Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

“Would you rather that the Habs trade for Dubois or instead wait and try to sign him when he becomes


  • Total voters
    614
Status
Not open for further replies.

Kudo Shinichi

Registered User
Apr 20, 2012
21,227
28,188
The Jets are at critical stretch in their schedule and RHP is producing more. … and many think he deserves over 8M.

Buyer beware.

I’d like to add PLD but the numbers have to make sense. He doesn’t deserve more than Caufield or Suzuki.

Based on achievement and age, Dubois deserves a bigger contract.

-Both Caufield and Suzuki got/will get paid based on their potential, not what they have done. Suzuki had a career-best of 41 pts in a season when he signed his contract. Caufield has a career-best of 43 pts.

Dubois has scored 60 pts multiple times already, and he still has good potential left.

-Dubois's contract will buy more UFA years, which are worth more. If Dubois signs a 7-year contract this summer, it will buy 6 UFA years. Suzuki's contract buys 4 years.

My guess is Dubois ends up signing for ~8.5 M with the habs. If he decided to become ufa and sign with the highest bidder, he could likely get 9.5 M.
 

SlafySZN

Registered User
May 21, 2022
7,523
16,292
Bottom line: Friedman isn't in the rumor business, and definitely never goes out on a limb quoting probabilities let alone “95% chance PLD ends up in Mtl” unless he’s been leaked info from a direct source involved in present negotiations…

It’s a fait accompli, 95% is basically saying it’s only a matter of where & when the trade announcement will be made….
Since when this new habs organisation has disclosed anything about their trades?

Over 5 months in advance at that.
 

TomKosto

Registered User
Oct 17, 2017
1,340
1,646
Montréal
Based on achievement and age, Dubois deserves a bigger contract.

-Both Caufield and Suzuki got/will get paid based on their potential, not what they have done. Suzuki had a career-best of 41 pts in a season when he signed his contract. Caufield has a career-best of 43 pts.

Dubois has scored 60 pts multiple times already, and he still has good potential left.

-Dubois's contract will buy more UFA years, which are worth more. If Dubois signs a 7-year contract this summer, it will buy 6 UFA years. Suzuki's contract buys 4 years.

My guess is Dubois ends up signing for ~8.5 M with the habs. If he decided to become ufa and sign with the highest bidder, he could likely get 9.5 M.
It was 41pts in 59games for Suzuki and 43pts in 67games for Cole, gotta look at PPG. That being said, I'm ok with giving Dubois between 7,5 and 8,5, with the cap going up in the next few years. It's not like we are stock with 3x11m contracts like the Leafs right now. We have a lot of bad contracts coming off the books in the next two years and a lot of guys coming on ELC. We can afford to pay Dubois what he would get anyway.

Since when this new habs organisation has disclosed anything about their trades?

Over 5 months in advance at that.
Lots of smoke with the Dubois situation, have we ever seen anything like it? Trouba comes to mind, but it was LA or NyR, not only one team.
 

SlafySZN

Registered User
May 21, 2022
7,523
16,292
When was the last time a francophone media type was ever able to break any major Habs news instead of the usual Friedman, LeBrun etc.?
I’d ask the same when in the last 2 seasons Friedman or Lebrun broke any habs rumours that were true?
 

morhilane

Registered User
Feb 28, 2021
8,946
11,576
Since when this new habs organisation has disclosed anything about their trades?

Over 5 months in advance at that.
The Habs no, but the Jets have been leaky and not just about Dubois.

With the new management, if you want to see insider Habs rumors you need to follow the other teams insiders. And a lots of rumors right now is just extended talks from the deadline where quite a few teams apparently laid the groundwork for off-season hockey trades.
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,897
4,875
Yeah, that's very true.

My optimism is he gets sick of it only recently, maybe as his desire to play for the Habs grew ?

I haven't watched many Jets games recently, as he's struggling, but a lot of the Jets top players are.

His contract is a concern in that the Habs might not be able to use space to get another asset.

Getting PLD isn't without concern that's for sure.

