The Case for Tyler Bozak: All Tyler Bozak Discussion Here

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't think people watched the game Saturday, Toews and Hossa were close to invisible.

Who played against them? It is so hard for some to admit it.

 

[leafs in five]

I don't think people watched the game Saturday, Toews and Hossa were close to invisible.

oh dang you watched the game? never mind then. i'll defer to what you say.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

I don't think people watched the game Saturday, Toews and Hossa were close to invisible.

When Bozak and Toews were on the ice at even strength, shot attempts were 24-7 for the Hawks. Shots on goal were 12-6 Hawks.

In 6 minutes of ES ice time vs. Patrick Kane, shot attempts were 18-3 for the Hawks, shots on goal 7-2.

I'm not ragging on Bozak 'cause that's tough match-up, but let's not pretend like it was some glowing shutdown performance by anybody but Reimer.

 

[613Leafer]

This lacks way too much context.

Toews is a fantastic possession player. Bozak is a bad possession player. Bozak was hemmed in his own zone almost all game against Toews and he was getting dominated in the match-up, all the stats show it. It reminded me a lot of last year's game against St. Louis where Bozak was schooled hard by Backes.

Yep. Reimer standing on his head doesn't mean Bozak played well against Toews' line. If Reimer had a mediocre game, the score could have EASILY been 5-3 or something like that for the other team.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

When Bozak and Toews were on the ice at even strength, shot attempts were 24-7 for the Hawks. Shots on goal were 12-6 Hawks.

In 6 minutes of ES ice time vs. Patrick Kane, shot attempts were 18-3 for the Hawks, shots on goal 7-2.

I'm not ragging on Bozak 'cause that's tough match-up, but let's not pretend like it was some glowing shutdown performance.

Do you have those stats per period?..I mean the Leafs were dead tired in the third period and it took a miracle performance by Reimer for them to hang in there.

The Leafs were playing a back to back and the Black Hawks were well rested. Bozak has somewhat of an excuse,that's a tough matchup at the best of times.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

When Bozak and Toews were on the ice at even strength, shot attempts were 24-7 for the Hawks. Shots on goal were 12-6 Hawks.

In 6 minutes of ES ice time vs. Patrick Kane, shot attempts were 18-3 for the Hawks, shots on goal 7-2.

I'm not ragging on Bozak 'cause that's tough match-up, but let's not pretend like it was some glowing shutdown performance by anybody but Reimer.

Let's not pretend this.

You can not match up against Toews 26 times a game when Kadri cannot win a faceoff against the one of the league's best if his life depended on it. We saw this against Zetterberg, so while you and others want to downplay Bozak's contribution, Our coaches and Mgt staff used our best center, our alternate captain, against Chicago's best Center and Captain.

You can post corsi all you want, Leafs gave up 26 shots in the 3rd period. Chicago is a great team, it happens.

But we got the win due to Reimer, and Bozak's line turning Toews and Hossa into librarians Sat night. Proof is in the win, and atleast I heard on Leafs lunch the same observations of Towes and Hossa having quiet games as what I saw.

 

[realgoodleafs]

Should have put Kadri on more faceoffs since he was 73% on the night.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Should have put Kadri on more faceoffs since he was 73% on the night.

And 46% on the year, with sheltered faceoffs. He has never been 50% once in his entire career, you cannot be a top Center in this league and face top Centers from other teams when you are weak on the dot.

This is simply a fact.

 

[MJALLTHEWAY]

Let's not pretend this.

You can not match up against Toews 26 times a game when Kadri cannot win a faceoff against the one of the league's best if his life depended on it. We saw this against Zetterberg, so while you and others want to downplay Bozak's contribution, Our coaches and Mgt staff used our best center, our alternate captain, against Chicago's best Center and Captain.

You can post corsi all you want, Leafs gave up 26 shots in the 3rd period. Chicago is a great team, it happens.

But we got the win due to Reimer, and Bozak's line turning Toews and Hossa into librarians Sat night. Proof is in the win, and atleast I heard on Leafs lunch the same observations of Towes and Hossa having quiet games as what I saw.

lol.

