OT: The Avalounge (mod warning - No Politics)

[redacted]

I mean, he isn't wrong in some of those points. People tend to gravitate towards images of popular bands like album covers and I cringe whenever I see somebody wear a Pink Floyd shirt and I write this liking their music. Likewise with Iron Madien. Likewise with Paramore, which people strictly listen to simply because the lead singer has double pairing of "X" chromosomes.

But Bowie not being good... get the F outta here.

 

[Ceremony]

Paramore! seph definitely knows what the kids are listening to.

 

[S E P H]

But Bowie not being good... get the F outta here.

I never mentioned I agree with all of them. Genesis, Pink Floyd, DT, and Bowie are all brilliant even if some of them are overrated like Floyd, but I do think some of Bowie's popularity comes from the fact that he was weird - or at least - dressed weird for the time. I still like him and Ceremony makes a bloody good point, like Boris Johnson level good when referring to The Beatles, even if I found some songs of theirs I do appreciate once in a while (Hello-Goodbye, Strawberry Fields, etc.).

 

[S E P H]

Metal is boring and childish and you're not going to convince me a band with album art like that is remotely different at any point in their career

Again, I can't disagree with this. A lot of music I like is metal, but I am also a realist and you would not believe the amount of elitism that survives and propagates its way like a snake through the subgenres of metal. It is also a genre of music that attracts skinheads, racists, rebels, and other lowlifes that probably have personality disorders. In a philosophical way, you are absolutely dead-on that the genre is completely filled with children. However, you are also missing the point that children have on basis, a much more creative brain than the mature adult brain and why music in a artistic-creative form is more prominent in metal than in other mature musical genres...whatever those may be...

I am patiently waiting for McMetal and RockLobster to eventually find their way to this discussion.

 

[redacted]

Again, I can't disagree with this. A lot of music I like is metal, but I am also a realist and you would not believe the amount of elitism that survives and propagates its way like a snake through the subgenres of metal. It is also a genre of music that attracts skinheads, racists, rebels, and other lowlifes that probably have personality disorders. In a philosophical way, you are absolutely dead-on that the genre is completely filled with children. However, you are also missing the point that children have on basis, a much more creative brain than the mature adult brain and why music in a artistic-creative form is more prominent in metal than in other mature musical genres...whatever those may be...

I am patiently waiting for McMetal and RockLobster to eventually find their way to this discussion.

You know RL is going to ramble about the Beatles.

 

[Ceremony]

I like how I post something so deliberately provocative that seph, master of the craft, reads it and is sat nodding. I must have done well.

 

[McMetal]

Again, I can't disagree with this. A lot of music I like is metal, but I am also a realist and you would not believe the amount of elitism that survives and propagates its way like a snake through the subgenres of metal. It is also a genre of music that attracts skinheads, racists, rebels, and other lowlifes that probably have personality disorders. In a philosophical way, you are absolutely dead-on that the genre is completely filled with children. However, you are also missing the point that children have on basis, a much more creative brain than the mature adult brain and why music in a artistic-creative form is more prominent in metal than in other mature musical genres...whatever those may be...

I am patiently waiting for McMetal and RockLobster to eventually find their way to this discussion.

You're absolutely right about elitism in metal. There's a ton of gatekeeping, even in the genres I like which tend to be the ones the death and black metal snobs look down on. It's always frustrated me about the scene that some people want to spend so much time and effort policing what is and is not "metal", as if it's important at all.

My take is that musical taste is purely subjective. Metal's not for everybody, but at the same time, I'll passionately argue that there's so much more to metal than most people think. It's ignorant to write off the entire genre, because there is SO much variety and diversity within that umbrella. I firmly believe that metal would be a lot more popular if people knew what it really was (and if goddamn metalheads would stop making the scene so hostile to newbies).

 

[S E P H]

I like how I post something so deliberately provocative that seph, master of the craft, reads it and is sat nodding. I must have done well.

We've always had histrionic tendencies lol.