Even if Dubois, along with Suzuki and Caufield all rang in for an average 8M or 8.25M (less likely, IMO), their overall salary payout for three top players would be 24.75M.

Toronto's payout for Matthews, Marner and Tavares is 33.543M. That leaves another 8.793M to add another talented player, plus 7.5M for a top D + 5M for a 2nd pairing, PMD, which is about equivalent to what Matheson gets at 4.875M, plus another near 7M (6.962M) for another forward in Nylanderù,s cap hit, plus loads of value contracts coming up for soon to be rookies from our prospect pool.

Dubois's contract, even at 9M is not remotely a concern as far as adding other valuable players under the current Cap ceiling, much less under a rising Cap ceiling with tons of long term, value contracts on the books.

For around an 8.25M Cap average on Suzuki, Caufield and Dubois, you'd have 8M for Caufield, 7.875M for Suzuki and 9M for Dubois. If that's not conservative, to make the supposition actually plausible, I don't know what is.

We might not have the same elite talent, although something could pan out from our prospect pool. lottery and all (just not counting on it) that Toronto has in Matthews or Marner, but I'm pretty sure we already have Tavares level talent and, with a Cap breakdown as highlighted above, the quality of three players to replace Matthews and Marner, plus the Tavares equivalent, plus another player in the 7M range to cover for Toronto having Nylander, plus a top D in the 7.5M range, plus Matheson, to cover for Toronto having Brodie, plus high value rookies and ELC players, Montreal could easily match up favourably against Toronto in the playoffs today.

Hell, they already did with crap and inexperienced players on the roster, if you assess the Stanley Cup final roster, from not that long ago in Montreal, the way Hab fans usually do their players regularly.

This fear of not being able to pay for more talent once PLD is signed only makes sense if, somehow, MON drafted a player better than McDavid or two elite players, but, even then, the rising Cap will take care of that once those FUTURE players make the NHL and are in their second NHL contract.

What, four or five years, maybe six?

By then, the Cap will be at around 94M by all projections. That extra 13M, if we lock in high end talent at the current salary levels, can be used for that.

Note remotely concerned, personally.
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,897
4,875
The "stuff" in the off-season was certainly not that the Canadiens were solely and only the team he wanted to play for.

Pat Brisson said this: "Montreal is a city he would probably … I can talk about it because he doesn't have a contract at the moment - he's a restricted free agent," Brisson told TVA Sports in French, as translated by The Athletic. "Montreal is a place, a city he'd like to play in. That's all I can say about that."

There's an enormous difference between that quote and you claiming that Montreal is the only team he wants to play for.
As much as I think that your views on PLD are tunnel-visioned, biased or ill-informed, overall, I can't be more with you that PLD, or Brisson, or PLD's girlfriend, nor his parish priest, or anyone else, for that matter, other than third, fourth fifth or worse parties that are just speculating, never, ever, publicly stated that it was Montreal and not any other team.

Even if everything was in place for a deal the second Dubois was traded to Montreal, or the second he became an UFA, things could change very quickly and Brisson is far from being stupid.

Any speculation on Dubois only wanting to play in Montreal is pure fanboy-ism or fangirl-ism.

Yet, you don't even need that extrapolated factor in play to make sense of a legitimate path for Dubois coming to Montreal.

No need to go fantasy land where the regular narrative floating around points to Dubois possibly (strongly so) coming to Montreal.

A few fans will as well.
At least six, maybe seven. ;)
 

Shawnathon

Registered User
Jul 25, 2012
563
345
As much as I think that your views on PLD are tunnel-visioned, biased or ill-informed, overall, I can't be more with you that PLD, or Brisson, or PLD's girlfriend, nor his parish priest, or anyone else, for that matter, other than third, fourth fifth or worse parties that are just speculating, never, ever, publicly stated that it was Montreal and not any other team.

Even if everything was in place for a deal the second Dubois was traded to Montreal, or the second he became an UFA, things could change very quickly and Brisson is far from being stupid.

