Speculation: The coaching search continues

[NyQuil]

So no more country club training camps (re: coming in hot). This is a good thing.

“When pressed to expand on how he might change his approach behind the bench, Smith pointed specifically to sloppy mistakes and careless turnovers that need to be eradicated. And he suggested the program has reached the point where he should be able to bench players who are not playing up to the level that is commensurate with a playoff calibre team.

“The biggest thing is details. It has to be tightened up. The accountability towards small details becomes tighter and tighter as you want to get better. As the players get better, the mistakes have to be less and less. They know better. And the accountability has to be higher,” Smith says. “And it’s not just me, they are going hold themselves to a higher standard. They know where they want to go. Just letting guys play throughout it is not something you have with a team that expects to win. If you’re not going, someone else has to take your spot.”

Everyone always says the right things in the off-season.

 

[flyingfingers]

Most coaches lose before they win and become “great coaches”.

I keep seeing this, but is it actually true? Do most coaches lose to the extent that Travis Green did in Vancouver (or DJ Smith did here) and then go on to win?

If I look at the top-end coaches in the NHL today:

Cassidy: won right off the bat
Brind'Amour: won right off the bat
Cooper: won right off the bat
Bednar: won right off the bat
Laviolette: won right off the bat

I guess Peter Deboer had some early hiccups, but he was 41-30 his first year and went to the Finals in his 4th.

The one guy that comes to mind, I suppose, is Tocchet. But he seems to be the outlier not the norm. So I guess here we are, hoping that we also landed an outlier.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I'm not a huge fan but I won't pretend to know all the things that make a good NHL coach.

Green hasn't gotten results yet in his NHL coaching career but it sounds like he'll make sure the players put in the work.

Definitely not my first (or second) choice but I'm excited to see if he can bring success to this team.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

One thing I'm worried about is Green seeing himself in guys like Kelly and playing him more than needed, I remember that he used to do the same kind of thing with Markus Granlund when I would watch Vancouver years ago.

That could absolutely be a confirmation bias on my part, and could be something that isn't a worry whatsoever. I have no doubts that Grieg is going to be a massive part of the team under his watch, and rightfully so.

Doesn't every coach have their favorites though?

 

[Loach]

Mysteriously, even after these tough camps, his Vancouver teams never got off to good starts.

Somebody already posted that those teams always started strong, just couldn't maintain it.

 

[Icelevel]

I'm gonna be so negative about this team if they hire green. Even more negative than I have been this year.

This place will become an unbearable shit hole if green is named head coach.

People will shit on this team for years to come. I'm seeing it all.

What a shitty feeling.

What don’t you like about him? Or is this a Brady tkachuk draft day type rant?

 

[Loach]

I keep seeing this, but is it actually true? Do most coaches lose to the extent that Travis Green did in Vancouver (or DJ Smith did here) and then go on to win?

If I look at the top-end coaches in the NHL today:

Cassidy: won right off the bat
Brind'Amour: won right off the bat
Cooper: won right off the bat
Bednar: won right off the bat
Laviolette: won right off the bat

I guess Peter Deboer had some early hiccups, but he was 41-30 his first year and went to the Finals in his 4th.

The one guy that comes to mind, I suppose, is Tocchet. But he seems to be the outlier not the norm. So I guess here we are, hoping that we also landed an outlier.

Cassidy went back to Junior, then AHL after coaching Washington.

 

[NyQuil]

I keep seeing this, but is it actually true? Do most coaches lose to the extent that Travis Green did in Vancouver (or DJ Smith did here) and then go on to win?

If I look at the top-end coaches in the NHL today:

Cassidy: won right off the bat
Brind'Amour: won right off the bat
Cooper: won right off the bat
Bednar: won right off the bat
Laviolette: won right off the bat

I guess Peter Deboer had some early hiccups, but he was 41-30 his first year and went to the Finals in his 4th.

The one guy that comes to mind, I suppose, is Tocchet. But he seems to be the outlier not the norm. So I guess here we are, hoping that we also landed an outlier.

Not to the extent as our guys, no.

 

[flyingfingers]

Somebody already posted that those teams always started strong, just couldn't maintain it.

Canucks records in first 20 games under Green:

17/18: 9-8-3
18/19: 10-8-2
19/20: 10-7-3
20/21: 8-11-1
21/22: 6-12-2

I wouldn't call that strong. I'd say mediocre to start, and bad to end.

Cassidy went back to Junior, then AHL after coaching Washington.

Right but he had a 47-45-9 record in Washington before being canned. Not great, but not terrible.

 

[BondraTime]

Somebody already posted that those teams always started strong, just couldn't maintain it.

