OT: The Arizona Coyotes Lounge XVI - The Netflix, Disney+ Alternative

[rt]

I don't think he's defending them as much as saying he deliberately out himself in a high-risk situation.

If I say, "maybe don't run into the store and leave your convertible unlocked and running", I'm not defending car thieves. I'm suggesting you made a poor choice putting yourself at risk of having your car stolen.

I can think the officers should be charged and think that guy was looking for trouble and found it. It's not one or the other. You're both right. There's no excuse for what happened, and that guy chose to out himself in a bad spot directly headed for officers and grabbed one.

The far bigger issue is with the unlawful use of force, just like it is on the car thieves. But that doesn't mean the old guy is above some criticism for his action.

He’s a crazy old regarded geezer. I’m sure he was two days away from being in a home for crazy ass geezers. This is the same as criticizing an eight year old. Who f***ing cares?

 

[MIGs Dog]

But that doesn't mean the old guy is above some criticism for his action.

It's fair to criticize him, but from a legal standpoint the cops are 100% responsible for his injury.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Some people drive larger vehicles because it makes them feel safer. Some do it for enjoyment. I have a 3" lift with big tires on my Tacoma. Had a '14 with the same set up and got my '20 in December. The first one never went off road and I don't expect this one to either. I don't even want to take it down dirt roads because it will get dirty. I just like to sit up in traffic and I love the way it looks and drives. I don't drive a full size because it would barely fit in my garage. I certainly don't need a truck, especially a lifted one. I just prefer to drive one. I don't see the problem with that.

I heard that guys with large trucks are trying to compensate for a small....

Full disclosure:. I drive a GMC Sierra long bed with a big throaty V8.

 

[RemoAZ]

Wisdom from the late, great George Carlin:

 

[Sinurgy]

"To be fairrrrrr...." (I binged Letterkeny during all this)



Certainly. But it does beg the questions...

Do you really need a big boat, as you live in a desert?, and

Would it be more cost effective to not drive the behemoth every trip 365 days a year, or even better, *rent* a behemoth for those 2 weekends?

Full disclosure, I owned a Grand Cherokee in the mid 90s, so I could see the state I moved to more completely. Got rid of it after 2+ years after a trip to a primitive area of the north rim, and have never felt the need to drive one since.

People need a big boat in the desert about as much as they need hockey in the desert. We're in want territory here, not need. Now if we switch the conversation to need that gets pretty hairy because one could argue we don't need damn near anything that being a member of the first world offers.

 

[MIGs Dog]

People need a big boat in the desert about as much as they need hockey in the desert. We're in want territory here, not need. Now if we switch the conversation to need that gets pretty hairy because one could argue we don't need damn near anything that being a member of the first world offers.

According to Maslow's heiarchy of needs, moving up the pyramid means some things that are viewed as wants actually become needs. For example, my grandfather who only had an 8th grade education and worked in a steel mill his entire life viewed buying a new Cadillac with cash as a symbol of success. It was part of what allowed him to feel esteem. He eventually did.

 

[Sinurgy]

According to Maslow's heiarchy of needs, moving up the pyramid means some things that are viewed as wants actually become needs. For example, my grandfather who only had an 8th grade education and worked in a steel mill his entire life viewed buying a new Cadillac with cash as a symbol of success. It was part of what allowed him to feel esteem. He eventually did.

I always interpreted Maslow's Hierarchy differently, not that your needs actually change but that you have the luxury of focusing on things that are wants instead of needs. E.g. your grandfather wouldn't be concerned with a new Cadillac if he didn't have food, shelter and water.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I always interpreted Maslow's Hierarchy differently, not that your needs actually change but that you have the luxury of focusing on things that are wants instead of needs. E.g. your grandfather wouldn't be concerned with a new Cadillac if he didn't have food, shelter and water.

I'd say wants become needs as you move up the pyramid. A homeless guy might be struggling to meet his basic physiological needs, although at the same time he may dream of one day owning a Cadillac; at the moment it is a want. But one day the car may become necessary to fulfill his esteem needs.

In general, it just irks me when someone feels enlightened enough to determine the needs of another person. What they are really saying is "your needs are purely psychological, and I'm here to tell you they are also irrational."

