The Curious Case of Mitch Marner discussion thread.

[Gallagbi]

Maybe I was asleep but this is news to me. Is this generally accepted as fact or a rumour?

His agent and Mitch said he received 2 offer sheets. Didn't confirm team or amount, but 1 is believed to be Columbus. Marner says he shot down the idea and he never signed either.

The soliciting offer sheets would be speculative and we don't know teams or amounts. Hell, it could have been the Habs offering the same deal they gave Aho.

 

[Racer88]

Agreed. I believe I'm one of Marner's critics but I have to say that my understanding is that he worked his ass off last off-season and I have no reason to assume he won't do the same this summer. Working hard is not his problem, I'll just leave it at that.

I’m curious to know how you arrived at that assumption because it sure didn’t show on the ice

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I just read the Zadorav comments about MacKinnon. How he single handedly changed the culture of the team. All the young players look up to him so much. He won't even allow junk food to be seen with any teammates and how it's only for "the off-season". The ridiculous money he spends on full time nutritionists, trainers, chefs, etc. About how much he wants to WIN.

Let's compare this. What are the rumblings we hear about Marner and co? It's always all about THEM. Whining as a career 100 million dollar player about missing out on a pittance in elc performance bonuses. Coaches were "mean" to him. Not taking accountability for horrible playoff performances saying things like "I'd change nothing." And similar things could be said about Matthews. It's never positive. Captain underpants scenario and stuff. And just compare that to what we're hearing about MacKinnon.

How much is Dubas to blame for all of this? I think he honestly thought it would create a better team culture if he new-age coddled his young star players. Instead, it's created a country club culture of entitlement.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Except players with the impact and potential of Marner aren't traded by anybody, so you're essentially guaranteed to downgrade your team, unless you fluke into some player or future unexpectedly exploding in quality.

That "impact" hasn't been seen in the playoffs in years.

 

[centipede2233]

I just read the Zadorav comments about MacKinnon. How he single handedly changed the culture of the team. All the young players look up to him so much. He won't even allow junk food to be seen with any teammates and how it's only for "the off-season". The ridiculous money he spends on full time nutritionists, trainers, chefs, etc. About how much he wants to WIN.

Let's compare this. What are the rumblings we hear about Marner and co? It's always all about THEM. Whining as a career 100 million dollar player about missing out on a pittance in elc performance bonuses. Coaches were "mean" to him. Not taking accountability for horrible playoff performances saying things like "I'd change nothing." And similar things could be said about Matthews. It's never positive. Captain underpants scenario and stuff. And just compare that to what we're hearing about MacKinnon.

How much is Dubas to blame for all of this? I think he honestly thought it would create a better team culture if he new-age coddled his young star players. Instead, it's created a country club culture of entitlement.

Agreed. Dubas thought if he gave everything that the core 4 wanted, they would reward him. Well guess what, matthews and marner especially have zero interest in winning a cup. It’s just about the cashola.
Dubas got played, and at some point in the not so distant future, he will pay with his job

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

I just read the Zadorav comments about MacKinnon. How he single handedly changed the culture of the team. All the young players look up to him so much. He won't even allow junk food to be seen with any teammates and how it's only for "the off-season". The ridiculous money he spends on full time nutritionists, trainers, chefs, etc. About how much he wants to WIN.

Let's compare this. What are the rumblings we hear about Marner and co? It's always all about THEM. Whining as a career 100 million dollar player about missing out on a pittance in elc performance bonuses. Coaches were "mean" to him. Not taking accountability for horrible playoff performances saying things like "I'd change nothing." And similar things could be said about Matthews. It's never positive. Captain underpants scenario and stuff. And just compare that to what we're hearing about MacKinnon.

How much is Dubas to blame for all of this? I think he honestly thought it would create a better team culture if he new-age coddled his young star players. Instead, it's created a country club culture of entitlement.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I just read the Zadorav comments about MacKinnon. How he single handedly changed the culture of the team. All the young players look up to him so much. He won't even allow junk food to be seen with any teammates and how it's only for "the off-season". The ridiculous money he spends on full time nutritionists, trainers, chefs, etc. About how much he wants to WIN.