2017-18 -> 9-8-3
2018-19 -> 10-8-2
2019-20 -> 10-7-3
2020-21 -> 8-11-1
2021-22 -> 6-12-2

They were a rebuilding, weak team, they weren't expected to be burning the league up. Them taking Vegas to 7 in round 3 (covid playoffs so actually round 2) was very surprising.

 

[Icelevel]

Cassidy went back to Junior, then AHL after coaching Washington.

But by the time he got back to Boston he was 50 years old.
Younger than green is today.

 

[Sens Vader]

who cares about a hard camp if it didn't lead to results? sorry seeing athletes throw up doesn't rev up my engine

The only thing I can hope for is that its Green's true second chance, hopefully, he has become a better coach. This is it for him when you think about it, if he shits the bed here that's about it for him

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

“When pressed to expand on how he might change his approach behind the bench, Smith pointed specifically to sloppy mistakes and careless turnovers that need to be eradicated. And he suggested the program has reached the point where he should be able to bench players who are not playing up to the level that is commensurate with a playoff calibre team.

“The biggest thing is details. It has to be tightened up. The accountability towards small details becomes tighter and tighter as you want to get better. As the players get better, the mistakes have to be less and less. They know better. And the accountability has to be higher,” Smith says. “And it’s not just me, they are going hold themselves to a higher standard. They know where they want to go. Just letting guys play throughout it is not something you have with a team that expects to win. If you’re not going, someone else has to take your spot.”

Everyone always says the right things in the off-season.

not sure how that follows a hard training camp comment from Steve Lloyd, but .. If your point is that talk is cheap.. I agree. DJ said a lot of things he did not seem able to follow up on. Smith realized some areas that needed to improve... how do you do it , and then doing it are harder than saying it.

 

[NyQuil]

I think you have to take what anybody says about him with a grain of salt, that goes for Fans and analysts

That said, you can take at face value some of the things Corrado said, like how he runs a tough camp, or how he likes to run an Aggressive system. Will he get good results, who knows, Corrado didn't go so far as to say he would or wouldn't, because in the end nobody knows, but he can speak to how he operates.

Sure, but they rarely bring up the cons when a coach is hired, only the positive aspects.

And there are cons - every person has them. I’m sure Corrado knows what they are.

I don’t expect in-depth analysis on TV when a coach is hired, usually a puff piece that focuses on a few positive qualities and experiences.

 

[flyingfingers]

2017-18 -> 9-8-3
2018-19 -> 10-8-2
2019-20 -> 10-7-3
2020-21 -> 8-11-1
2021-22 -> 6-12-2

They were a rebuilding, weak team, they weren't expected to be burning the league up

If you look closer, those records were actually propped up by well above average goaltending. The underlying numbers of those Canucks teams ranked them in the bottom 6 or 7 of the league.

They were a comparable team to DJ Smith's Senators, except instead of Matt Murray and a rotating cast of AHL goalies, they had Jacob Markstrom and Thatcher Demko. Green never had a starter with a lower than .912SV%. And yet, he couldn't win.

The summary of his teams, basically, is:

Caved in defensively at 5v5.
Couldn't generate scoring chances at 5v5.
Decent powerplay.
Good goaltending.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

who cares about a hard camp if it didn't lead to results? sorry seeing athletes throw up doesn't rev up my engine

The only thing I can hope for is that its Green's true second chance, hopefully, he has become a better coach. This is it for him when you think about it, if he shits the bed here that's about it for him

Results have factors related to the strength of your team and the strength of the opposition. A hard training camp gets your team ready to compete to their abilities. The alternative does not.

 

[PlayOn]

I keep seeing this, but is it actually true? Do most coaches lose to the extend that Travis Green did in Vancouver (or DJ Smith did here) and then go on to win?

If I look at the top-end coaches in the NHL today:

Cassidy: won right off the bat
Brind'Amour: won right off the bat
Cooper: won right off the bat
Bednar: won right off the bat
Laviolette: won right off the bat

I guess Peter Deboer had some early hiccups, but he was 41-30 his first year and went to the Finals in his 4th.

The one guy that comes to mind, I suppose, is Tocchet.

But he seems to be the outlier not the norm.

So I guess here we are, hoping that we also landed an outlier.

Leaving Cassidy out since he started in Washington…

GMs of the winning coaches you listed: Don Waddell, Steve Yzerman, Joe Sakic, Jim Rutherford.

GM of Vancouver: Jim Benning.

That’s a major gap, no?

DeBoer was coaching in Florida, which was a terribly run organization before Viola bought the team. Same with Tocchet in Arizona with poor ownership.

From that perspective Green has more in common with them than the others.