If that's the case, did you know that eating ice cream means you're more likely to drown? I guess we really shouldn't eat ice cream if it's so dangerous. Oh what's that, it's not the ice cream but the weather people eat ice cream in that causes people to swim more and thus drown more? Huh, I guess correlation doesn't mean causation after all.

 

[Purity*]

Let's not pretend this.

You can not match up against Toews 26 times a game when Kadri cannot win a faceoff against the one of the league's best if his life depended on it. We saw this against Zetterberg, so while you and others want to downplay Bozak's contribution, Our coaches and Mgt staff used our best center, our alternate captain, against Chicago's best Center and Captain.

You can post corsi all you want, Leafs gave up 26 shots in the 3rd period. Chicago is a great team, it happens.

But we got the win due to Reimer, and Bozak's line turning Toews and Hossa into librarians Sat night. Proof is in the win, and atleast I heard on Leafs lunch the same observations of Towes and Hossa having quiet games as what I saw.

Lmfao, never change.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Kadri's line was much more integral to the win than Bozak's. "Sheltered" minutes lmfao, you wanna take another guess who the Hawks most dynamic and dangerous offensive player is? (I'll give you a hint, it wasn't who Tyler Bozak was against). Bozak also looked terrible on those 2 on 1's and was outshot 2-1 while he was on the ice with terrible corsi numbers, that's a pretty sad excuse for a "shutdown" game.

We won because Kadri's line controlled the play in the O-zone for most of the time we were on the ice while Reimer was a fortress in net when our other players were getting hemmed in.

And 46% on the year, with sheltered faceoffs. He has never been 50% once in his entire career, you cannot be a top Center in this league and face top Centers from other teams when you are weak on the dot.

This is simply a fact.

Evgeni Malkin can never be a top center in this league eh? 100% true fact.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Let's not pretend this.

You can not match up against Toews 26 times a game when Kadri cannot win a faceoff against the one of the league's best if his life depended on it. We saw this against Zetterberg, so while you and others want to downplay Bozak's contribution, Our coaches and Mgt staff used our best center, our alternate captain, against Chicago's best Center and Captain.

You can post corsi all you want, Leafs gave up 26 shots in the 3rd period. Chicago is a great team, it happens.

But we got the win due to Reimer, and Bozak's line turning Toews and Hossa into librarians Sat night. Proof is in the win, and atleast I heard on Leafs lunch the same observations of Towes and Hossa having quiet games as what I saw.

So, Bozak's line got outshot 2 to 1, and you think that is a shutdown performance?

Wow.

Reimer stole the game. Plain and simple.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Lmfao, never change.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Kadri's line was much more integral to the win than Bozak's. "Sheltered" minutes lmfao, you wanna take another guess who the Hawks most dynamic and dangerous offensive player is? (I'll give you a hint, it wasn't who Tyler Bozak was against). Bozak also looked terrible on those 2 on 1's.

We won because Kadri's line controlled the play in the O-zone for most of the time we were on the ice while Reimer was a fortress in net when our other players were getting hemmed in.

Evgeni Malkin can never be a top center in this league eh? 100% true fact.

Worth repeating.

Carlyle started Bozak against the Toews line 21 out of 23 starts.

Bozak took 13 of 27 d-zone starts. Next highest? Holland with 4.

Hossa 0 points, Toews 0 points. 2 Hall of fame bound players, one the 2 best Center's in the game. Nuff said.

Evgeni Malkin can never be a top center in this league eh? 100% true fact.

Irrelevant, Kadri is not half the player Malkin is, is he? Wrong thread for future reference. You used a very bad comparable here.

 

[Purity*]

Worth repeating.

Carlyle started Bozak against the Toews line 21 out of 23 starts.

Bozak took 13 of 27 d-zone starts. Next highest? Holland with 4.

Hossa 0 points, Toews 0 points. 2 Hall of fame bound players, one the 2 best Center's in the game. Nuff said.



Kadri is not half the player Malkin is, is he? wrong thread for future reference.

Yup, you'll be getting a lot of D-zone starts when you're busy getting hemmed in all night. Also makes sense that he was outshot 2-1 ont he ice. Reimer was on fire and saved everyone's hide.

And where exactly did I bring up Kadri? You were the one who brought up Kadri and you accuse me of going off-topic? You said you can't be a top-center in this league if you're not good on the dot. Malkin, Tavares, and even Couterier who's considered one of the best defensive centers in the league are all bad on dots. Guess they'll never have a hope in hell at being one of the best centers int he league.

This is a pretty cheap cop-out.

And 46% on the year, with sheltered faceoffs. He has never been 50% once in his entire career, you cannot be a top Center in this league and face top Centers from other teams when you are weak on the dot.

This is simply a fact.

You love to make faceoffs appear to be so much more important than they actually are just to support your arguments. I'd point out which logical fallacy you're using but then you'll just throw it around everywhere like you've been doing with "strawman" for the last little while.

 

[zeke]

And 46% on the year, with sheltered faceoffs. He has never been 50% once in his entire career, you cannot be a top Center in this league and face top Centers from other teams when you are weak on the dot.

This is simply a fact.

I always wonder why people focus so much on faceoffs.

the difference between 45% and 55% in one game is just a couple of faceoffs. How could that possibly be that important?

Last year the worst guys to take 300+ faceoffs were:

T.Ennis: 38.7% (625)
P.Elias: 40.8% (677)
S.Gionta: 41.0% (581)
T.Seguin: 41.5% (677)
A.Loktionov: 41.7% (369)
C.Coyle: 41.9% (458)
M.Scheifele: 42.2% (785)
S.Matthias: 42.3% (433)
B.Nelson: 42.4% (451)
C.Soderberg: 42.4% (328)
R.N-Hopkins: 42.4% (1280)
N.MacKinnon: 42.9% (452)
B.Schenn: 43.2% (685)
A.Shaw: 43.3% (684)
M.Ribeiro: 43.3% (903)
R.Strome: 44.1% (374)
B.Laich: 44.1% (460)
A.henrique: 44.3% (918)
P.Regin: 44.4% (396)
V.Lecavalier: 44.6% (448)
B.Pirri: 44.9% (454)
D.Bolland: 45.1% (337)
D.Stepan: 45.1% (1512)
N.Kadri: 45.3% (1127)
R.Nash: 45.9% (666)
S.Monahan: 45.9% (1036)
E.Fehr: 46.0% (426)
O.Jokinen: 46.0% (1330)
M.Cliche: 46.0% (719)


Lotsa good centers on that list.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yup, you'll be getting a lot of D-zone starts when you're busy getting hemmed in all night. Also makes sense that he was outshot 2-1 ont he ice. Reimer was on fire and saved everyone's hide.

And where exactly did I bring up Kadri? You were the one who brought up Kadri and you accuse me of going off-topic? You said you can't be a top-center in this league if you're not good on the dot. Malkin, Tavares, and even Couterier who's considered one of the best defensive centers in the league are all bad on dots. Guess they'll never have a hope in hell at being one of the best centers int he league.

This is a pretty cheap cop-out.

Yes I can, when you look at Kopitar, Crosby, Bergeron, Toews. How many cups do they have? Great faceoff men.

You cannot be a good #1C on a contender when you stink in faceoffs.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I always wonder why people focus so much on faceoffs.

the difference between 45% and 55% in one game is just a couple of faceoffs. How could that possibly be that important?

Last year the worst guys to take 300+ faceoffs were:

T.Ennis: 38.7% (625)
P.Elias: 40.8% (677)
S.Gionta: 41.0% (581)
T.Seguin: 41.5% (677)
A.Loktionov: 41.7% (369)
C.Coyle: 41.9% (458)
M.Scheifele: 42.2% (785)
S.Matthias: 42.3% (433)
B.Nelson: 42.4% (451)
C.Soderberg: 42.4% (328)
R.N-Hopkins: 42.4% (1280)
N.MacKinnon: 42.9% (452)
B.Schenn: 43.2% (685)
A.Shaw: 43.3% (684)
M.Ribeiro: 43.3% (903)
R.Strome: 44.1% (374)
B.Laich: 44.1% (460)
A.henrique: 44.3% (918)
P.Regin: 44.4% (396)
V.Lecavalier: 44.6% (448)
B.Pirri: 44.9% (454)
D.Bolland: 45.1% (337)
D.Stepan: 45.1% (1512)
N.Kadri: 45.3% (1127)
R.Nash: 45.9% (666)
S.Monahan: 45.9% (1036)
E.Fehr: 46.0% (426)
O.Jokinen: 46.0% (1330)
M.Cliche: 46.0% (719)


Lotsa good centers on that list.