Any speculation on Dubois only wanting to play in Montreal is pure fanboy-ism or fangirl-ism.

Yet, you don't even need that extrapolated factor in play to make sense of a legitimate path for Dubois coming to Montreal.

No need to go fantasy land where the regular narrative floating around points to Dubois possibly (strongly so) coming to Montreal.
You’re such a Pierre Luc Dubois super fan. Every post I see you in, it’s you overhyping this guy. He scores 60-70 points on a good offensive team. He ain’t no $9 million dollar stud. I get that You think this guy will be the next Francophone superstar but be realistic on what he is.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
21,135
15,274
Even if Dubois, along with Suzuki and Caufield all rang in for an average 8M or 8.25M (less likely, IMO), their overall salary payout for three top players would be 24.75M.

Toronto's payout for Matthews, Marner and Tavares is 33.543M. That leaves another 8.793M to add another talented player, plus 7.5M for a top D + 5M for a 2nd pairing, PMD, which is about equivalent to what Matheson gets at 4.875M, plus another near 7M (6.962M) for another forward in Nylanderù,s cap hit, plus loads of value contracts coming up for soon to be rookies from our prospect pool.

Dubois's contract, even at 9M is not remotely a concern as far as adding other valuable players under the current Cap ceiling, much less under a rising Cap ceiling with tons of long term, value contracts on the books.

For around an 8.25M Cap average on Suzuki, Caufield and Dubois, you'd have 8M for Caufield, 7.875M for Suzuki and 9M for Dubois. If that's not conservative, to make the supposition actually plausible, I don't know what is.

We might not have the same elite talent, although something could pan out from our prospect pool. lottery and all (just not counting on it) that Toronto has in Matthews or Marner, but I'm pretty sure we already have Tavares level talent and, with a Cap breakdown as highlighted above, the quality of three players to replace Matthews and Marner, plus the Tavares equivalent, plus another player in the 7M range to cover for Toronto having Nylander, plus a top D in the 7.5M range, plus Matheson, to cover for Toronto having Brodie, plus high value rookies and ELC players, Montreal could easily match up favourably against Toronto in the playoffs today.

Hell, they already did with crap and inexperienced players on the roster, if you assess the Stanley Cup final roster, from not that long ago in Montreal, the way Hab fans usually do their players regularly.

This fear of not being able to pay for more talent once PLD is signed only makes sense if, somehow, MON drafted a player better than McDavid or two elite players, but, even then, the rising Cap will take care of that once those FUTURE players make the NHL and are in their second NHL contract.

What, four or five years, maybe six?

By then, the Cap will be at around 94M by all projections. That extra 13M, if we lock in high end talent at the current salary levels, can be used for that.

Note remotely concerned, personally.

You're not concerned at all about spending 25 mil long term on three players who have never hit 30 goals or 65 points? And then decided to compare them to a group of players who each generally provide p/gp production with elite on-ice impacts?

The point of a rebuild is to put yourself in a position to get elite players. I don't even care much about paying Dubois (although 9 mil would make his life a living hell in the same way Drouin's contract has hurt him), but that's a crazy comparison.

The "stuff" in the off-season was certainly not that the Canadiens were solely and only the team he wanted to play for.

Pat Brisson said this: "Montreal is a city he would probably … I can talk about it because he doesn't have a contract at the moment - he's a restricted free agent," Brisson told TVA Sports in French, as translated by The Athletic. "Montreal is a place, a city he'd like to play in. That's all I can say about that."

There's an enormous difference between that quote and you claiming that Montreal is the only team he wants to play for.

Please show me where I claimed that the Habs are the only team he wants to play for.

And if you don't want to give any credence to established insiders or beat reporters from both markets then that's your perogative, I just don't know why you'd bother engaging if you only care about official press releases and player or agent statements.
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,897
4,875
This is true. Dubois and his agent are not just saying Montreal but then you wonder... Why is he leaving the Jets who have a good team? Does he not like Winnipeg or some of his teammates or did he really get uninspired after asking out of Columbus and wanting to be traded to the Habs. What are the reasons why he won't sign in Winnipeg?

