HF Habs: The Development Thread

[Rapala]

Trade D prospects for forwards.

All in good time.

 

[montreal]

 

[Kennerback]

Omg. Slaf needs this guy as his new roommate.

 

[montreal]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836441067610116421

 

[montreal]

Since I have consistently complained about them rushing prospects to the NHL, I love seeing Ramage say that we need to slow cook some of these kids now. Finally people working for the Habs that understand development.

 

[salbutera]

My boys attended his camp this summer … no f*ckin around.

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[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Since I have consistently complained about them rushing prospects to the NHL, I love seeing Ramage say that we need to slow cook some of these kids now. Finally people working for the Habs that understand development.

He mentioned they brought 3 rookies in and they accepted that as the Habs weren't projected to be very good, even by his own admission and likely what the rest of the management group felt with that team.

I'm thinking it's quite possible that none of the young d start with the team. By that I just mean Hutson, Mailloux and Reinbacher

 

[montreal]

He mentioned they brought 3 rookies in and they accepted that as the Habs weren't projected to be very good, even by his own admission and likely what the rest of the management group felt with that team.

I'm thinking it's quite possible that none of the young d start with the team. By that I just mean Hutson, Mailloux and Reinbacher

I think Hutson would need to struggle, I think he's easily on the team unless things go badly.

 

[HuGort]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836441067610116421

Hard to make playoffs with three rookies on Blueline yup. Hutson looks like lock to make Habs to me though. Better NHL player than AHL to me. By seasons end he quarterbacks #1 pp. My prediction.

Other two make it sometime this season. According to how things go. Injuries usually play a role. How Barron plays also.

 

[Paddyjack]

Did we get the numbers yet? Weight, height, pictures of juicy legs...?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Did we get the numbers yet? Weight, height, pictures of juicy legs...?

Dach said he weighed in at 221

 

[Justin11]

Dach said he weighed in at 221

I did notice him a little thicker

 

[lou4gehrig]

Since I have consistently complained about them rushing prospects to the NHL, I love seeing Ramage say that we need to slow cook some of these kids now. Finally people working for the Habs that understand development.

Who was rushed and didn't work out?
Suzuki 0 AHL games is now our captain
Caufield 8 AHL games is now 1st liner
Guhle 3 AHL games top 4 D, just signed long term
Slaf 0 AHL games, franchise cornerstone, long term contract
Sergachev never played in the AHL and immediately became a stud for Tampa.

Right now Reinbacher spent another season overseas, Demidov spending another season overseas, Mailloux full season in the AHL, Hutson 2 seasons in college.

Kotkaniemi maybe was rushed, but maybe he's just not that good as we see in Carolina.
Poehling spent alot of time in the AHL and he was a bust and still is a bust.

Newhook had 10 AHL games on a much better Colorado team. Dach had 3 AHL games with Chicago. Those guys were rushed alot more than our players.

Where is all this prospect rushing that the Habs are doing that fundamentally broke players?

 

[Hins77]

Who was rushed and didn't work out?
Suzuki 0 AHL games is now our captain
Caufield 8 AHL games is now 1st liner
Guhle 3 AHL games top 4 D, just signed long term
Slaf 0 AHL games, franchise cornerstone, long term contract
Sergachev never played in the AHL and immediately became a stud for Tampa.

Right now Reinbacher spent another season overseas, Demidov spending another season overseas, Mailloux full season in the AHL, Hutson 2 seasons in college.

Kotkaniemi maybe was rushed, but maybe he's just not that good as we see in Carolina.
Poehling spent alot of time in the AHL and he was a bust and still is a bust.

Newhook had 10 AHL games on a much better Colorado team. Dach had 3 AHL games with Chicago. Those guys were rushed alot more than our players.

Where is all this prospect rushing that the Habs are doing that fundamentally broke players?

I bet You could add hutson with zero game in the AHL. This guy is already nhl ready

Then Mailloux played one year in the AHL, because he didnt play a lot last few years (injury). But pretty sure he is going to play in the NHL this year too and not looking back

Reinbacher could statt in the AHL. I mean, he is 19 years old. Our d corps will be a log jam. Hugues need to make a clean up someday

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Slaf, franchise cornerstone

As we say in French:

 

[Paddyjack]

Who was rushed and didn't work out?
Suzuki 0 AHL games is now our captain
Caufield 8 AHL games is now 1st liner
Guhle 3 AHL games top 4 D, just signed long term
Slaf 0 AHL games, franchise cornerstone, long term contract
Sergachev never played in the AHL and immediately became a stud for Tampa.

Right now Reinbacher spent another season overseas, Demidov spending another season overseas, Mailloux full season in the AHL, Hutson 2 seasons in college.