Want to compare? Bet you the list is a lot larger.

 

[Purity*]

Yes I can, when you look at Kopitar, Crosby, Bergeron, Toews. How many cups do they have? Great faceoff men.

You cannot be a good #1C on a contender when you stink in faceoffs.

This is a red herring. Not only does it detract from the previous argument, the list above shows lots of good centers who aren't good on faceoffs. Bozak has never been a great faceoff guy either. And besides that, correlation does not equal causation. Gretzky wasn't that great with faceoffs either (certainly no Yzerman) and it didn't stop him from being the best center ever.

You think Bozak was a shutdown force vs Toews even though he was outshot 2-1 and horribly outpossessed. Reimer bailed him out, that's my opinion anyway, you can think whatever you want.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This is a red herring. Not only does it detract from the previous argument, the list above shows lots of good centers who aren't good on faceoffs. Bozak has never been a great faceoff guy either. And besides that, correlation does not equal causation. Gretzky wasn't that great with faceoffs either (certainly no Yzerman) and it didn't stop him from being the best center ever.

You think Bozak was a shutdown force vs Toews even though he was outshot 2-1 and horribly outpossessed. Reimer bailed him out, that's my opinion anyway, you can think whatever you want.

You should do yourself some enlightening reading and not solely from pension puppets.

Faceoffs are a very key part of winning championships. You need your top centers to win draws. This is not even a discussion point.

To deny this, you really do not understand hockey or the history of what it took to win a cup in a series.

 

[diceman934]

This is a red herring. Not only does it detract from the previous argument, the list above shows lots of good centers who aren't good on faceoffs. Bozak has never been a great faceoff guy either. And besides that, correlation does not equal causation. Gretzky wasn't that great with faceoffs either (certainly no Yzerman) and it didn't stop him from being the best center ever.

You think Bozak was a shutdown force vs Toews even though he was outshot 2-1 and horribly outpossessed. Reimer bailed him out, that's my opinion anyway, you can think whatever you want.

Crosby is sitting at 49.5% if that is a great percentage.....then Hell Kadri is almost an elite center then

 

[Purity*]

You should do yourself some enlightening reading and not solely from pension puppets.

Faceoffs are a very key part of winning championships. You need your top centers to win draws. This is not even a discussion point.

To deny this, you really do not understand hockey or the history of cup winning series.

Not only is it an opinion-based argument, there's tons of other factors that could be correlated to winning championships.


The east's representative NYR in the cup finals was 12th in faceoffs. LA was 2nd granted, but the Hawks who nearly beat them were all the way down at 10th as well. All the other top-10 FO teams never even made it to the final 4.

Now, let's look at the year before.

The cup-winning Blackhawks were 14th in the playoffs in FO%, the LA Kings were 12th. Boston sits as the only team in the final 4 that was top 5 in FO%. All the other teams in the top-10 FO%, all 1st and second round teams.

There seems to be very little correlation between FO% and going deep in the playoffs.


My "understanding of hockey" (very derogatory way to respond to me btw especially considering how unpopular your opinions are around here) seems to be a lot different than yours.

You've been proven wrong enough today, you seem to have dodged all my other arguments so I'm done.

 

[613Leafer]

A few things on the above debate:

1) Whether or not Kadri is good at faceoffs has NOTHING to do with how effective Bozak is as a #1 Centre or how effective Bozak was at shutting down Toews/Hossa. Neither Kadri nor Bozak are good #1 Cs in this league. Neither are good defensively, and neither are elite offensively.

2) Not that it's particularly relevant to Bozak, but Kadri IS bad at faceoffs, and it's a problem. There's no use debating that. If he were a 50%+ FO guy, it could improve his effectiveness quite a bit. Starting off with the puck an extra ~5-8% of the time means the other team ultimately scores less when you're on the ice and you ultimately score more (all else being equal) just because of who has possession more often. It's an advantage both defensively and offensively.

