The Curious Case of Mitch Marner discussion thread.

[Anthrax442]

you also need down time. A lot of NHL players don’t even touch the ice until August. This is common among all athletes. You need time away just as much as you need time on the ice. & idk why people insist on comparing the average person to an NHL players life, it’s not the same thing. Not even close and an athletes life is not comparable to a normal persons life. Both types of people make sacrifices and schedules that are conducive to their individual lives. So your point is moot. Good for you if you work 8hours a day. It’s not comparable to an athlete, completely different life styles. LOL only people who have actually been an athlete in life will understand really

My point was more towards the time of the day, you can work out and still have a life, thats not the only thing you do.

 

[francis246]

100% any job, you need to take breaks from it, or theres a burnout. I just had an extended long weekend and only on Monday morning i started feeling some sort of a relief, tat followed by anxiety of looming work week.

exactly, I do agree with you. There is an element of expecting them to be hard working everyday. But I don’t think many people realize how much work they actually do put in throughout the year and how much sacrifice they make to actually bring us entertainment including being publicly scrutinized daily. Making 11 million or 2.5 million doesn’t make you less human or exempt from
Feeling pressure or anxiety from the media and fans

 

[Bluelines]

you also need down time. A lot of NHL players don’t even touch the ice until August. This is common among all athletes. You need time away just as much as you need time on the ice. & idk why people insist on comparing the average person to an NHL players life, it’s not the same thing. Not even close and an athletes life is not comparable to a normal persons life. Both types of people make sacrifices and schedules that are conducive to their individual lives. So your point is moot. Good for you if you work 8hours a day. It’s not comparable to an athlete, completely different life styles. LOL only people who have actually been an athlete in life will understand really

The most important things, if you are training hard, is nutrition, sleep and adequate rest between exercising specific body parts. You would not exercise your chest every day of the week, it would have the opposite effect of gaining strength. So to your point, rest is essential to maxing out gains. Many NHLers take of a month or so off, then they get right back to the gym, not like the old days where they would drink and smoke all summer, a buddy of mine whos dad was part of the Habs Org, told us stories of how Guy LaFleur use to smoke in the locker-room between periods, it's not your grand pa's hockey player any more...

I realize this is a Ritchie thread but the other guy that people seem to want to talk about in this thread has a ridiculous off season training regimen, they aired it on SNET last year. Strength and conditioning coaches check in multiple times every summer to see progress and adjust the program, they have checks with team doctors/ nutritionists through the summer and I would think if you are investing $11 mil in a player, the team would have more focus on that players health and condition than a guy who is making league min.

 

[Dekes For Days]

elite talent is no guarantee of playoff success

Absolutely nothing is a guarantee of playoff success. There are no guarantees in hockey. Just because something isn't a guarantee, it doesn't change that it's extremely important and beneficial.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We can't build enough depth around them.

But we have built good depth around them. Their contracts in this flat cap environment haven't prevented us from improving our team and fixing weaknesses. It just means we can't give out inflated contracts to depth players, which are usually the worst contracts a team signs.

You should research how the Thornton trade worked out for SJ and Boston as the team that "lost" the trade won a cup down the road and the team that "won" the trade never did.

But you don't know the alternative timeline. Maybe if Boston keeps Thornton, they win multiple cups, or don't have to rely on Vancouver getting absolutely decimated by injury and an insane goalie run to barely win 1 cup. There is also no prime Chara available.

 

[The Podium]

But we have built good depth around them. Their contracts in this flat cap environment haven't prevented us from improving our team and fixing weaknesses. It just means we can't give out inflated contracts to depth players, which are usually the worst contracts a team signs.

But you don't know the alternative timeline. Maybe if Boston keeps Thornton, they win multiple cups, or don't have to rely on Vancouver getting absolutely decimated by injury and an insane goalie run to barely win 1 cup. There is also no prime Chara available.

What is funny is that these "terrible contracts" are saving this team from itself, not that Dubas has ever shown an inclination to sign ridiculous depth contracts.

UFA deals for depth 9/10 becomes an anchor and a disaster

Its absolutely wild how many people want cap space so they can sign the next Andrew Laad or Milan Lucic.