 

[redacted]

You're absolutely right about elitism in metal. There's a ton of gatekeeping, even in the genres I like which tend to be the ones the death and black metal snobs look down on. It's always frustrated me about the scene that some people want to spend so much time and effort policing what is and is not "metal", as if it's important at all.

My take is that musical taste is purely subjective. Metal's not for everybody, but at the same time, I'll passionately argue that there's so much more to metal than most people think. It's ignorant to write off the entire genre, because there is SO much variety and diversity within that umbrella. I firmly believe that metal would be a lot more popular if people knew what it really was (and if goddamn metalheads would stop making the scene so hostile to newbies).

Metalheads are the biggest F nerds out there. I love metal, but serious nerds.

 

[Foppberg]

You know RL is going to ramble about the Beatles.

Rightfully so!!! #TeamLobster

 

[redacted]

Rightfully so!!! #TeamLobster

 

[Foppberg]

 

[5280]

I’ve tried Arcade Fire and can’t get into them for some reason. I will listen to damned near anything, too. A couple of their well played songs are good, but their albums I zone out on super quickly.

I support anyone going to see live music, though, so have fun Ceremony!

 

[redacted]

I have a problem with TeamLobster

 

[McMetal]

Metalheads are the biggest F nerds out there. I love metal, but serious nerds.

No arguments from me. At least my kind in the power/symphonic world are open about it, the "Metal is Serious Business" crowd would probably take umbrage with that, but the metalhead community at large is really no different than any other type of fandom, except some people take it WAY too seriously.

 

[redacted]

No arguments from me. At least my kind in the power/symphonic world are open about it, the "Metal is Serious Business" crowd would probably take umbrage with that, but the metalhead community at large is really no different than any other type of fandom, except some people take it WAY too seriously.

Yeah… the guys who can’t stand anything outside a set structure irritate me. Like Black Metal has to be x, y, and z sort of stuff. IE one of my favorite bands is Deafheaven (despite their new album just being okay) and I find with the metal fans I’m surrounded with that they are near universally hated for being too happy. Guess they have to be sorry for Sunbather being a pink album cover.

 

[McMetal]

Yeah… the guys who can’t stand anything outside a set structure irritate me. Like Black Metal has to be x, y, and z sort of stuff. IE one of my favorite bands is Deafheaven (despite their new album just being okay) and I find with the metal fans I’m surrounded with that they are near universally hated for being too happy. Guess they have to be sorry for Sunbather being a pink album cover.

Deafheaven is considered "happy"? I mean, I guess compared to Dissection and Burzum... Black metal fans are a special breed. I knew a few back in the day who were really weird individuals. Their whole identity was wrapped up in being nihilistic and grim, and while that's definitely not universal to black metal fans, it seems to be pretty common with people who are drawn to that level of extremity in their music.

I tend to shy away from the extreme stuff more and more as I get older. I still certainly listen to it fairly regularly, but I'm being drawn more and more to the melodic side of metal these days. Most of what makes it to the top of my best-of lists is power and symphonic metal, it's gone from maybe 10% of my listening 20 years ago to probably 70% now. I guess I'm just not as angry as I used to be, I'm more into the soaring melodies and big major key symphonic stuff, I swoon for Visions of Atlantis and Beast in Black.

 

[redacted]

Deafheaven is considered "happy"? I mean, I guess compared to Dissection and Burzum... Black metal fans are a special breed. I knew a few back in the day who were really weird individuals. Their whole identity was wrapped up in being nihilistic and grim, and while that's definitely not universal to black metal fans, it seems to be pretty common with people who are drawn to that level of extremity in their music.

I tend to shy away from the extreme stuff more and more as I get older. I still certainly listen to it fairly regularly, but I'm being drawn more and more to the melodic side of metal these days. Most of what makes it to the top of my best-of lists is power and symphonic metal, it's gone from maybe 10% of my listening 20 years ago to probably 70% now. I guess I'm just not as angry as I used to be, I'm more into the soaring melodies and big major key symphonic stuff, I swoon for Visions of Atlantis and Beast in Black.