Kotkaniemi maybe was rushed, but maybe he's just not that good as we see in Carolina.
Poehling spent alot of time in the AHL and he was a bust and still is a bust.

Newhook had 10 AHL games on a much better Colorado team. Dach had 3 AHL games with Chicago. Those guys were rushed alot more than our players.

Where is all this prospect rushing that the Habs are doing that fundamentally broke players?

I guess you could add Galchenyuk to Kk, but it is very possible that he too was not just good enough

 

[ZUKI]

For christ sake. NEWHOOK IS NOT SMAL.L. He is 190 lb. Is Boldy small because he is only 10 lb heavier.

i am also at 190 lbs !!!

 

[HuGort]

Modern development is so different than back in '70s. I'm from Sam Pollock era. Where he stocked a strong farm team with top prospects and seasoned veterans for them to learn from. knowing it will go deep in playoffs. He said long playoff run extended season gave more experience. Players learned quicker against higher competition and player learned what it's like to win. Today, it's more specialized. More coaches than veterans to learn from. More centralized training. I don't know how to develop players today.

 

[montreal]

Who was rushed and didn't work out?
Suzuki 0 AHL games is now our captain
Caufield 8 AHL games is now 1st liner
Guhle 3 AHL games top 4 D, just signed long term
Slaf 0 AHL games, franchise cornerstone, long term contract
Sergachev never played in the AHL and immediately became a stud for Tampa.

Right now Reinbacher spent another season overseas, Demidov spending another season overseas, Mailloux full season in the AHL, Hutson 2 seasons in college.

Kotkaniemi maybe was rushed, but maybe he's just not that good as we see in Carolina.
Poehling spent alot of time in the AHL and he was a bust and still is a bust.

Newhook had 10 AHL games on a much better Colorado team. Dach had 3 AHL games with Chicago. Those guys were rushed alot more than our players.

Where is all this prospect rushing that the Habs are doing that fundamentally broke players?

Things can be more then one thing. You can rush a prospect and it still work out. So what is rushing a prospect? It's putting someone that isn't ready for the NHL, in the NHL. To me if you need to work on your skating, you don't do that in the NHL. If you need to get quicker, you don't put them in the NHL and hope they get quicker.

So what happens if you rush a player and why is it bad? There's 2 things imo, 1. Confidence. To me it's very underrated by fans, but imo confidence plays a huge part of success and when you rush someone all you do is take a risk that it could back fire. Everyone reacts differently, so you don't know how someone is going to handle rejection, failure, etc..

Now you can look at certain players at the draft, guys like Caufield, Subban, Slaf, that carry themselves a certain way, as in they exude high confidence so to me those kind of players it's less of a risk that their confidence will be shaken but it's still there.

Next is injuries. People talk about Caufield and now Hutson and say they are going to get smoked because they are so small. Putting any 18, 19, 20 year old in the NHL that isn't ready physically you expose them to possible injury since the NHL has the biggest, strongest, fastest players in the world.

None of this means do this and they will never make it. All it is is saying you are taking unnecessary risks that could blow up in your face. But that doesn't mean it won't still work out.

They rushed KK, it was so f***ing stupid to take a kid that at 17 player just about the entire year on the wing in a not great league (Liiga) but somehow at 18 he's ready to be a full time center in the NHL when he's coming off a major knee injury and clearly had major skating/balance issues. I just don't understand how anyone can't see that as an issue.

Guhle I said I would have put him in the AHL to work on his offense and fill out his frame more. So what's happened, several injuries for one and we'll see how his offensive game develops over time.

I've talked about this a Million times though so I just get tired of repeating my self. The results spoke for themselves, MB I kept saying at the time had the worst development plan I ever saw. I called out his shitty coaching hires, and how he rushed these kids. So what happens, MB and Timmins get fired in part for KK. We have sucked for years to draft and develop high end talent until after all these years of failure they finally hired someone outside the box and look at what he's done to turn things around for Caufield

 

[lou4gehrig]

Things can be more then one thing. You can rush a prospect and it still work out. So what is rushing a prospect? It's putting someone that isn't ready for the NHL, in the NHL. To me if you need to work on your skating, you don't do that in the NHL. If you need to get quicker, you don't put them in the NHL and hope they get quicker.

So what happens if you rush a player and why is it bad? There's 2 things imo, 1. Confidence. To me it's very underrated by fans, but imo confidence plays a huge part of success and when you rush someone all you do is take a risk that it could back fire. Everyone reacts differently, so you don't know how someone is going to handle rejection, failure, etc..

Now you can look at certain players at the draft, guys like Caufield, Subban, Slaf, that carry themselves a certain way, as in they exude high confidence so to me those kind of players it's less of a risk that their confidence will be shaken but it's still there.