Personally, I do think he has a few teams in his mind after the Habs but I don't think that list is large. I don't think the Bruins are on it. But the Avs and Canes might be. Imagine, A well documented narrative where he grew up a Habs fan and his agent says he is interested in the Habs and then ends up picking the Bruins. I'd bet money against that? Any takers?

Habs are on his list no doubt and it's very possible we are at the top of the list.
Players are human beings and many reasons can affect their desire to play in any given city.

Petry's wife wanted to play in the US to facilitate access to the grandparents for the kids because of COVID.

Pronger wanted out of Edmonton because his wife didn't think that a stale, red-neck, Canadian town was to her liking.

Another player wanted to get moved to a city where career opportunities were better for his wife, rather than leave her stranded and unemployable in her field while he was gone on the road.

Maybe Dubois doesn't want to start and raise a family in Winnipeg after signing a long term contract and being there for at least the next 8 years?

Maybe Dubois doesn't want to go to Carolina either, a US state with the most pro-gun hoards, where carrying a gun on open display in your car, mounted on your dash is perfectly legal, where hospital workers who face gun shot wound cases daily, are bizarrely the first to put pressure on you to own a gun (My brother worked there as a physiotherapist in Raleigh and that was the situation he described to us).

Whatever the reason, players are human beings and have families of their own (or will have -- they can certainly afford having one). We should stop questioning their right to further their careers in an environment that also soothes their personal life, whether it is one where the work environment is toxic and they want out (Columbus with Tortorella as head coach and the team gradually losing talented players, one after the other), or one where they don't see a future for their family the way they envisaged and they want a better destination to raise their kids.

It's not an insult against Winnipeg. It's just not a good fit with the player, for whatever personal reason.

For example, my brother lives in rural Texas in a town with 3000 inhabitants. The only exciting thing. around is a Walmart and the scenery isn't particularly breath-taking, nor is the town particularly peaceful.

I couldn't live there for any protracted period of time, but I know the people in that town from having visited often enough. They are good people. Yet that doesn't change the fact that I would rather put a bullet in my head than lay down roots there.

Players are not robots or, worse, slaves, that have no word to say in how or where they work. We should really stop acting as though they were.

7 years playing in the NHL are owed to the team that picks them, or age 27, I think, before they become UFAs.

That doesn't mean that they should keep their mouths shut if they are psychologically abused while they play for that team (Tortorella is a good example), nor should they be forced to sign a long term contract that takes them beyond their RFA years if it is offered to them.

How would you feel if younhad no say in where and how you work?

Maybe you'd want to be psychologically tormented or be treated like a slave if you were paid Millions, biding your time before retiring a Millionaire.

That's your prerogative, but it doesn't give you the right to project that onto another individual.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Catanddogguitarrr

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,897
4,875
Don't be so dramatic with the "poo-poo" on him. Do you have absolutely zero concerns about a young player who has wanted out of two organizations for greener pastures? It certainly isn't conventional. I said the same thing when he wanted out of Columbus. It's odd for a player that young to want out of the organization that drafted him and invested so much into him.
Really? Odd to ant to get away from Tortorella and the way he treated Dubois publicly? The only problem with your statement is that it brushes a leisurely portrait of green fields and pleasant days fishing by the creek, omitting the wolves that were stalking you on a daily basis.

The environment in CLB, at the time of Dubois' demands to get out of Dodge were toxic. the work environment was toxic and Dubois had clearly lost his passion for the game.

He gives credit to Martin St-Louis (ironically), who was a consultant with CLB for a while, for rekindling that passion in him, but not for making playing under Tortorella sufferable.

I don't think it's a big mystery.

If you were in a position to choose were you were going to live and work for the next seven or eight years, and the money was going to be roughly the same... would you choose Winnipeg?

Winnipeg, Buffalo and Columbus would be at the bottom of my list. I would simply rule them out and look at all the other offers.
Columbus is actually a pleasant place to live. Buffalo and Winnipeg, not as much, but it's always personal, as I mentioned in another post and it's not for us to decide whether it is a good place to be for someone else.
 