Yeah I get a kick out of Deafheaven being happy... like the only things are one pink album cover and they aren't complete nihilists.

I always listen to a bit of everything. I can enjoy the extreme metal and I can enjoy bluegrass... if it is good I can dig it. I can say being in my late 30s now... pits are no longer a thing for me, but I haven't seen a legit pit in a while either.

 

[John Mandalorian]

It's always amusing to see people become heavily philosophical with music.

 

[redacted]

On a different note it seems I have settled into being a 13-15 handicap so far this spring (calculated by an app... not an official number, so some grain of salt). I ended last year having spurts of play there, but I'm settling into shooting low 80s golf (or 38-43 on 9 holes). I'd really like to take another step and get into single digit, but I'm enjoying the hell out of golf right now. I still can't get the distance I want, but getting closer (sans driver).

 

[S E P H]

You're absolutely right about elitism in metal. There's a ton of gatekeeping, even in the genres I like which tend to be the ones the death and black metal snobs look down on. It's always frustrated me about the scene that some people want to spend so much time and effort policing what is and is not "metal", as if it's important at all.

My take is that musical taste is purely subjective. Metal's not for everybody, but at the same time, I'll passionately argue that there's so much more to metal than most people think. It's ignorant to write off the entire genre, because there is SO much variety and diversity within that umbrella. I firmly believe that metal would be a lot more popular if people knew what it really was (and if goddamn metalheads would stop making the scene so hostile to newbies).

I see metal like anime, awesome stuff, but the fans just really ruin it for the rest of the folks who just want to watch and enjoy it damn it lol. I am not sure what @henchman24 means by "nerd" because I am not sure what the word nerd means anymore. It used to be the blokes who liked math and Star Wars, but now you get a push-up bra, wear cute cat-ears, and you can stream making thousands weekly. Are there genres of metal that are nerdy? Sure, I agree especially within the Power/Symphonic scene. Is it nerdy to shred neoclassical riffs and melt the Earth? Perhaps. However, I appreciate the musical talent that you find in metal and that is one genre you get more of the gifted musicians compared to any other genre not named Jazz. Good, Miley Cyrus can sing about partying in the USA and 50 Cent can talk about banging hookers all he wants, give me a stupid Alestorm song about getting drunk over those two any day of the week (not generalising all rap here). Or a Blind Guardian song talking about warcraft or whatever they sing about nowadays.

I might be going on a rant now, but the deeper and remote genres you reach, the more nonconformists are there to kick you out of the welcome mat. The darker and heavier stuff are the ones that the most unwelcoming and I think they make it that way, that's why Avenge Sevenfold created nicknames for everyone and that pissed off like 60% of their fanbase at the time.

Yeah I get a kick out of Deafheaven being happy... like the only things are one pink album cover and they aren't complete nihilists.

I always listen to a bit of everything. I can enjoy the extreme metal and I can enjoy bluegrass... if it is good I can dig it. I can say being in my late 30s now... pits are no longer a thing for me, but I haven't seen a legit pit in a while either.

Whatever Devin Townsend makes (besides his really weird just random noise side to him) is probably my go to nowadays. He has this sixth sense of being able to limit sections or songs so they don't go overboard in too extreme or too melodic, but a brilliant blend between the two for albums. I still listen to everything from Fleshgod Apocalypse to Girls Generation, but yeah I tried listening to Slayer like a month ago and every song sounds the same. Then I tried to listen to As I Lay Dying and that suffers from the same problem. I am finding myself liking bands that can do a variety of genres instead of sticking with one path and making the same album over and over again. Linkin Park is the opposite, they had an awesome style and decided to go all weak and mainstream on us.

 

[McMetal]

Yeah I get a kick out of Deafheaven being happy... like the only things are one pink album cover and they aren't complete nihilists.

I always listen to a bit of everything. I can enjoy the extreme metal and I can enjoy bluegrass... if it is good I can dig it. I can say being in my late 30s now... pits are no longer a thing for me, but I haven't seen a legit pit in a while either.