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I would bet both the driver of the Prius and the jacked up F250 have a good chance at being good people.

 

[rt]

I would bet both the driver of the Prius and the jacked up F250 have a good chance at being good people.

It’s a good point. 99% of us Americans aren’t rioting or even protesting. 99% of us don’t have to worry about being killed by police (and this includes black Americans). 99% of police will never kill anyone at any point ever. 99% of us will survive the COVID-19 pandemic without dying from the disease.

The news today is SOOO awful. Absolutely disturbing. It also has nothing to do with 99% of us. Most of us would lose nothing by paying no attention at all to any of it.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

It’s a good point. 99% of us Americans aren’t rioting or even protesting. 99% of us don’t have to worry about being killed by police (and this includes black Americans). 99% of police will never kill anyone at any point ever. 99% of us will survive the COVID-19 pandemic without dying from the disease.

The news today is SOOO awful. Absolutely disturbing. It also has nothing to do with 99% of us. Most of us would lose nothing by paying no attention at all to any of it.

I know you're exaggerating for effect, but your percentages are way off - particularly the percentage of black people not having to worry about being killed by police.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I know you're exaggerating for effect, but your percentages are way off - particularly the percentage of black people not having to worry about being killed by police.

For sure...it's much higher than 99%

 

[The Feckless Puck]

For sure...it's much higher than 99%

Well, you and I may disagree on percentages, but can we at least agree that anything non-zero is a bad thing?

 

[MIGs Dog]

Well, you and I may disagree on percentages, but can we at least agree that anything non-zero is a bad thing?

I'm not sure if we are talking about the percentage that fear dying by cop (probably high), or the percentage that do die by cop (rather low, particularly when compared to all of the other ways people die prematurely).

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Well, you and I may disagree on percentages, but can we at least agree that anything non-zero is a bad thing?

...and if you reduce it from "killed" to "attacked" or even "harrassed", it's probably 80-90% that worry about it. Probably more. My customer of 12 years, who is now my boss since they hired me, is an upper middle class black female with a scholarly, well-behaved 20-something son, and she was as upset as I've ever seen her over this. Last week during the curfew I was driving to go walk or something after 8pm, and more than once I saw young black men, minding their own business walking alone down the street, and think "man, buddy, what *are* you doing?.... followed by..... that I still think that, that *IS* the problem".

 

[Sinurgy]

I'd say wants become needs as you move up the pyramid. A homeless guy might be struggling to meet his basic physiological needs, although at the same time he may dream of one day owning a Cadillac; at the moment it is a want. But one day the car may become necessary to fulfill his esteem needs.

In general, it just irks me when someone feels enlightened enough to determine the needs of another person. What they are really saying is "your needs are purely psychological, and I'm here to tell you they are also irrational."

Eh agree to disagree then, I think trying to frame needs as subjective is nothing more than subverting the word needs.

I would bet both the driver of the Prius and the jacked up F250 have a good chance at being good people.

100%! I don't judge people by their cars, in fact I try not to judge people period (not always successful), but I do find the people who "wouldn't be caught dead" in on or the other are often douche nozzles.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Eh agree to disagree then, I think trying to frame needs as subjective is nothing more than subverting the word needs.

They are not subjective, but rather psychological. All of Maslow's needs above the 2nd level are psychological and thus different for each individual.

Some of the 2nd level needs are also psychological...like safety. It's not actual safety that people need, but the perception of safety, and that can vary significantly.

 

[Sinurgy]

It’s a good point. 99% of us Americans aren’t rioting or even protesting. 99% of us don’t have to worry about being killed by police (and this includes black Americans). 99% of police will never kill anyone at any point ever. 99% of us will survive the COVID-19 pandemic without dying from the disease.

Probably not 99% but your point is well taken. Still we do have to worry about slippery slopes and I think police brutality is a perfect example of that.

The news today is SOOO awful. Absolutely disturbing. It also has nothing to do with 99% of us. Most of us would lose nothing by paying no attention at all to any of it.