Doesn’t mean his story is going to align with theirs. But I think that was sort of Corrado’s point. Vancouver was dysfunctional, morale was bad, management was interfering. You can’t really evaluate the job he did in a vacuum because his surroundings would have had impact. Ottawa is betting that he will have more success with the stability in ownership and management. Whether they’re right or wrong, time will tell.

 

[Loach]

But by the time he got back to Boston he was 50 years old.
Younger than green is today.

New Guy said Cassidy won off the rip. He spent 10 years back in junior and ahl between NHL jobs. He didn't win off the rip, he worked his ass off for another shot. I don't care and won't feed the new animal. There is just so much bullshit around here these days.

 

[flyingfingers]

Leaving Cassidy out since he started in Washington…

GMs of the winning coaches you listed: Don Waddell, Steve Yzerman, Joe Sakic, Jim Rutherford.

GM of Vancouver: Jim Benning.

That’s a major gap, no?

DeBoer was coaching in Florida, which was a terribly run organization before Viola bought the team. Same with Tocchet in Arizona with poor ownership.

From that perspective Green has more in common with them than the others.

Doesn’t mean his story is going to align with theirs. But I think that was sort of Corrado’s point. Vancouver was dysfunctional, morale was bad, management was interfering. You can’t really evaluate the job he did in a vacuum because his surroundings would have had impact. Ottawa is betting that he will have more success with the stability in ownership and management. Whether they’re right or wrong, time will tell.

Maybe. But I have no problem evaluating DJ Smith (nor do most people on this forum), who worked under even worse conditions, so I'm not going to cut Travis Green any slack because his GM was Jim Benning.

Jim Benning was a bad GM. Just like Pierre Dorion was a bad GM. But that doesn't absolve Smith or Green of their own shitty results.

 

[Micklebot]

Ive heard one of his shortcomings is he picks favourites and refuses to move away from those favourites. So he will completely forgive lapses in play for one players and glue to the bench the next guy over for doing far less egregious plays. It’s basically accountability for some and his favourites have none.

I want the coach to get our players to stop floating around and buy in to the play in the D zone. Accountability needs to be from the top down.

Fans say that about every coach it seems.

 

[flyingfingers]

New Guy said Cassidy won off the rip. He spent 10 years back in junior and ahl between NHL jobs. He didn't win off the rip, he worked his ass off for another shot. I don't care and won't feed the new animal. There is just so much bullshit around here these days.

He made the playoffs in his only full season with Washington and had an above .500% during his tenure there. And then you're right, he still had to work his ass off to get another shot.

What did Travis Green do to get another shot so fast after his much shittier start?

 

[BondraTime]

If you look closer, those records were actually propped up by well above average goaltending. The underlying numbers of those Canucks teams ranked them in the bottom 6 or 7 of the league.

They were a comparable team to DJ Smith's Senators, except instead of Matt Murray and a rotating cast of AHL goalies, they had Jacob Markstrom and Thatcher Demko. Green never had a starter with a lower than .912SV%. And yet, he couldn't win.

The summary of his teams, basically, is:

Caved in defensively at 5v5.
Couldn't generate scoring chances at 5v5.
Decent powerplay.
Good goaltending.

Yeah that makes sense, they were defintely a bad team expected to be doing poorly

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[jbeck5]

Corrado told this story weeks ago before Green was even mentioned being in Ottawa as the coach.

Listen you can be upset hammer on your keyboard all you want you dont seem to be very rational at the moment. You are reaching hard when you compare him to Mike Milburry. The fact of the matter is, the jury is out until they actually play and not just one game but over a substantial period of time. If he is terrible at his job I will gladly lament hockey ops for the decision. However I have heard enough from reliable sources, more reliable than random posters on HF boards that he has some good things and some questionable decisions made. He wasnt my first or second or third choice of realistic candidates. However until he actually coachs I wont be passing assumed judgement especially based on the sources you guys are using.

That's great and all...to each their own...

But then why are you here? Why are you actively participating in a thread where people are sharing their judgement while claiming to not pass judgement. You're just coming on here to tell others not to pass judgement? Seems like strange way of thinking on a message board.

Like "hmmm, I'm bored. I feel like going on hfboards, a forum where people share their opinions, and tell people not to share their opinions."


Obviously no one ultimately knows how this will turn out in great detail, but why even come remotely close to telling people not to share their opinions or predictions of what will happen?

What do you think the point of this message forum is for?

 

[Sens Vader]

Results have factors related to the strength of your team and the strength of the opposition. A hard training camp gets your team ready to compete to their abilities. The alternative does not.

Throwing up does not make you ready to compete, it makes you sick and overtrained

Sleepy Steve better have a huge off season