 

[Viqsi]

The language excuse is absolute BS.

Your bias is belief bias

A useful thing to ask is 'when and how did I get this belief?' We tend to automatically defend our ideas without ever really questioning them.

yourbias.is

Comments like this are why nobody is ever going to take your assessments of folks like Elvis seriously.

* * *​

Well it says that both Larsen and Torts had a problem with Elvis. What “good” things does it say about Foligno??

It also shines light on Tortorella having an issue with Foligno and/or the teams overall “leadership”. Not to mention the reason was because Foligno was afraid of a negative reaction from, or to hurt Elvis’ feelings or negatively affect him by doing something that SHOULD BE EXPECTED and criticize him in any way. This is something that some people hold against Jenner to this day, and maybe Foligno was way too nice/friendly also in hindsight.

The story is just more red flags regarding Elvis and the “locker room”.

No, it's not. It's doubling down on an already known incident (when he went for a goal and nearly cost the team the game as a result). He picked up a black mark on his record for that already (I recall you tearing into him for it when it happened); this is an attempt at double jeopardy.

EDIT: Also, "afraid of a negative reaction"? Come on. Foligno's rationale of the guy already knowing he f***ed up and not needing to pile on further is not just a reasonable assessment, it's the right thing to do. Browbeating someone further does not make the lesson stick any more. Indeed, it more often than not leads to pushback and resentment. That to me is an excellent example of Foligno insulating guys from those few times Torts is not at his best and what made him so damn valuable.

 

[thebus88]

Your bias is belief bias

A useful thing to ask is 'when and how did I get this belief?' We tend to automatically defend our ideas without ever really questioning them.

yourbias.is

Comments like this are why nobody is ever going to take your assessments of folks like Elvis seriously.

HAHAHAHA….my “assessment” of Elvis is Nostradamus-like….sorry!! My “bias” is I hate shit hockey players and shitty human beings. I still think his wife is a liar, or THEY are the ones “misunderstanding” everything.

Why do some of you take the word of certain people as gospel, and dismiss other completely?? Is Mark Scheig losing anything in translation?? Elvis can articulate JUST FINE when he’s trashing other people (in the CBJ organization mind you) or talking about how great he is or will be.

Is Larsen, or anybody else, incapable of acknowledging or understanding that Elvis isn’t a great English speaker?? What if Elvis isn’t being “misunderstood”, and that HE is the person “misunderstanding” things and other people?? Again, from every interview I’ve ever seen of Elvis, the problem isn’t WHAT he says ITS HOW HE SAYS IT.

—Not to mention this contradicts the perception and narrative that many have/had around here of Larsen being too nice as a coach. It’s BS. Larsen/Laine bench incident is another perfect example of the FACTS not aligning with the BS anti-Larsen crowd.—

* * *​

No, it's not. It's doubling down on an already known incident (when he went for a goal and nearly cost the team the game as a result). He picked up a black mark on his record for that already (I recall you tearing into him for it when it happened); this is an attempt at double jeopardy.

Nobody is doubling down on anything. This isn’t some new interview. I’m posting it in response to Elvis trashing Larsen for essentially no reason at all. It just shows that BOTH Tortorella and Larsen had an “unhealthy” relationship with Elvis, their essentially forced “starting goalie”, along with a very interesting “strain” in relationship between Torts and Foligno.

And now look at Elvis this year with Vincent. Can only imagine what happened between Elvis and Babcock.

 

[Viqsi]

HAHAHAHA….my “assessment” of Elvis is Nostradamus-like….sorry!! My “bias” is I hate shit hockey players and shitty human beings. I still think his wife is a liar, or THEY are the ones “misunderstanding” everything.

Why do some of you take the word of certain people as gospel, and dismiss other completely?? Is Mark Scheig losing anything in translation?? Elvis can articulate JUST FINE when he’s trashing other people (in the CBJ organization mind you) or talking about how great he is or will be.

Is Larsen, or anybody else, incapable of acknowledging or understanding that Elvis isn’t a great English speaker?? What if Elvis isn’t being “misunderstood”, and that HE is the person “misunderstanding” things and other people?? Again, from every interview I’ve ever seen of Elvis, the problem isn’t WHAT he says ITS HOW HE SAYS IT.

—Not to mention this contradicts the perception and narrative that many have/had around here of Larsen being too nice as a coach. It’s BS. Larsen/Laine bench incident is another perfect example of the FACTS not aligning with the BS anti-Larsen crowd.—



Nobody is doubling down on anything. This isn’t some new interview. I’m posting it in response to Elvis trashing Larsen for essentially no reason at all. It just shows that BOTH Tortorella and Larsen had an “unhealthy” relationship with Elvis, their essentially forced “starting goalie”, along with a very interesting “strain” in relationship between Torts and Foligno.

