Rumor: The All Encompassing Patrik Laine Thread (it’s happening!!)

[salbutera]

Agreed 100 percent about the city thing. It's always some losers who don't know Montreal who a) somehow became Habs fans b) clearly don't know the first thing about it.

We're cool with our internationally renowned city, they can worry about their hole-in-the-wall town that no one here comments on or is concerned with.

No one said otherwise - IMO no city in North America can match the vibrancy, safety (still is relatively speaking), and joie de vivre from May thru Sept

But NA pro sports isn’t about international renown or culture or cool factor, it’s about $$$$ - namely for leagues it’s identifying locations with well heeled / deep pocketed owners who can leverage local corporate $$ in a market with a sizable di$posable income population who can & want to $pend fanatically on sports and in return maximize media deal$$$$.

For players it’s about how much can I make & $tash in the short time I’m a pro athlete

MLB expanded to Mtl not Toronto or Vancouver in 1969 for a specific reason and it wasn’t culture or international renown …. Mtl was the economic engine of Canada.

Mtl’s heyday as a sports town - Habs, Expos, Alouettes, Manic - was at its peak of economic dominance in the same breath as NYC, London, Paris

Truly is unfortunate how it’s fallen economically but that’s just reality not “bigotry”

 

[26Mats]

How many teams can fit $8M into their cap - if as Waddell stated he’s not willing to eat $ at present

100% Waddell will eventually have to retain or take back a contract to get a deal done.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

No one said otherwise - IMO no city in North America can match the vibrancy, safety (still is relatively speaking), and joie de vivre from May thru Sept

But NA pro sports isn’t about international renown or culture or cool factor, it’s about $$$$ - namely for leagues it’s identifying locations with well heeled / deep pocketed owners who can leverage local corporate $$ in a market with a sizable di$posable income population who can & want to $pend fanatically on sports and in return maximize media deal$$$$.

For players it’s about how much can I make & $tash in the short time I’m a pro athlete

MLB expanded to Mtl not Toronto or Vancouver in 1969 for a specific reason and it wasn’t culture or international renown …. Mtl was the economic engine of Canada.

Mtl’s heyday as a sports town - Habs, Expos, Alouettes, Manic - was at its peak of economic dominance in the same breath as NYC, London, Paris

Truly is unfortunate how it’s fallen economically but that’s just reality not “bigotry”

I wasn't meaning you in my post by the way, I may disagree with you, but I do think you approach this stuff in good faith.

But yeah, sorry, until I see hard data that corroborates what you're saying like I asked in the other thread, you're not going to convince me that the city of Montreal can't support another major league team when the likes of Cleveland (with 3), Pittsburgh (3), Denver (4), Detroit (4), New Orleans (2) etc. etc. etc. etc. can do so without a problem. Your theory just doesn't hold up when you look around the leagues, whether it comes to culture, money and/or corporate backing.

It's not bigotry but all of this stuff feels like Anglophones who are bitter about ancient city politics (which I don't even particularly disagree with in spirit) and coming to a bunch of faulty conclusions because of it.

 

[salbutera]

I wasn't meaning you in my post by the way, I may disagree with you, but I do think you approach this stuff in good faith.

But yeah, sorry, until I see hard data that corroborates what you're saying like I asked in the other thread, you're not going to convince me that the city of Montreal can't support another major league team when the likes of Cleveland (with 3), Pittsburgh (3), Denver (4), Detroit (4), New Orleans (2) etc. etc. etc. etc. can do so without a problem. Your theory just doesn't hold up when you look around the leagues.

It's not bigotry but all of this stuff feels like Anglophones who are bitter about ancient city politics (which I don't even particularly disagree with in spirit) and coming to a bunch of faulty conclusions because of it.

It’s a numbers game US has 10X Canada’s population. It takes an average of 2Million people to support a MLB team and about half that to support a NFL, NBA or NHL team. Why so many more for MLB, well they play 81 home games, several per week. Few people can afford to attend that many games, so it takes a bigger pool of customers to sell between 40–50.000 tickets per game. NBA and NHL teams play 41 home games, still a couple a week but to a smaller crowd, maybe 20,000. The NFL only plays once a week, 8 or 9 at home before 75,000. Even at a $200/ticket the overall investment may only be $4000/year including tailgating / concessions

Overall, it becomes largely additive. The more sports franchises the bigger the pool of attendees has to be. Since NBA and NHL teams tend to share arenas and overlap their seasons, it is rare that a single person would attend all games for both teams. They’d be in the arena every night! What % of Habs fans attending games would also attend NBA? What % of high income Mtl population has serious interest in NBA?

Then there’s the business aspect large population market allows for TV / media contracts, corporate HQs - Cleveland, Detroit, Pitt, Denver all have significant corporate HQ presence again US is 10x the size of Canada more corporations to go around.

Then there’s “sports culture” - watching sporting events is a huge part of American culture it simply isn’t in Mtl the level of fanaticism just isn’t comparable EXCEPT for Habs.

Those cities mentioned have lower cost of living, housing is cheaper, taxes are less, earning capacity is greater for professionals etc combined w engrained sports culture… guess where disposable income gets spent ?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It’s a numbers game US has 10X Canada’s population. It takes an average of 2Million people to support a MLB team and about half that to support a NFL, NBA or NHL team. Why so many more for MLB, well they play 81 home games, several per week. Few people can afford to attend that many games, so it takes a bigger pool of customers to sell between 40–50.000 tickets per game. NBA and NHL teams play 41 home games, still a couple a week but to a smaller crowd, maybe 20,000. The NFL only plays once a week, 8 or 9 at home before 75,000. Even at a $200/ticket the overall investment may only be $4000/year including tailgating / concessions

Overall, it becomes largely additive. The more sports franchises the bigger the pool of attendees has to be. Since NBA and NHL teams tend to share arenas and overlap their seasons, it is rare that a single person would attend all games for both teams. They’d be in the arena every night! What % of Habs fans attending games would also attend NBA?

Then there’s the business aspect large population market allows for TV / media contracts, corporate HQs - Cleveland, Detroit, Pitt, Denver all have significant corporate HQ presence again US is 10x the size of Canada more corporations to go around.

Then there’s “sports culture” - watching sporting events is a huge part of American culture it simply isn’t in Mtl the level of fanaticism just isn’t comparable EXCEPT for Habs.

Those cities mentioned have lower cost of living, housing is cheaper, taxes are less, earning capacity is greater for professionals etc combined w engrained sports culture… guess where disposable income gets spent ?

Right, expect that Montreal is the city in North America with the 9th highest population (and 20th Metro, and that's just the city, they'd be the only game in the province) with plenty enough American/Canadian corporate money to go around (i.e. just as an example, I work for an American tech company that's one of the famous brand around the world and Montreal has become its North American hub - along with headquarters in SF - due to cheaper costs and multitude of languages spoken). Population, corporate and market size aren't a problem. Not to mention that Montreal is a city that ranks extremely high worldwide in livability and quality of life.

I'll ask again, are you able to provide data that would show that cities like the ones I mentioned that show that their significantly smaller population sizes have more disposable income to spend than Montrealers? Like f***ing Detroit, really?

As far as 'culture' goes, I'll just stop you here as I understand that you do not live in the city anymore and that you are of a certain age. I don't think you quite have the ear to the ground that someone living here centrally and much younger would have on that so all I'll say is that I don't think you're right and the talent that's being produced right now in Canada/Montreal towards the NCAA and the NBA supports that.

 

[salbutera]

Right, expect that Montreal is the city in North America with the 9th highest population (and 20th Metro, and that's just the city, they'd be the only game in the province) with plenty enough American/Canadian corporate money to go around (i.e. just as an example, I work for an American tech company that's one of the famous brand around the world and Montreal has become its North American hub - along with headquarters in SF - due to cheaper costs and multitude of languages spoken). Population, corporate and market size aren't a problem. Not to mention that Montreal is a city that ranks extremely high worldwide in livability and quality of life.

I'll ask again, are you able to provide data that would show that cities like the ones I mentioned that show that their significantly smaller population sizes have more disposable income to spend than Montrealers? Like f***ing Detroit, really?

In Canada lower end of 1% is approx $235K (One Percent), in Michigan - Average top 5% income: $316,23 / Lower limit of top 5%: $187,384 (How Much You Need to Be in the Top 5% in Every State)

Detroit has low taxes and lower cost of upper middle class & luxury housing even taking exchange rate into consideration vs Mtl, and a larger high disposable income population base to draw from. Oh yeah the automotive HQs and most of their large supply base is HQ’d in Michigan.

Detroit & Mtl have approx same greater city population of 4M+. Pistons are owned by hedge fund billionaire & diehard sports fan Tom Gores ($9.7B net worth), until Guy Laliberté or Alain Bouchard / Jacques D’Amours transform into sports fans (or Desmarais) there’s no one in that sphere which was the issue for Expos after Bronfman sold the team and even Habs when Gillett had to come in to buy the team.