3) Reimer standing on his head and making 47 saves means HE was the one that neutered Toews/Hossa, NOT Bozak or the team in general. If you're a forward with the job to shut down the top opposition line, and you end up being on the ice for a boatload of shots against, then you failed at your job. Whether or not the goalie then does a good/bad job is irrelevant on how you handled yours, which was to limit shots/chances against the goalie.

 

[Duke Silver]

At their current faceoff win percentages, if both Kadri and Bozak took 1500 faceoffs this season...

Kadri: 46.2% @ 1500 = 693 faceoff wins = 8.45 wins/game
Bozak: 53.6% @ 1500 = 804 faceoff wins = 9.81 wins/game

Is that difference of 1.4 faceoff wins per game significant at all? At all?

 

[indigobuffalo]

Not only is it an opinion-based argument, there's tons of other factors that could be correlated to winning championships.


The east's representative NYR in the cup finals was 12th in faceoffs. LA was 2nd granted, but the Hawks who nearly beat them were all the way down at 10th as well. All the other top-10 FO teams never even made it to the final 4.

Now, let's look at the year before.

The cup-winning Blackhawks were 14th in the playoffs in FO%, the LA Kings were 12th. Boston sits as the only team in the final 4 that was top 5 in FO%. All the other teams in the top-10 FO%, all 1st and second round teams.

There seems to be very little correlation between FO% and going deep in the playoffs.


My "understanding of hockey" (very derogatory way to respond to me btw especially considering how unpopular your opinions are around here) seems to be a lot different than yours.

You've been proven wrong enough today, you seem to have dodged all my other arguments so I'm done.

Their regular season FO number... but how were they in the playoffs compared to the regular season? Not sure of the answer myself but I don't think anyone ever won a cup in the regular season so that's not really addressing Interactif's statement.

Ah okay so it is playoff FO%. So the Kings did win and were 2nd OA in playoff FO%.

I'd say it matters but not as much as other factors.

 

[Purity*]

Their regular season FO number... but how were they in the playoffs compared to the regular season? Not sure of the answer myself but I don't think anyone ever won a cup in the regular season so that's not really addressing Interactif's statement.

Nope, they're playoff FO numbers...

 

[indigobuffalo]

At their current faceoff win percentages, if both Kadri and Bozak took 1500 faceoffs this season...

Kadri: 46.2% @ 1500 = 693 faceoff wins = 8.45 wins/game
Bozak: 53.6% @ 1500 = 804 faceoff wins = 9.81 wins/game

Is that difference of 1.4 faceoff wins per game significant at all? At all?

It's not insignificant, but FO wins form only a part of the total C package.

As far as a Kadri v Bozak comparison goes, one has 10+ pts the other doesn't. That matters too.

Kadri's possession numbers may be good but he's not getting the points.

Bozak has also been a statistically high shot accuracy player in his time with the Leafs, so his possession numbers don't need to be as high to generate the same offensive output.

Then you look at defensive acumen. Did Kadri get a breakaway on the PK by having a good active stick while pressuring the blue line? I thought it was Bozak...

Look at d-zone starts. Bozak got 21 of 23 vs Toews. People may dispute Carlyle as a good coach (not like he's ever won anything like a Cup though huh...) but, you know, he's a former Norris Trophy winner so I give him a few nods for that at least. Anyways, if he feels playing Bozak v Toews give his team the best chance to win, doesn't that endorsement make a big difference?

Whether it's because Bozak has a better chance of winning the draw or he just plays a smarter defensive game, Bozak is on the ice when it matters.

That being said, I noticed that the guys on the ice at the end of the game were Komarov, Winnik, and Santorelli.

So that's our top shutdown line (and they're not really even a line).

Between Kadri and Bozak though, I'd say they are relatively close together and both are having great seasons despite Kadri not producing points, but both are doing good jobs. Kadri's production is benefitting from Kessel and Bozak is still making it count with JVR, so things are looking good.

Kadri and Bozak are also capable of being retained, and if Bozak spends significant time on the "2nd" line then re-signing him should be roughly on-par with his current contract.

All these things are good.

If the Leafs ever had to decide between the two though, I think Kadri fetches more on the market so IMO the Leafs would trade Kadri simply because he could return better value.

But if the Leafs get offered equal value for Bozak and Kadri, they'd move out Bozak.