And now look at Elvis this year with Vincent. Can only imagine what happened between Elvis and Babcock.

Yes, yes, we get it, the wolf was totally here this time, just like all the other times.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

What if it’s not really about WHAT he says, but, HOW he says things and comes off to people??

yeah, I know a lot of people who have this problem sometimes.

 

[thebus88]

TRYING to talk about the players and the team if that’s ok…..

 

[OldGoaltender]

TRYING to talk about the players and the team if that’s ok…..

That’s fine but belittling any person who disagrees and treating players like they are cattle really makes your posts unproductive and difficult to read.

 

[thebus88]

That’s fine but belittling any person who disagrees and treating players like they are cattle really makes your posts unproductive and difficult to read.

Ok.

Larsen, what an idiot!!

Happy? Peace.

 

[thebus88]

That’s fine but belittling any person who disagrees

Comments like this are why nobody is ever going to take your assessments of folks like Elvis seriously.

* * *​

Simply because I called out Elvis using language as both an excuse for himself, and as a tool to attack his ex coach.

I’m pretty sure he’s actually defended his English in the past when people brought up his issues explaining things, but, I guess I could of course just be biased.

It’s apparently an awesome thing and some grand trait when Elvis “shows emotion” and calls out his team and coaches, but, GOD FORBID any of that is directed towards him…..from…his ….head coaches….

 

[We Want Ten]

 

[NotWendell]

There seems to be a LOT of these incidents with Elvis. Combine that with mediocre-at-best play in net, plus an albatross contract, and we've got a guy who hurts the team more than he helps it.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

One thing I will say in potential agreement with bus on this issue, the "language barrier" thing its important to know when this Larsen situation happened. Because if it happened, say, last year (Larsen's last year as HC) that would mean it was in Elvis' 4th year in NA. I believe he lives in Columbus year round and has ever since he's came over. He's also a very smart individual (I believe he knows 4 languages) and knows linguistics. We're not perfect people, but I don't know if "misunderstood" is the right way to phrase it either. Maybe he's just using this as a shield for saying something he shouldn't have said as a means to backtrack. (IE. I asked for a trade and then the agent saying that he didn't.)

Now if this situation happened in year 1 or 2? I can buy it. He's still new to the culture and all that.

If this happened in year 4? I don't know. Again, we're not all perfect and people can make mistakes. But that seems to be a very glaring mistake for someone whos been engulfed in NA/English culture for the better part of 4 consecutive years.

 

[Viqsi]

One thing I will say in potential agreement with bus on this issue, the "language barrier" thing its important to know when this Larsen situation happened. Because if it happened, say, last year (Larsen's last year as HC) that would mean it was in Elvis' 4th year in NA. I believe he lives in Columbus year round and has ever since he's came over. He's also a very smart individual (I believe he knows 4 languages) and knows linguistics. We're not perfect people, but I don't know if "misunderstood" is the right way to phrase it either. Maybe he's just using this as a shield for saying something he shouldn't have said as a means to backtrack. (IE. I asked for a trade and then the agent saying that he didn't.)

Now if this situation happened in year 1 or 2? I can buy it. He's still new to the culture and all that.

If this happened in year 4? I don't know. Again, we're not all perfect and people can make mistakes. But that seems to be a very glaring mistake for someone whos been engulfed in NA/English culture for the better part of 4 consecutive years.

That it's timing critical w/r/t fairly evaluating is IMO more than appropriate. My objection was the immediate, unhesitating complete dismissal of any possibility that it had any chance whatsoever of being factual.

 

[majormajor]

One thing I will say in potential agreement with bus on this issue, the "language barrier" thing its important to know when this Larsen situation happened. Because if it happened, say, last year (Larsen's last year as HC) that would mean it was in Elvis' 4th year in NA. I believe he lives in Columbus year round and has ever since he's came over. He's also a very smart individual (I believe he knows 4 languages) and knows linguistics. We're not perfect people, but I don't know if "misunderstood" is the right way to phrase it either. Maybe he's just using this as a shield for saying something he shouldn't have said as a means to backtrack. (IE. I asked for a trade and then the agent saying that he didn't.)

Now if this situation happened in year 1 or 2? I can buy it. He's still new to the culture and all that.

If this happened in year 4? I don't know. Again, we're not all perfect and people can make mistakes. But that seems to be a very glaring mistake for someone whos been engulfed in NA/English culture for the better part of 4 consecutive years.

I could buy it either way.

Having a failed communication in year 4 of living in a country in your 4th language is not going to be that rare for many people.