Winter-peg would've never regained the Jets had it not been for David Thomson being the owner and the minute he gets bored that team will be gone - he did it as a social service because his fathers family originated from the area and he’s not at all a sports fan

As far as 'culture' goes, I'll just stop you here as I understand that you do not live in the city anymore and that you are of a certain age. I don't think you quite have the ear to the ground that someone living here centrally and much younger would have on that so all I'll say is that I don't think you're right and the talent that's being produced right now in Canada/Montreal towards the NCAA and the NBA supports that.

US economic system has always been about scouring the planet to poach the top end talent. I think it’s great Mtl is producing high end basketball talent, just as it’s awesome Quebec has developed football players for NCAA and NFL over last 10-15 years, but Mtl isn’t any closer to getting an NFL team either..

Look I really hope I’m wrong and Mtl gets both an NBA & NFL franchise, I’ll be the first to get in line to buy season tickets, I still have my Habs…. I just don’t see it happening in the near term (5-10years) unless there’s a significant economic upswing in the economy.

The reason EA sports and some other software companies are based in Mtl is to leverage the cheap high end educated labor relative to Silicon Valley - as a topper sales in USD, cost of labor in CDN$ which helps margin growth while capitalizing on high end knowledge based skilled labor

 

[CanadienShark]

Laine would slide into this group well IMO. Would have loads to talent to work with and the 2 year term is perfect IMO. There are risks/rewards to pretty much any trade you make.

Just imagine Laine with Suzuki. Also think about the centers Laine has played with in his career so far? Scheifele is the only true top 2C.

It's funny. You and I always seem to totally disagree, or be 100% on the same page. Never any in between. This case is totally the latter. Laine makes sense for so many reasons, assuming the price of acquisition is palatable. Obviously it has to work for both sides and I'm not sure it will though.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

In Canada lower end of 1% is approx $235K (One Percent), in Michigan - Average top 5% income: $316,23 / Lower limit of top 5%: $187,384 (How Much You Need to Be in the Top 5% in Every State)

Detroit has low taxes and lower cost of housing even taking exchange rate into consideration vs Mtl, and a larger high disposable income population base to draw from. Oh yeah the automotive HQs and most of their large supply base is HQ’d in Michigan.

Detroit & Mtl have approx same greater city population of 4M+. Pistons are owned by hedge fund billionaire & diehard sports fan Tom Gores ($9.7B net worth), until Guy Laliberté transforms into a sports fan (or Desmarais) there’s no one in that sphere which was the issue for Expos after Bronfman sold the team and even Habs when Gillett had to come in to buy the team.

Winter-peg would've never regained the Jets had it not been for David Thompson being the owner and the minute he gets bored that team will be gone - he did it as a social service because his fathers family originated from the area and he’s not at all a sports fan


US economic system has always been about scouring the planet to poach the top end talent. I think it’s great Mtl is producing high end basketball talent, just as it’s awesome Quebec has developed football players for NCAA and NFL over last 10-15 years, but Mtl isn’t any closer to getting an NFL team either..

Look I really hope I’m wrong and Mtl gets both an NBA & NFL franchise, I’ll be the first to get in line to buy season tickets, I still have my Habs…. I just don’t see it happening in the near term (5-10years) unless there’s a significant economic upswing in the economy.

The reason EA sports and some other software companies are based in Mtl is to leverage the cheap high end educated labor relative to Silicon Valley - as a topper sales in USD, cost of labor in CDN$ which helps margin growth while capitalizing on high end knowledge based skilled labor

The NFL has never shown an interest or ever will expand to Canada. The NBA, including its commissioner Adam Silver, has and has recently named Montreal by name, confirming that the city had interested investors. We also know Geoff Molson met with Silver less than ten years ago and confirmed his interest as well. So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with Bronfman and Gillet anecdotes from 20+ years ago. That stuff is obsolete.

I'm also not sure what the 1% of Canada is relevant in any meaningful way, nor am I sure why you are different metrics to differentiate between the two (i.e., why is the standard for whether Montreal can hold a team what the lower bracket of the 1% make and why is the standard how much the top 5% of Michigan make? We still don't know how much the top of Canada, let alone Montreal, makes and this is when we start getting into irrelevant details that don't necessarily show a picture of what the city of Montreal looks like).

But we do see constant growth in the city of Montreal in terms of disposable income: Per capita disposable income continued to grow in Québec and in all administrative regions in 2022

With that said, this is rather moot. Whether the NBA comes to Montreal or not isn't the question. It's whether Montreal as a city would be able to support another major league franchise and the answer to that question is clearly yes unless you have complete blinders on.

 

[BLONG7]

The NFL has never shown an interest or ever will expand to Canada. The NBA, including its commissioner Adam Silver, has and has recently named Montreal by name, confirming that the city had interested investors. We also know Geoff Molson met with Silver less than ten years ago and confirmed his interest as well. So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with Bronfman and Gillet anecdotes from 20+ years ago. That stuff is obsolete.