Next is injuries. People talk about Caufield and now Hutson and say they are going to get smoked because they are so small. Putting any 18, 19, 20 year old in the NHL that isn't ready physically you expose them to possible injury since the NHL has the biggest, strongest, fastest players in the world.

None of this means do this and they will never make it. All it is is saying you are taking unnecessary risks that could blow up in your face. But that doesn't mean it won't still work out.

They rushed KK, it was so f***ing stupid to take a kid that at 17 player just about the entire year on the wing in a not great league (Liiga) but somehow at 18 he's ready to be a full time center in the NHL when he's coming off a major knee injury and clearly had major skating/balance issues. I just don't understand how anyone can't see that as an issue.

Guhle I said I would have put him in the AHL to work on his offense and fill out his frame more. So what's happened, several injuries for one and we'll see how his offensive game develops over time.

I've talked about this a Million times though so I just get tired of repeating my self. The results spoke for themselves, MB I kept saying at the time had the worst development plan I ever saw. I called out his shitty coaching hires, and how he rushed these kids. So what happens, MB and Timmins get fired in part for KK. We have sucked for years to draft and develop high end talent until after all these years of failure they finally hired someone outside the box and look at what he's done to turn things around for Caufield

So no examples other than KK who was drafted 6 years ago by the previous GM and coaches? So basically you're just saying every prospect hasn't been developed perfectly since you don't have an example other than KK. Would he be a top line center in the NHL now if we didn't rush him? I seriously doubt that. He was over drafted and not that good of a player.

The AHL is a trash league filled with journeryman and low ceiling players. What is a future cup contending centerpiece of our franchise going to learn in the AHL with subpar coaches? How to be soft? How to avoid injuries? How to play with low skilled grinders? How to score on AHL goaltending?

The main thing you damage with slow development is the players' ceiling. Since you need high ceiling players to reach their peak to actually contend for a Cup, then you need to expose these players to the NHL if they can survive. Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Slaf all are fine and better off for it. Zero reason to change what's working.

 

[montreal]

So no examples other than KK who was drafted 6 years ago by the previous GM and coaches? So basically you're just saying every prospect hasn't been developed perfectly since you don't have an example other than KK. Would he be a top line center in the NHL now if we didn't rush him? I seriously doubt that. He was over drafted and not that good of a player.

The AHL is a trash league filled with journeryman and low ceiling players.

I'm at work so I can't spend all day on here repeating the same things I have said 100's of times.

If you think the AHL is a trash league then it's not worth having a discussion .

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I'm at work so I can't spend all day on here repeating the same things I have said 100's of times.

If you think the AHL is a trash league then it's not worth having a discussion .

HF Habs: - Deep Dive on the AHL and influence on a team's rebuild

Hello all, So I’ve been working on this side project for the last few weeks, throwing in some data whenever I have some time to spare. This was quite the undertaking but I figured it’d be an interesting exercise given the vitriol spilt when Vincent was named as HC of the Rocket and all the...

forums.hfboards.com

Ahl is not a trash league by any means but it may not have impact you think it does in last decade ish.

 

[montreal]

HF Habs: - Deep Dive on the AHL and influence on a team's rebuild

Hello all, So I’ve been working on this side project for the last few weeks, throwing in some data whenever I have some time to spare. This was quite the undertaking but I figured it’d be an interesting exercise given the vitriol spilt when Vincent was named as HC of the Rocket and all the...

forums.hfboards.com

Ahl is not a trash league by any means but it may not have impact you think it does in last decade ish.

The salary cap has had an impact but when over 80% of everyone in the NHL, went through the AHL, it's not a trash league.

 

[salbutera]

AHL no longer has the exclusive development value for NHL it once did, with NCAA development system having significantly improved over last 20years

 

[lou4gehrig]

The salary cap has had an impact but when over 80% of everyone in the NHL, went through the AHL, it's not a trash league.

80% of the league spent significant time in the AHL? Or 3-20 games at the end of the junior season or conditioning stint? Yeah Draisaitl's 6 AHL games were key to his development I'm sure. We're not a playoff team. We have room on the NHL roster to develop our players, so logic dictates (and has been proven) to play our top tier talent in the NHL.

I'm at work so I can't spend all day on here repeating the same things I have said 100's of times.

If you think the AHL is a trash league then it's not worth having a discussion .

Sounds good. You can espouse the Shane Wright slow development path in the AHL and the rest of us will watch our top young players being challenged on the NHL level. I guess if Slaf dominated in the AHL and won the league scoring title, he'd be just like fellow first rounder Jason Ward, who as we know become a legend for the Habs, since the AHL is a great development league and all. Likely a good time to end the "discussion" since you produce any cogent examples of the Habs rushing players (other than KK).