Schooner Guy

Registered User
Jun 23, 2006
13,908
13,969
Really? Odd to ant to get away from Tortorella and the way he treated Dubois publicly? The only problem with your statement is that it brushes a leisurely portrait of green fields and pleasant days fishing by the creek, omitting the wolves that were stalking you on a daily basis.

The environment in CLB, at the time of Dubois' demands to get out of Dodge were toxic. the work environment was toxic and Dubois had clearly lost his passion for the game.

He gives credit to Martin St-Louis (ironically), who was a consultant with CLB for a while, for rekindling that passion in him, but not for making playing under Tortorella sufferable.
Funny that PLD himself stated that wanting out of Columbus had nothing to do with Torts. If it did, CBJ management would have waited PLD out until they got rid of Torts.

The whole Torts vs PLD got blown out of proportion. Many NHL players love Torts. So what if he gave PLD a little bit of tough love especially after "The Shift". Torts gave PLD an opportunity to play in a key role at a young age and develop.

Despite an awful season in Philly, some of the young players are thriving under Torts this year. Tippett and Cates are making the most out of their increased responsibility. Konecny was having a great bounce back season before his injury. Torts has also been pushing the organization to go with a youth movement.

As for MSL, guess who was the coach in TB who finally gave MSL an opportunity to play regularly in the NHL?
 

The Great Weal

Phil's Pizza
Jan 15, 2015
55,122
70,782
If we are actually trading Florida's 1st for him, we better attach Armia to the deal as well. Not including a cap dump is a major fail in my books. Hoffman is expiring and Gallagher is untradeable.
 

morhilane

Registered User
Feb 28, 2021
8,946
11,576
If we are actually trading Florida's 1st for him, we better attach Armia to the deal as well. Not including a cap dump is a major fail in my books. Hoffman is expiring and Gallagher is untradeable.
I'm not sure if the Jets want Armia back...
 

ManixLiquid

Registered User
Jun 3, 2010
214
109
I have 2 questions:

Jets have to give QO to Dubois to retain his RFA. Is the deadline to take him to arbitration before or after July 1st?

If a team like Colorado or Boston can offer sheet Dubois for 1 year/6.4m$ rental, compensation is 1st & 3rd. Isn't that devalue Dubois return for the Jets? Why would any team offer more then that to get Dubois for 1 year?
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,897
4,875
I favour an 11 strong player model.

Two first lines, a 3C who is 2C calibre on most teams, 3 first pair D and a good starting g.
I go for 12, with the G and three strong lines in the top-9.

I think you can have two play driving Ds and a decent complement at a lower cap hit that can munch minutes alongside those play driving Ds.

I think it's more than doable under the cap constraints, especially with value ELCs or 2nd NHL contracts providing talented depth.

Montreal, if it can add Dubois in the 8M-9M range, as demonstrated in another of my posts, is sitting pretty, compared to Toronto in terms of overall skill throughout their lineup for the foreseeable future.

The lower the long term Cap hit for Dubois (and Caufield), obviously, the more leeway is gained for talented depth.

Between your vision and mine, there isn't much difference (I see the value of going with a top-3, if not a Big-Three, on D) and, honestly, I think the team's drafting and development would/could blur the lines even more as ELC or 2nd LNH contract performers could be producing at high end levels and making the team even more well-rounded and dangerous.

It still baffles me to see some here who wouldn’t want to have Dubois on their team. I mean, what the f*** lol?

No to a 25 years old, 6ft3, center/winger, 3-times 60 points season already. You guys are freaking bat-shit crazy. The same who wants Farrell top 6 next year! The same who will cry when the next superstar player will only want to go to the NYR.

Most of the teams would kill to get a hand on a player with Dubois’s skillset. But some habs fans are « no we’re good with Farrell and Mesar and the next midget will pick at 16 overall »
He just grew. He's 6'4" and 214 lbs now. He's improving as we speak. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Catanddogguitarrr
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad