TV: The All - Encompassing Star Trek Thread. Debate Long + Prosper

[Daisy Jane]

It really amused me how useless Worf was in TNG .
He was basically a main-cast red shirt. First on hurt/injured. Anytime he had an idea, it was brushed aside.

he did develop nicely in DS9 (even though he kinda 'ate' the series at times.

 

[Blender]

It really amused me how useless Worf was in TNG .
He was basically a main-cast red shirt. First on hurt/injured. Anytime he had an idea, it was brushed aside.

he did develop nicely in DS9 (even though he kinda 'ate' the series at times.

Worf still had more character development than Geordi ever got, but yea it was almost a running gag for Worf to get beaten up in TNG, especially early on.

 

[Daisy Jane]

just finished watching The Inner Light.

I get why @The Nemesis thinks it's kind of overrated but at the same time it is a really good episode. I don't know if this would be an episode that would be on my top ten - which is so weird because i think it shaped what Picard was for the rest TNG (on television). Like he finally settled down, had a family, and a life, and it's taken away from him. You see veins of reference of this episode in subsequent episodes.

yet it's not one of episodes that i feel you truly need to sit down and watch and get what trek is, or what TNG was all about.

but it does make use of Picard: Bomber Jacket.

also i think we should also thank (and curse) TNG for really making use/popularizing the To be continued. best of both worlds from everything i remember was literally a cliff-hanger. people were being fired (including their music guy,) Stewart nearly pulled a Denise Crosby and wanted to leave the series, but changed his mind. So when Riker looks all serious and goes fire... no one really knew what the next episode would truly be.

This true sense of anticipation + gravitas failed to carry over with
Redemption 1 + 2
Times Arrow 1 + 2
Descent 1+ 2

but made up for it w/Chains of Command and All good things.
(and I feel DS9 had amazing cliff-hangers, but i think the way the show was written it was set up better for it)

 

[Blender]

just finished watching The Inner Light.

I get why @The Nemesis thinks it's kind of overrated but at the same time it is a really good episode. I don't know if this would be an episode that would be on my top ten - which is so weird because i think it shaped what Picard was for the rest TNG (on television). Like he finally settled down, had a family, and a life, and it's taken away from him. You see veins of reference of this episode in subsequent episodes.

yet it's not one of episodes that i feel you truly need to sit down and watch and get what trek is, or what TNG was all about.

but it does make use of Picard: Bomber Jacket.

I really consider The Inner Light to be the City on the Edge of Forever of TNG. It's one of the best written, directed, and acted episodes of the entire series.

 

[The Nemesis]

It really amused me how useless Worf was in TNG .
He was basically a main-cast red shirt. First on hurt/injured. Anytime he had an idea, it was brushed aside.

he did develop nicely in DS9 (even though he kinda 'ate' the series at times.

Worf's treatment inspired a trope name: The Worf Effect (when a character is established as tough/intimidating/powerful seemingly entirely so that other characters can come along and beat them up effortlessly to prove how tough/intimidating/powerful they are.)

and to @Blender's comment above, it's kind of funny how beloved Geordi is in spite of the fact that he's usually little more than a walking technobabble ex machina solution for whatever problem they have. And the running "gag" of his terrible dating history, including making him into a gigantic creeper via his relationship with holo-Brahms. Which somehow still results in him eventually marrying the real Brahms if the vague references in the future bits of "All Good Things..." are to be believed. Even though this would require actual Brahms to either be married or widowed at some point between The Child and AGT's future stuff. Unless it's implying that Geordi simply went out and found another woman with the same name. Which would manage to make him an even bigger creeper. Or this is TNG's last-minute subtle attempted reference to polygamous marriage being totally cool in 24th century human society

Credit to LeVar Burton for being charismatic as hell and making the character lovable.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I used to like Inner Light, but I can't get past the whole mind rape thing. Maybe that's just a personal thing but it does kind of rub me the wrong way.

 

[Jumptheshark]

It is interesting what is happening behind the scenes with the next movie. Originally it was planned for a summer 2018 release. It was pulled from the projected schedule shortly after the release of the last movie. When he was promotiing wander woman Pine said while him, Spock and the Hemsworth who plays his father had all been signed--no one else was and there was no script. What maybe causing the delay is the Quentin Tarantino wants to direct it and well--it takes him awhile to actual do stuff sometimes. The Trek boards are suggesting that it may not be till 2020 we could see the next movie

 

[Blender]

It is interesting what is happening behind the scenes with the next movie. Originally it was planned for a summer 2018 release. It was pulled from the projected schedule shortly after the release of the last movie. When he was promotiing wander woman Pine said while him, Spock and the Hemsworth who plays his father had all been signed--no one else was and there was no script. What maybe causing the delay is the Quentin Tarantino wants to direct it and well--it takes him awhile to actual do stuff sometimes. The Trek boards are suggesting that it may not be till 2020 we could see the next movie

I'd be happy if they scrap the Kelvin timeline movies entirely.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I'd be happy if they scrap the Kelvin timeline movies entirely.

that is one theory that is going around that the next movie more or less undoes the first three movies

 

[Daisy Jane]

that is one theory that is going around that the next movie more or less undoes the first three movies

i wonder if that would make it worse.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I'd be happy if they scrap the Kelvin timeline movies entirely.

I've yet to hear a proper reasoning (other than "to get the casual person who doesn't need/want to know all the Star Trek stuff") why they did what they did. I also don't know why other fandoms who are rabid/loyal are particular, can have properly done movies (for the most part), but trek fans get lambasted for wanting things to be held to the standard of what came before.

It's what makes a story good. what's the point of writing a new story based on the ideologies of a world/universe that you created - if you just throw everything out the window then yell at people for going "well no. this actually can't happen because of reasons."

it's one thing if it makes sense (like having the black guy as a storm trooper which a TONNE of people were mad about (because Stormtroopers are clones) but the movie logically explained it and it didn't completely destroy/deviate from the movies future or past). unlike KelvinTrek where they decide "hey let's blow up Vulcan!"

 

[Jumptheshark]

If anyone wants to have some fun--spend some time on youtube and the convention vidoes of Jeri Ryan, garret wong and some of Roxann Dawson's Q and A--looks like they had the same problem behind the scenes as they had on DS9.. Ryan goes into detail the friction they had between her and Mulgrew for the first two years she was on the show and Wong complains about how Paramount only gave Mulgrew and Beltron access to the top interviews and everyone else was stuck doing radio interviews at 3am

 

[Daisy Jane]

If anyone wants to have some fun--spend some time on youtube and the convention vidoes of Jeri Ryan, garret wong and some of Roxann Dawson's Q and A--looks like they had the same problem behind the scenes as they had on DS9.. Ryan goes into detail the friction they had between her and Mulgrew for the first two years she was on the show and Wong complains about how Paramount only gave Mulgrew and Beltron access to the top interviews and everyone else was stuck doing radio interviews at 3am

what issues did Ds9 have?

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I was hoping for another movie that brought Jaylah back. I guess that isn’t happening now. A pity as I really liked Beyond.

 

[67 others]

I really consider The Inner Light to be the City on the Edge of Forever of TNG. It's one of the best written, directed, and acted episodes of the entire series.

For DS9, the type of episode that fits this mold is "The visitor" from season 4.

I enjoy this episode more than the inner light

 

[Jumptheshark]

what issues did Ds9 have?

Lots of stuff on youtube

some of the stuff has to do with Avery Brooks being a very serious actor in the mould of Patrick Stewart and others such as Shimerman were more of comedic actors who tended to have more fun. Marina Sertis has several videos talking about the difference between the two sets. After a couple of seasons Stewart loosened up--sounds like Brooks never did. Then there was some problems with Alex Siddig not playing nicely with all the cast

 

[Osprey]

With Beyond underperforming at the box office and Yelchin dying, it doesn't surprise me that they're considering what sounds like a soft reboot. It makes me shake my head, but it doesn't surprise me. Hollywood will milk something until it stops giving, then reboot it and start all over again.

I've yet to hear a proper reasoning (other than "to get the casual person who doesn't need/want to know all the Star Trek stuff") why they did what they did. I also don't know why other fandoms who are rabid/loyal are particular, can have properly done movies (for the most part), but trek fans get lambasted for wanting things to be held to the standard of what came before.

I just did a little research and found something interesting. Every one of the original films, minus The Final Frontier, was in the top 10 for domestic grosses on the year, with the average being about 6th. In contrast, not one of the new films has been in the top 10. Also, the original 6 grossed an average of 5x their budget, making Paramount a healthy profit, whereas the newest 3 have grossed an average of only 2.5x, barely breaking even. In fact, even the worst performer of the original 6, The Final Frontier, performed the same as Beyond, relative to its budget. In other words, for as hard as Paramount tried to draw in non-fans by making Trek more "cool" and like more successful franchises, they actually made a trio of films that had less cultural impact and were less profitable than the first half dozen films that didn't try so hard to be something that Trek isn't.

 

[Blender]

If anyone wants to have some fun--spend some time on youtube and the convention vidoes of Jeri Ryan, garret wong and some of Roxann Dawson's Q and A--looks like they had the same problem behind the scenes as they had on DS9.. Ryan goes into detail the friction they had between her and Mulgrew for the first two years she was on the show and Wong complains about how Paramount only gave Mulgrew and Beltron access to the top interviews and everyone else was stuck doing radio interviews at 3am

I'm not exactly surprised that some of the actors on Voyager reacted with hostility to Jeri Ryan, even though it wasn't her fault in any way (that entire industry is cut throat and petty). She joined the cast half way through the run of the show and almost instantly became the main character. So many plots after her addition revolve around her, or are solved by her. Characters who were already pretty useless like Kim, Chakotay, Tuvok, etc. became even more so after she started getting all their screen time.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I'm not exactly surprised that some of the actors on Voyager reacted with hostility to Jeri Ryan, even though it wasn't her fault in any way (that entire industry is cut throat and petty). She joined the cast half way through the run of the show and almost instantly became the main character. So many plots after her addition revolve around her, or are solved by her. Characters who were already pretty useless like Kim, Chakotay, Tuvok, etc. became even more so after she started getting all their screen time.

it also didn't help she was dating Braga? i think at the time, so even though she was a v. good actress - it really seemed like the Seven of Nine show, and why? because she's forking the boss.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Lots of stuff on youtube

some of the stuff has to do with Avery Brooks being a very serious actor in the mould of Patrick Stewart and others such as Shimerman were more of comedic actors who tended to have more fun. Marina Sertis has several videos talking about the difference between the two sets. After a couple of seasons Stewart loosened up--sounds like Brooks never did. Then there was some problems with Alex Siddig not playing nicely with all the cast

Brooks to this day wants almost nothing to do with the show. He was and is a very serious actor. He reminds me of a more stuck up Edward Norton, if that's even possible.

I had no idea about Siddig being a dick. I know he and Visitor had a thing, and then had an actual thing, and then opted to go their separate ways.

Shinmerman was uber uptight about Quark. It sounds like he often got upset with the writing and production teams over the direction of the character.

I like to think Meaney was on the sidelines drinking a coffee and reading a newspaper while everyone else played High School.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

it also didn't help she was dating Braga? i think at the time, so even though she was a v. good actress - it really seemed like the Seven of Nine show, and why? because she's forking the boss.

Sagging ratings in the mid-late 90's, early 2000's often called for the adding of more boobs.

 

[Blender]

Shinmerman was uber uptight about Quark. It sounds like he often got upset with the writing and production teams over the direction of the character.

I remember either reading or seeing an interview with Shimerman where he said he felt a responsibility to making the Ferengis be taken seriously because he was the first actor to ever portray one and they were a pathetic joke. So he'd get upset with the DS9 writers if they tried to do anything that had them come off the way they did in TNG.

 

[Blender]

Sagging ratings in the mid-late 90's, early 2000's often called for the adding of more boobs.

What started as a shameful boob add became the best (or 2nd best) character on the show. It helps that she was one of the best actresses on the show as well.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

What started as a shameful boob add became the best (or 2nd best) character on the show. It helps that she was one of the best actresses on the show as well.

I liked Ryan and I really liked the direction she took the character. Picardo though was the star of the show. I don't think there was a single episode he didn't pour his heart into. He's a very talented and under appreciated actor.

I think Wang and Tuvok did good jobs with their roles, but never got the material to work.

I know Beltran was very critical of the blatant racist approach the production team took with his character, but I think he could have done a better job overall.

McNeil, Mulgrew and Dawson mailed it in far to often.

As for Philips, Neelix is a terrible character, and probably the most hatable character in ST history.

 

[Winger98]

I've yet to hear a proper reasoning (other than "to get the casual person who doesn't need/want to know all the Star Trek stuff") why they did what they did. I also don't know why other fandoms who are rabid/loyal are particular, can have properly done movies (for the most part), but trek fans get lambasted for wanting things to be held to the standard of what came before.

Look at who the writers were, and neither them nor the director seemed to care about Trek at all until giving interviews after hiring on for it. They were Star Wars people, which is fine, but they basically tried to push Trek in that direction because that's what they liked. If the writers weren't hacks, they might have done better at it.

Sagging ratings in the mid-late 90's, early 2000's often called for the adding of more boobs.

Their first instinct to Enterprise was to try to sex up the Vulcan. Maybe three seasons based around an overly convoluted and boring temporal war just wasn't the best idea?