Let's compare this. What are the rumblings we hear about Marner and co? It's always all about THEM. Whining as a career 100 million dollar player about missing out on a pittance in elc performance bonuses. Coaches were "mean" to him. Not taking accountability for horrible playoff performances saying things like "I'd change nothing." And similar things could be said about Matthews. It's never positive. Captain underpants scenario and stuff. And just compare that to what we're hearing about MacKinnon.

How much is Dubas to blame for all of this? I think he honestly thought it would create a better team culture if he new-age coddled his young star players. Instead, it's created a country club culture of entitlement.

Mackinnon seems pretty full of himself as well by reading the actual transcript. Zadorov seemed pretty sick of his act.

I don't really see the disparity between the two groups you described honestly. One is a jerk (Mackinnon), the other is more introverted (Marner).

All those deep cup runs for Colorado lately make it worth putting up with though. Oh wait...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner is the one who solicited the offer sheet from CBJ. That I will never forgive him for.

Marner does not decide whether or not he receives offer sheets, though Marner is the one who turned down that option and focused on negotiations with the Leafs. The fact that other teams valued Marner that much should probably tell you something though.

I don't care what the guy does in the future..Conn Smythe or league MVP...I will never cheer for that little selfish prick.

I think this accurately portrays your level of objectivity when it comes to Marner.

That "impact" hasn't been seen in the playoffs in years.

That's not really true. The conversion just hasn't been at the level you want it, against some of the best defensive teams in the league getting some of the best goaltending in the league, while playing with an injured Hyman in 2 of the 3 years.

 

[Bluelines]

Marner could have been given a 10.55m x 5 year offer sheet, which would have been below the four 1st level, and worse for the Leafs than the contract he received. Four 1st round picks does not make up for losing a player like that through his prime anyway.

Dude your ability to twist the story to suit your own narrative is pitiful.

Do you have any direct quotes from the player or the players agent that supports , the " he would have taken less elsewhere" narrative? If Marner would have signed for $10.55 mil somewhere else, why wouldn't he do it here?

Making a story to suit your own agenda does not make up for lost credibility.

 

[Bluelines]

the story i remember was that columbus wanted a 7 year deal and mitchy wanted a 5 yr deal ... they agreed on money (annual) but the jackets wanted 7 years ...
no link or article.. just my recollection

I think I heard something along those lines too, If I'm Dubas and the CBJ contract offer to Mitch puts my team in a cap crunch, all I can say is have fun in Columbus, that city where EVERY star player can't wait to get the F out of. Edmonton in January is more desirable than Columbus any time of the year.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Im kinda with KD on this one...depth or lack of depth players keep being brought up like it was the problem and not just a problem but a Dubas problem. Except that the depth players were not the problem in these past playoffs. If it wasn't for the depth guys we had scoring we get demolished. I prefer a different kind of depth player than we were icing but they did their job against the Habs....how they would have fared against the final 6 or final 4 is another discussion but against the Habs they did their job, the dmen did their job, the goalie did his job. We all know who didn't do their jobs. Is that on Dubas? Would more depth on the 3rd line have made M&M find their scoring touch?

As much as I question the way the team is built and his handling of the big 4's contracts, I am having a difficult time understanding how Dubas can take all the heat for 2 top 10 scorers in the league shitting the bed and coming up empty when it counted. I understand why Dubas would believe in them but If they shit the bed again and Dubas continues to stick his neck out for them then I will be all aboard the dubasmustgo train.

Engvall, Soup, Simmonds, Thornton all provided relatively little.

Spezza and Kerfoot stepped up, Galchenyuk did okay in his return to the line up although made that fatal mistake.

Matthews, Marner, Hyman all having pedestrian playoffs hurt more though.

 

[Bluelines]

I’m curious to know how you arrived at that assumption because it sure didn’t show on the ice

He was the 4th leading scorer in the League, then he faced Price and Danault. End of the day Toronto faced a hot goalie, a team that adjusted as the series went on, we didn't adjust anything. For me the blame is squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff and the GM's office.

 

[Bluelines]

Dear Brian,

Nate MacKinnon scored zero goals in his series vs Vegas and you want Matthews to emulate MacKinnon?

Bluelines

 

[ShaneFalco]

Except players with the impact and potential of Marner aren't traded by anybody, so you're essentially guaranteed to downgrade your team, unless you fluke into some player or future unexpectedly exploding in quality.

