OT: The Avalounge but every time someone posts the quality declines

[Foppberg]

I haven't read through the Ansari thing yet, so I can't comment on that.

It is kind of weird as a guy to know where things are falling anymore. Most women I have dated over the past few years want the man to make the first sexual move and to be the aggressor during the situation. They also don't tend to like a guy asking if what his is doing is okay all that time. Yeah there are non-verbal clues... but expecting the subtle ones to always get through is expecting a little much IMO. I know I have defaulted towards not being aggressive at all at the beginning and that is a turn off to many women... but better to be safe there than for it to turn into an issue down the line. What has been considered normal for years is being transitioned into pressure that leads to harassment (and that is likely the right thing to transition to)... but we need to move towards it being more acceptable for men to be less aggressive in sexual situations, not just from a harassment standpoint, but an overall standpoint in a relationship. IE don't expect a guy to be willing to choke you the first time you have sex in today's day and age.

I remember Bill Burr did a bit about that, how a girl was into that stuff and he was like what..? why do you keep putting my hand on your throat? I thought she was testing my core strength or something, and she was like I dunno.. just squeeze a little.. and he was like OH, well that's really something we should address before hand, what do you expect? Me to just rape you on the off chance you're into that shit? The lines are becoming so blurred and are so different for every person that a quick 1-2 second conversation could help both parties so much.

 

[agentblack]

I remember Bill Burr did a bit about that, how a girl was into that stuff and he was like what..? why do you keep putting my hand on your throat? I thought she was testing my core strength or something, and she was like I dunno.. just squeeze a little.. and he was like OH, well that's really something we should address before hand, what do you expect? Me to just rape you on the off chance you're into that ****? The lines are becoming so blurred and are so different for every person that a quick 1-2 second conversation could help both parties so much.

lol , that hilarious but seriously i feel like most dudes would be fine with the casual sex talk ,
ladies otoh it feels like alot of them think they're in Sense and Sensibility lol.
Then again I wonder if guys are afraid to bring anything up because they'll be called perverts and sickos ,or just get shut down , etc and the girl like runs away.

Everyone acts so damn coy all the time, it s annoying.

 

[Foppberg]

lol , that hilarious but seriously i feel like most dudes would be fine with the casual sex talk ,
ladies otoh it feels like alot of them think they're in Sense and Sensibility lol.
Then again I wonder if guys are afraid to bring anything up because they'll be called perverts and sickos ,or just get shut down , etc and the girl like runs away.

Everyone acts so damn coy all the time, it s annoying.

Definitely a part of it. Goes both ways too though, I think both sexes are too scared to say what they actually want with the fear of being labelled a freak or f***ed up. Anecdotal, but especially in small towns where that stuff spreads like wildfire and lasts forever.

And yeah being coy is my #1 annoyance when it comes to dating, if I'm interested I'm going to make it known. Not send you a message and then wait a week to send the next one with the illusion that I've just been that busy.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Asking or conversing simply isn't part of the charm for some people. If she's into everything as much as you are, it's generally pretty easy to figure out where it's headed (or not headed). Reading stories lately is just scary though. I mean there's been times where I've asked just before it happened because the pace of how things were going were a little more innocent and I just wasn't sure and didn't want to push anything on. However more often than not, the body language and signs were more than enough for me to know exactly what to do next and if I opened my mouth in the wrong way it likely would have changed the mood completely.

I never would have ever considered any of my past situations one where she may have felt uncomfortable or not okay with it but when I read more and more stories let's just say I'm glad I don't have to deal with that pressure anymore now that I haven't been single in nearly 6 years.

 

[agentblack]

Asking or conversing simply isn't part of the charm for some people. If she's into everything as much as you are, it's generally pretty easy to figure out where it's headed (or not headed). Reading stories lately is just scary though. I mean there's been times where I've asked just before it happened because the pace of how things were going were a little more innocent and I just wasn't sure and didn't want to push anything on. However more often than not, the body language and signs were more than enough for me to know exactly what to do next and if I opened my mouth in the wrong way it likely would have changed the mood completely.

I never would have ever considered any of my past situations one where she may have felt uncomfortable or not okay with it but when I read more and more stories let's just say I'm glad I don't have to deal with that pressure anymore now that I haven't been single in nearly 6 years.

And see i think thats unfortunate. Ruining the mood? I mean i get it but this isnt some Julia Roberts movie, id rather a straight bro friend of mine be upfront about what he wants than end up getting accused of sexual assault because he cant read sign language, smoke signals or whatever it is you guys do.

Also let me say im glad you guys want to talk about this a bit, i dont want this getting into some war of words ,and i would if i were on another site. As soon as you express an opinion people just attack you and shut down, so thanks
it really, at the end of the day doesnt affect me, i just find the whole debate important more so than the metoo movement which is like duh dude thats assault

 

[Cousin Eddie]

And see i think thats unfortunate. Ruining the mood? I mean i get it but this isnt some Julia Roberts movie, id rather a straight bro friend of mine be upfront about what he wants than end up getting accused of sexual assault because he cant read sign language, smoke signals or whatever it is you guys do.

Also let me say im glad you guys want to talk about this a bit, i dont want this getting into some war of words ,and i would if i were on another site. As soon as you express an opinion people just attack you and shut down, so thanks
it really, at the end of the day doesnt affect me, i just find the whole debate important more so than the metoo movement which is like duh dude thats assault

Hey and if I was single and still doing that kind of thing I'd be right there with you because that shit is terrifying. But I wasn't back when I was single. The world has changed a lot since then. Doesn't mean I was right back then, and it probably doesn't mean things are right now. I'm just saying how things went for me. I mean I feel I was pretty good at reading signs. Even after one nighters girls found a way to look me up and try to continue things so I know there never was a case where I was in the wrong. But I certainly realize now that I'm lucky.

 

[Foppberg]

The landscape has definitely changed, for the better in some ways but also a lot blurrier in others. As a single guy I just try to be aware of the cues and such, but I do enjoy these kind of conversations. I know a lot of people get awkward or uncomfortable but I'd rather know than not know.

That's one thing that is nice about having a close girl friend, you can ask questions and talk about certain topics that otherwise you wouldn't really get to learn about. I remember one night at my friends party, late into the morning when everyone was starting to pass out me, a close girl friend of mine, and 2 other people got into a conversation about feminism and all the stuff that's going on and it was great. I mean my opinion didn't really change that much, and she wanted to punch me in the face a few times, but it was interesting to hear an in-depth explanation/way of thinking that I didn't have.

 

[agentblack]

Its amazing something as simple as talking and dialogue is still soooo damn hard for alot of people. But some debates are mine fields.

 

[RockLobster]

In response to the Ansari stuff, here's a female writer's response to it from The Atlantic:

The Humiliation of Aziz Ansari

I find the whole situation to muddy the waters of the real purpose of the movement (Weinstein is a f***ing monster and has deserved what's happened to him, Spacey's behavior in the past, and as recent as on the set of House of Cards, is abhorrent, and I'm sure there are others out there). Part of the reason I feel that way is, as I recall (and correct me if I'm wrong), the moment "Grace" definitively said no and wanted to leave, Ansari didn't pursue it anymore and got her a car. Does it excuse his sleazy and aggressive tactics? No, but as of right now I'm not sure if this is a clear cut case of sexual assault. At the very least, it does definitely serve as a cautionary tale to being open with one's partner things you are/are not comfortable with.

 

[agentblack]

In response to the Ansari stuff, here's a female writer's response to it from The Atlantic:

The Humiliation of Aziz Ansari

I find the whole situation to muddy the waters of the real purpose of the movement (Weinstein is a ****ing monster and has deserved what's happened to him, Spacey's behavior in the past, and as recent as on the set of House of Cards, is abhorrent, and I'm sure there are others out there). Part of the reason I feel that way is, as I recall (and correct me if I'm wrong), the moment "Grace" definitively said no and wanted to leave, Ansari didn't pursue it anymore and got her a car. Does it excuse his sleazy and aggressive tactics? No, but as of right now I'm not sure if this is sexual assault. At the very least, it does definitely serve as a cautionary tale to being open with one's partner about what things are.