 

[Apex Predator]

It’s so crazy to think how Marner has turned many fans against him. Home town kid drafted and developed by the leafs. We were dying for someone like that for so long and they would have been god in the city. Marner has really just been unlikeable.

 

[A1LeafNation]

It’s so crazy to think how Marner has turned many fans against him. Home town kid drafted and developed by the leafs. We were dying for someone like that for so long and they would have been god in the city. Marner has really just been unlikeable.

Started with the agent the day Matthews had signed his new deal.

No one would say shit if he actually earned his deal and played like Point...which is what Leaf fans were expecting to begin with.

 

[Gallagbi]

Started with the agent the day Matthews had signed his new deal.

No one would say shit if he actually earned his deal and played like Point...which is what Leaf fans were expecting to begin with.

Feels like he never really understood what he was asking for and that's on him. He wanted the respect, but didn't understand the pressure, expectations or outcome it would bring.

 

[ToneDog]

What is funny is that these "terrible contracts" are saving this team from itself, not that Dubas has ever shown an inclination to sign ridiculous depth contracts.

UFA deals for depth 9/10 becomes an anchor and a disaster

Its absolutely wild how many people want cap space so they can sign the next Andrew Laad or Milan Lucic.

Who are these people and why are they not bitching for us to sign Neal ??

 

[Trapper]

I don't hate any of our players but when you get paid so much money and fail for several years in a row, expect to take some heat.

People keep saying how we'd lose any trade involving Marner but this has zero basis in fact. And even if we do lose the trade, I'm good with that if it leads to us having playoff success. You should research how the Thornton trade worked out for SJ and Boston as the team that "lost" the trade won a cup down the road and the team that "won" the trade never did.

Time will tell if Matthews/Marner are Toews/Kane or Thornton/Marleau.

All have skill but you need the right playoff genetic markers and a very solid team with other key guys at anchor positions. You also need money for that in a flat cap.

 

[Bluelines]

It’s so crazy to think how Marner has turned many fans against him. Home town kid drafted and developed by the leafs. We were dying for someone like that for so long and they would have been god in the city. Marner has really just been unlikeable.

I like 4th in scoring.

People in todays day love to find a villain to hate. If it was Morgan a few years ago, Andersen last year... its what some fans need to do to feel some sort of twisted validation of feeling "right".

Him being resolute in news conferences about not changing a thing, is a good thing, it shows confidence. What is wrong is simple fans using simple logic to justify their hate. I've seen a number of people who say he either does not care or his training is to blame. Marner didn't win a series therefore his training regimen is at fault. Alexander Ovechkin lost 15 of 16 Stanley Cups... using simple fan logic one must conclude his training regimen has failed 15 out of 16 years and he did not care 15 out of 16 years.

 

[The Podium]

Who are these people and why are they not bitching for us to sign Neal ??

Wow, really? Who are these people, friends of yours? I hope they never find this place, we have too much nonsense here as it is.

Everyone here complaining we didnt have money to sign the good free agents is advocating for the next Neal.

What contract signed over the last week would we even want?

Even if we had cap space, anything more than 900k-3 mill would be a bad use of cap space in the bottom 6

 

[cupcrazyman]

He disappears in the playoffs and he wouldn't change the way he plays ?

 

[Bluelines]

He disappears i the playoffs and he wouldn't change the way he plays ?

Teams shut down good players in the playoffs ... this is a revelation to some fans? Matthews was shut down too, he should change right?

• MacKinnon scored zero goals vs LVK , should he change how he trains and approaches the game?
• Makar scored zero goals vs LVK, should he change how he trains and approaches the game?
• Stone scored zero goals vs Mtl, should he change how he trains and approaches the game?

The questions fans should be asking is :

• Should the GM support his stars with better complimentary players?
• Should the coach deploy his stars differently?

 

[ToneDog]

Everyone here complaining we didnt have money to sign the good free agents is advocating for the next Neal.

What contract signed over the last week would we even want?

Even if we had cap space, anything more than 900k-3 mill would be a bad use of cap space in the bottom 6

If we had cap space would you not take Hall, Hakanpaa (sp), Bogo, Nash, Dzingel, Bellmare, Janmark, Nosek, Khaira, Landeskog, Larsson??