Yeah, I got a concussion in a pit a while ago and it really cooled me off on the whole idea. Total accident, but I took a shoulder to the chin and I literally saw stars, probably the worst I ever got my bell rung in my life. After that, the pit lost its appeal, and there really aren't a lot of them at power metal shows anyway, so I haven't been in one in quite some time.

 

[McMetal]

I see metal like anime, awesome stuff, but the fans just really ruin it for the rest of the folks who just want to watch and enjoy it damn it lol. I am not sure what @henchman24 means by "nerd" because I am not sure what the word nerd means anymore. It used to be the blokes who liked math and Star Wars, but now you get a push-up bra, wear cute cat-ears, and you can stream making thousands weekly. Are there genres of metal that are nerdy? Sure, I agree especially within the Power/Symphonic scene. Is it nerdy to shred neoclassical riffs and melt the Earth? Perhaps. However, I appreciate the musical talent that you find in metal and that is one genre you get more of the gifted musicians compared to any other genre not named Jazz. Good, Miley Cyrus can sing about partying in the USA and 50 Cent can talk about banging hookers all he wants, give me a stupid Alestorm song about getting drunk over those two any day of the week (not generalising all rap here). Or a Blind Guardian song talking about warcraft or whatever they sing about nowadays.

I might be going on a rant now, but the deeper and remote genres you reach, the more nonconformists are there to kick you out of the welcome mat. The darker and heavier stuff are the ones that the most unwelcoming and I think they make it that way, that's why Avenge Sevenfold created nicknames for everyone and that pissed off like 60% of their fanbase at the time.

I see "nerd" as a more general term, for people who are single-mindedly passionate about something they love. So you can be a nerd about anime or a nerd about death metal, or even, to be frank, a nerd about sports. It kind of runs counter to the jock/nerd dichotomy people think of, but really, is knowing the names of all the Avs prospects in other leagues really that much different from knowing the names of all the elves in Lord of the Rings? It has exactly as much effect on your life, after all.

I'm a nerd about a lot of things, heavy metal among them, but I would also consider myself a bit of a nerd about hockey as well. It's all part of how I approach my hobbies. Some of which fall under the traditional "nerd" umbrella, some that don't.

Metalheads, though, are a different breed when it comes to gatekeeping. I think there's a desire to keep metal underground and "special", a lot of metalheads take pride in being counterculture and different from others. I remember when Sabaton, for example, was an underground darling, but then they got popular, and now everybody hates them because they've got filthy casuals listening to them. There's no sin in metal greater than breaking into mainstream appeal.

It depends on the community you're in, though. For some reason r/powermetal is a really laid back community overall, with very few elitists that I've seen. But the old message boards I used to post on for heavy metal were just full of snobs and shitheads. I learned a lot from hanging around them, but a lot of them just weren't great people. I'm glad I've found some more wholesome communities that fit my tastes and attitudes a lot better than the places I was hanging out when I was a teenager. It's way more relaxing to be around people who are more into the music than the culture, because the culture can be toxic sometimes.

 

[Freudian]

I’ve tried Arcade Fire and can’t get into them for some reason. I will listen to damned near anything, too. A couple of their well played songs are good, but their albums I zone out on super quickly.

I support anyone going to see live music, though, so have fun Ceremony!

I do enjoy Arcade Fire (The Suburbs is a great album and Sprawl II is one of the best pop songs ever written) and I thought their new album was good but they do have this tendency to be too smart for their own good, if it makes sense.

I tend to get passionate about them and then forget about them, which isn't the greatest praise I guess.

Since the deity Bowie was mentioned in this thread there is an excellent (old) video of him and Arcade Fire playing live at some pointless gala ages ago:

 

[Balthazar]

I'm f***ing sick of those pieces of shit who get in a public place and start shooting randomly at unarmed citizens. A grocery store a saturday afternoon?

Analyze the problem and find a f***ing solution.