I too feel like it doesnt belong entirely in the same convo of guys like Weinstein, i think there is some intersection because of his status and Grace does work in the same industry (i think thats how they met) i believe so maybe she was afraid of some career reprisal. But i think this whole thing belongs in a much broader topic. Whereas the Weinstein issue belongs in a workplace harassment /men using their power to abuse people under them etc. This was like a dating sitch gone terribly wrong. And hopefully itll lead to more open dialogue about casual sex...its just a damn shame that its 2018 and we still need to brush up on these things.

 

[Foppberg]

Yeah, this wasn't sexual harassment. Neither was the Louis CK thing, Weinstein and Spacey are next level bad.

 

[RockLobster]

Yeah, this wasn't sexual harassment. Neither was the Louis CK thing, Weinstein and Spacey are next level bad.

I will disagree on the CK situation, but that's just me. Ansari's situation involves multiple, consensual I guess, acts of oral sex, and he kept pushing for more (in a sleazy and gross way, that's the behavior that needs to be confronted).

This is a deep topic, one that we'll have to be careful navigating. If people have differing views, we need to find out why that is, and then do our best to have a respectful dialogue in getting our own points of view across, without resorting to condescension and whatnot. And I'm not saying you're doing that (or really any of the prior posts), I want this topic to have the option to remain open and ongoing, so long as it's handled in a mature way.

 

[Foppberg]

I will disagree on the CK situation, but that's just me. Ansari's situation involves multiple, consensual I guess, acts of oral sex, and he kept pushing for more (in a sleazy and gross way, that's the behavior that needs to be confronted).

This is a deep topic, one that we'll have to be careful navigating. If people have differing views, we need to find out why that is, and then do our best to have a respectful dialogue in getting our own points of view across, without resorting to condescension and whatnot. And I'm not saying you're doing that (or really any of the prior posts), I want this topic to have the option to remain open and ongoing, so long as it's handled in a mature way.

I mean what Louie did was really, really weird and creepy, and I could be wrong but what I know of that situation is that he always asked, he didn't really force anything on them. But I guess there is the angle of he's in a position of power and used that as leverage, even if it may have been unconsciously done. There's a lot of things to digest and process when it comes to this stuff that painting a black and white picture doesn't help or address anything, because there's tons of grey area.

And yeah of course, I think everyones been pretty level headed in this thread. The issue with conversations like this (not this thread, but in general) is that it's such a heated topic that some people just can't deal or handle the idea of even questioning things. It's immediately labeled as the person being a supporter or defending the accused assaulter. A very volatile time nowadays and it seems like it'll only get worse. I notice it especially on campus, where things are hyper sensitive.

 

[agentblack]

I mean what Louie did was really, really weird and creepy, and I could be wrong but what I know of that situation is that he always asked, he didn't really force anything on them. But I guess there is the angle of he's in a position of power and used that as leverage, even if it may have been unconsciously done. There's a lot of things to digest and process when it comes to this stuff that painting a black and white picture doesn't help or address anything, because there's tons of grey area.

And yeah of course, I think everyones been pretty level headed in this thread. The issue with conversations like this (not this thread, but in general) is that it's such a heated topic that some people just can't deal or handle the idea of even questioning things. It's immediately labeled as the person being a supporter or defending the accused assaulter. A very volatile time nowadays and it seems like it'll only get worse. I notice it especially on campus, where things are hyper sensitive.

Its hard for some people when talking about these things, cause it gets to a point where people just can t get past a certain aspect of the debate and they just shut down or get nasty. Like for example in this very Ansari sitch , you even bring up questioning Grace and your victim blaming, but how can we leave out the other party in this, that seems just as bad to me.

 

[Foppberg]

Its hard for some people when talking about these things, cause it gets to a point where people just can t get past a certain aspect of the debate and they just shut down or get nasty. Like for example in this very Ansari sitch , you even bring up questioning Grace and your victim blaming, but how can we leave out the other party in this, that seems just as bad to me.