Such a cop out. We could get multiple pieces for Mitch and perhaps send a very strong message to the others here too. It's about winning not the name on the back of the jersey. But hey, we'll just live in fear of trading someone and keep losing

 

[Clark4Ever]

Matthews has already proven that he can deliver in the playoffs over the past few seasons. I think he was dragged down by the play of Marner and Hyman against the Habs and Keefe never adjusted.

 

[ACC1224]

It's fascinating that there are some that actually believe that these Players don't want to win or put in the off season work. (maybe they don't really believe that and are just trolling, hopefully that's the case.)

IMO, that McKinnon news paints him in a poor light. I had no idea he was like that, could be what's holding such a good team back.

 

[VanW27]

Dear Brian,

Nate MacKinnon scored zero goals in his series vs Vegas and you want Matthews to emulate MacKinnon?

Bluelines

I mean that's cherry picking stats pretty hard, there playoff production isn't even comparable.
Mackinnon has never been under 1ppg in the playoffs in his career and his worst playoffs as far as total points goes is the same (6pts) as Matthews best playoffs.

Last 2 playoffs:
Mackinnon - 25GP, 17G, 23A, 40Pts
Matthews - 12GP, 3G, 8A, 11Pts

Playoff careers:
Mackinnon - 50GP, 28G, 41A, 69Pts
Matthews - 32GP, 13G, 11A, 24Pts

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’m curious to know how you arrived at that assumption because it sure didn’t show on the ice

I remember reading some article during the season describing in some detail the types of workouts he was doing in the off season, it sounded intense. I no longer remember the specific details but it sure sounded like he was working hard. He was also pretty great during the regular season, it got to the point where I couldn't even complain about his contract anymore.

Then of course the playoffs arrived and hit play went down the toilet (again), so bizarre.

I just did a quick google search, I think what I read was this: Opinion | The Maple Leafs are getting even more out of Mitch Marner since he learned to fly

 

[Gary Nylund]

Matthews has already proven that he can deliver in the playoffs over the past few seasons. I think he was dragged down by the play of Marner and Hyman against the Habs and Keefe never adjusted.

Seems like that to me too. And I still maintain that Matthews played much better than Marner in these playoffs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If Marner would have signed for $10.55 mil somewhere else, why wouldn't he do it here?

He almost certainly would have taken 10.55m x 5 years from us. Why wouldn't he? It's a better contract for the player than the one he signed with us, but Toronto wanted to avoid having the contract end at the same time as Matthews and Nylander, so 5 years wasn't really an option.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We could get multiple pieces for Mitch and perhaps send a very strong message to the others here too. It's about winning not the name on the back of the jersey.

We could get multiple pieces, but not ones that have the same impact as Marner, even cumulatively, unless we fluke into some player or future unexpectedly exploding in quality, which is not something you should rely on when making franchise-altering moves. If we were getting somebody of similar age and quality, then I'd be listening, but very, very few of those players exist in the league, and they aren't traded. This is why nobody who suggests this actually has a real proposal.

I don't think we want to send the message that we're incompetent and make the same old mistakes that destroyed this franchise for decades. It is about winning. That's why you keep one of the best young players in the world.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Matthews has already proven that he can deliver in the playoffs over the past few seasons. I think he was dragged down by the play of Marner and Hyman against the Habs and Keefe never adjusted.

Yup - flank AM and dare MM or ZH to shoot. Just like on the PP where MM is no threat. I mean going a whole year without a goal on the PP - how does that even happen? But Keefe did absolutely nothing either to keep MM happy, or he just failed to adjust...... again.

 

[ShaneFalco]

That's why you keep one of the best young players in the world.

And hope he doesn't disappear in the playoffs yet again. He's not even close to one of the best player in the world

 

[Dekes For Days]

He's not even close to one of the best player in the world

He is though. On track to be one of the better players in the whole cap era. You don't give up on that at age 23.

 

[Bluelines]

He almost certainly would have taken 10.55m x 5 years from us. Why wouldn't he? It's a better contract for the player than the one he signed with us, but Toronto wanted to avoid having the contract end at the same time as Matthews and Nylander, so 5 years wasn't really an option.

So you think because you are never wrong, everyone who is right must think like you?

He didn't sign a different contract because he didn't want to sign a different contract. Stop making stuff up.