Nobody is advocating for Neal. Dubas appears to have done OK with this year's UFA signings but wouldn't it be great if we did not have to find half a dozen UFAs to fill out our lineup yearly ?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Teams shut down good players in the playoffs ... this is a revelation to some fans? Matthews was shut down too, he should change right?

• MacKinnon scored zero goals vs LVK , should he change how he trains and approaches the game?
• Makar scored zero goals vs LVK, should he change how he trains and approaches the game?
• Stone scored zero goals vs Mtl, should he change how he trains and approaches the game?

The questions fans should be asking is :

• Should the GM support his stars with better complimentary players?
• Should the coach deploy his stars differently?

His stars took away the resources for the GM to provide proper support/depth.

 

[Stephen]

Feels like he never really understood what he was asking for and that's on him. He wanted the respect, but didn't understand the pressure, expectations or outcome it would bring.

In some ways I find the Matthews, Eichel and McDavid contract AAV’s to be a uniquely NHL problem.

Rewind to around 2017 and the league is celebrating the 100 year centennial and the next generation of scoring stars like quasi NBA superstars on one hand, and yet dragging its arse on a draconian hard cap and arcane playoff rules like the mom and pop house league that it always has been.

So instead of having a few more young gun teams to rival a Tampa and grow the game with excitement and glamour, you basically have young guns crashing and burning their franchises and incurring the wrath of their fanbases. You can see the same stupid inflexible NHL system working it’s magic on the Colorado Avalanche.

In the grand scheme of things, it really shouldn’t be Matthews or even Marner taking a little haircut. It should be the owners. These people aren’t growing the game. They’re just milking it. That’s why it’s just the crummy little house league it’s always been.

 

[Bluelines]

His stars took away the resources for the GM to provide proper support/depth.

Lets be honest, Dubas didn't have to offer those contracts.

 

[nsleaf]

Players all want to make as much as possible, first and foremost, especially on first contracts. It's why they have agents. I don't believe players give discounts so there will be more available for others.

 

[kb]

His stars took away the resources for the GM to provide proper support/depth.

That's why the second, third, and fourth lines scores 92% of the forward goals while only playing 60% of the total icetime in the playoffs - most at even strength or shorthanded?

People need to stop looking foolish. It's hard when there is a narrative at play, but the facts override it and blow it out of the water so they have to resort to doubling down by using feelings over facts.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lets be honest, Dubas didn't have to offer those contracts.

He did if he wanted to keep his elite young superstars.

 

[Racer88]

Absolutely nothing is a guarantee of playoff success. There are no guarantees in hockey. Just because something isn't a guarantee, it doesn't change that it's extremely important and beneficial.

I don’t think anyone is asking for a guarantee, just a little more effort and a willingness to change your preparation when your performance has been well below the cap you are paid for the last 3 years

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's why the second, third, and fourth lines scores 92% of the forward goals while only playing 60% of the total icetime in the playoffs - most at even strength or shorthanded?

People need to stop looking foolish. It's hard when there is a narrative at play, but the facts override it and blow it out of the water so they have to resort to doubling down by using feelings over facts.

I'm not the one going through every single thread defending a GM that hasn't won a playoff round at every possible opportunity.

If you want to defend the Matthews and Marner contracts, go for it, you'll look like an idiot doing so but knock yourself out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If we had cap space would you not take Hall, Hakanpaa (sp), Bogo, Nash, Dzingel, Bellmare, Janmark, Nosek, Khaira, Landeskog, Larsson??

We could have signed any of those players, except maybe Hall and Landeskog. I wouldn't touch the Landeskog contract, regardless of cap space, and I'd easily take any of our big 4 over Hall.

wouldn't it be great if we did not have to find half a dozen UFAs to fill out our lineup yearly ?

Yeah, I think we all would have preferred to not experience a once in a century global pandemic. I think we also all would have preferred if Lou hadn't sucked at drafting, so that we'd have ELC players ready. But it's still much more preferable to senselessly and shortsightedly trading away the elite young superstars that drive our team success.