The media obsession with Trump was the last straw for me. I can't stand the guy, I think he's a self-centered buffoon with few ethics or morals yet somehow the media STILL finds a way to over exaggerate, misconstrue, slant, instigate, etc. damn near every story/article they can about him. Sure they hate Trump and sure he is mostly deserving of the hate but I don't think that's their motivation, I think it's money. They see Trump hate going viral on social media and they fan those flames as much as they can to line their pockets. Facts be damned, effect on our nation be damned, everything but the mighty dollar be damned. Keep people frothing at the mouth and keep cashing those checks baby!

I completely unplugged from the news about 2.5 years ago. I don't watch it, I don't read it, I don't get updates, I'm not subscribed to any feeds, unsubscribed from most news subreddits, no podcasts, etc. I am unplugged and have not an ounce of regret! It's not a stretch to say I've saved myself 100's of hours of frustration and wasted time. I'm better off in almost every conceivable way and faaaaaar more productive! Another nice thing is the 24/7 news cycle is almost non-existent in my world, so all the silly shit they're constantly trying to sell doesn't get to me and if something does actually bubble up enough that even I see it, it's usually worth paying attention to.

 

[rt]

I know you're exaggerating for effect, but your percentages are way off - particularly the percentage of black people not having to worry about being killed by police.

LOL - WTF are you taking about? Didn’t cops kill 9 unarmed black people in the US last year? Aren’t there 37 million blacks in the US?

 

[_Del_]

The news today is SOOO awful. Absolutely disturbing. It also has nothing to do with 99% of us. Most of us would lose nothing by paying no attention at all to any of it.

This could not be more true.

 

[_Del_]

LOL - WTF are you taking about? Didn’t cops kill 9 unarmed black people in the US last year? Aren’t there 37 million blacks in the US?

And it's not clear based on that number how many were assaulting someone, for example, which might/maybe have justified the shooting.

One is obviously still too many, but also somewhat short of an American epidemic of police shootings of unarmed people (of any colour; there were 19 unarmed whites shot).

 

[rt]

And it's not clear based on that number how many were assaulting someone, for example, which might/maybe have justified the shooting.

One is obviously still too many, but also somewhat short of an American epidemic of police shootings of unarmed people (of any colour; there were 19 unarmed whites shot).

Per capita it’s inordinately high by demographic, however. They’ve got a point.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Per capita it’s inordinately high by demographic, however. They’ve got a point.

Certain demographics commit crimes at a higher rate too. If you analyze police shootings based on how often police have contact with different demos, the data says they are not disproportionally targeting any particular race.

This is not to say police reform is not needed...it absolutely is.

 

[rt]

Certain demographics commit crimes at a higher rate too. If you analyze police shootings based on how often police have contact with different demos, the data says they are not disproportionally targeting any particular race.

This is not to say police reform is not needed...it absolutely is.

I was just saying this yesterday. It should be "contact rate". Having said that "commit crimes" is a bit of a misnomer, also. If you assume that bias plays a role in stops, arrests, and convictions. Still, it's likely a direct correlation with household income, education level, rates of nuclear vs non-traditional family units, etc, etc. All that stuff we all read about. Obviously not genetics.

My point is that it's rare to be a protester, a rioter, a victim of rioting, a violent cop, a victim of a violent cop, or someone who themselves has been, or had a very close friend or relative seriously injured or killed by COVID-19. By rare, I mean easily 9/10 of Americans won't suffer from any of that.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I was just saying this yesterday. It should be "contact rate". Having said that "commit crimes" is a bit of a misnomer, also. If you assume that bias plays a role in stops, arrests, and convictions. Still, it's likely a direct correlation with household income, education level, rates of nuclear vs non-traditional family units, etc, etc. All that stuff we all read about. Obviously not genetics.

My point is that it's rare to be a protester, a rioter, a victim of rioting, a violent cop, a victim of a violent cop, or someone who themselves has been, or had a very close friend or relative seriously injured or killed by COVID-19. By rare, I mean easily 9/10 of Americans won't suffer from any of that.

You're right. Contact rate is the correct term, and the police have a higher contact rate with criminals and those likely to commit crime. Floyd did not deserve to be choked to death, but the cops didn't randomly roll up on him. They were called because he was suspected of a crime.