Yeah exactly. There's two parties in the situation, nobodies excusing what Aziz did at all, but if from the get go she shut it down, maybe she could have avoided going through what she did. It's a really sensitive thing to try to talk about, being called a sexist or that you're victim blaming etc is such a massive threat now that people typically just agree even if they really don't want to because the social and potential employment repercussions are too big of a threat.

 

[Bonzai12]

the irony of being politically correct is that there's nothing black/white in what is actually "correct"

 

[McMetal]

People need to be adults and just f***ing talk about sex with each other. This "we both want it but we're not allowed to talk about it because it's awkward" prudishness is what leads to things like this. Ansari probably believed everything they were doing was consensual, but because he didn't actually talk to her about it and just made his moves, he ended up seeing what he wanted to see.
Women tell me that they go through with things like that because they're scared if they resist, they'll be hurt worse than just having sex they don't want. And especially when the guy is rich and powerful and probably has lawyers that could make a brutal rape go away, that's intimidating in it's own way even if they're not physically threatening them in the moment.

But all that could have been avoided if they'd just had an honest conversation about what each of them wanted instead of relying on nonverbal social cues. People use those because despite the modern hookup culture, Americans are still REALLY prudish about sex. Strangers bang all the time, but they still talk around it like it's the 1950s.

Hopefully, the end result of this #metoo thing won't be just men being afraid to have sex for fear of what might happen to them. Instead, we just have to acknowledge as a society that f***ing is normal and we should talk about it with partners the same way we discuss whether to order pizza or Chinese.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I have an interesting take on the Avs-Stars rivalry. It is a modern incarnation of the old rivalry in the 1980s between primetime soaps Dallas and Dynasty, the latter of which was set in Denver (notwithstanding the fact that the new Dynasty is set in Atlanta)

 

[Murzu]

LOL at cryptocurrencies. They're melting at the moment with immense speed. I'm still on profit but if this keeps up I can tell my 200€ investment bye bye

 

[5280]

LOL at cryptocurrencies. They're melting at the moment with immense speed. I'm still on profit but if this keeps up I can tell my 200€ investment bye bye

Right ?!?

 

[hockeyfish]

LOL at cryptocurrencies. They're melting at the moment with immense speed. I'm still on profit but if this keeps up I can tell my 200€ investment bye bye

Get out now and buy yourself a nice dinner!

Well, that is assuming there is a way to get out? That whole thing is so fishy.

 

[henchman21]

People need to be adults and just ****ing talk about sex with each other. This "we both want it but we're not allowed to talk about it because it's awkward" prudishness is what leads to things like this. Ansari probably believed everything they were doing was consensual, but because he didn't actually talk to her about it and just made his moves, he ended up seeing what he wanted to see.
Women tell me that they go through with things like that because they're scared if they resist, they'll be hurt worse than just having sex they don't want. And especially when the guy is rich and powerful and probably has lawyers that could make a brutal rape go away, that's intimidating in it's own way even if they're not physically threatening them in the moment.

But all that could have been avoided if they'd just had an honest conversation about what each of them wanted instead of relying on nonverbal social cues. People use those because despite the modern hookup culture, Americans are still REALLY prudish about sex. Strangers bang all the time, but they still talk around it like it's the 1950s.

Hopefully, the end result of this #metoo thing won't be just men being afraid to have sex for fear of what might happen to them. Instead, we just have to acknowledge as a society that ****ing is normal and we should talk about it with partners the same way we discuss whether to order pizza or Chinese.

I feel this is pretty accurate... it is asking a lot of a society to change that quickly though. We've had a major change in norms with this stuff over the past 10 years. Women aren't suddenly going to be completely okay with stopping a make out session to have a 5 minutes frank conversation about sex and consent. Men are not going to suddenly ask the right questions at the right times. There has to be some understanding on both sides to allow this transition to take place. I believe it needs to, and will, but it is going to take time.

 

[Murzu]

Get out now and buy yourself a nice dinner!

Well, that is assuming there is a way to get out? That whole thing is so fishy.

Hah, not yet! Imma becum a millionaire!

 

[Foppberg]

Anybody have some major pro tips for someone starting to go to the gym regularly?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Anybody have some major pro tips for someone starting to go to the gym regularly?

What are you wondering exactly. I can definitely help you out.