I'm also not sure what the 1% of Canada is relevant in any meaningful way, nor am I sure why you are different metrics to differentiate between the two (i.e., why is the standard for whether Montreal can hold a team what the lower bracket of the 1% make and why is the standard how much the top 5% of Michigan make? We still don't know how much the top of Canada, let alone Montreal, makes and this is when we start getting into irrelevant details that don't necessarily show a picture of what the city of Montreal looks like).

But we do see constant growth in the city of Montreal in terms of disposable income: Per capita disposable income continued to grow in Québec and in all administrative regions in 2022

With that said, this is rather moot. Whether the NBA comes to Montreal or not isn't the question. It's whether Montreal as a city would be able to support another major league franchise and the answer to that question is clearly yes unless you have complete blinders on.

Not sure there is enough corporate $$$ to go around.
If Mol$on wanted a NBA franchise, that just might work........but not convinced.

Would fans support?? Not convince either. It always has seemed it's not even a hockey town, just a Habs town. Weird...

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Not sure there is enough corporate $$$ to go around.
If Mol$on wanted a NBA franchise, that just might work........but not convinced.

Would fans support?? Not convince either. It always has seemed it's not even a hockey town, just a Habs town. Weird...

I really struggle to understand how a city that is a global hub for artificial intelligence, aerospace, software engineering, service industries, the arts to name a few (without even getting into key Canadian companies that hold a stronghold here) wouldn't have the corporate money to back a team. It's absurd on its face.

Not that I think it means a ton but the pre-season games played in Montreal yearly have clearly been a resounding success as well.

 

[BLONG7]

I really struggle to understand how a city that is a global hub for artificial intelligence, aerospace, software engineering, service industries, the arts to name a few (without even getting into key Canadian companies that hold a stronghold here) wouldn't have the corporate money to back a team. It's absurd on its face.

Not that I think it means a ton but the pre-season games played in Montreal yearly have clearly been a resounding success as well.

Very true................years ago the language issue sent a lot of companies packing for Ontario.
Is that still the issue?? The province of Ontario has 3 major sports teams and the sponsorship that is needed. Can Que pull this off?

 

[salbutera]

I really struggle to understand how a city that is a global hub for artificial intelligence, aerospace, software engineering, service industries, the arts to name a few (without even getting into key Canadian companies that hold a stronghold here) wouldn't have the corporate money to back a team. It's absurd on its face.

Not that I think it means a ton but the pre-season games played in Montreal yearly have clearly been a resounding success as well.

It’s one thing to have Google or Amazon or Nvidia’s HQ in Mtl vs satellite offices or small / mid size companies

The pro sports ownership game is also changing need strong finance presence nowadays by way of hedge fund representation - and Mtl financial sector is way behind Toronto or Vancouver.

I work in the industry and work with many of the larger Quebec companies who now have given up on the provincial & GM federal govts and coming directly to US firms seeking finding avenues for expansion even giants like Couche-Tard & Saputo

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It’s one thing to have Google or Amazon or Nvidia’s HQ in Mtl vs satellite offices or small / mid size companies

The pro sports ownership game is also changing need strong finance presence nowadays by way of hedge fund representation - and Mtl financial sector is way behind Toronto or Vancouver.

I work in the industry and work with many of the larger Quebec companies who now have given up on the provincial & GM federal govts and coming directly to US firms seeking finding avenues for expansion even giants like Couche-Tard & Saputo

But you're once again bringing up standards that are rather irrelevant.

That Montreal isn't Silicon Valley or doesn't have the pull of Toronto's stock exchange is irrelevant as to whether the city can support an NBA team, which all signs points towards yes, including by Adam Silver - and again, whether they actually get the team or not doesn't matter, just that they have the capacity - and all you seem to come back with are decades-old anecdotes or odd details about 1% Canada.

 

[salbutera]

But you're once again bringing up standards that are rather irrelevant.

That Montreal isn't Silicon Valley or doesn't have the pull of Toronto's stock exchange is irrelevant as to whether the city can support an NBA team, which all signs points towards yes, including by Adam Silver - and again, whether they actually get the team or not doesn't matter, just that they have the capacity - and all you seem to come back with are decades-old anecdotes or odd details about 1% Canada.

Bettman always bring a up Quebec City, so does MLB w Mtl, but they will NEVER get a team for many of the same reasons … there are other more lucrative markets with extremely wealthy owners ready to buy a franchise at a moments notice

But you always need to create continuous demand using hope as your trigger…

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Bettman always bring a up Quebec City, so does MLB w Mtl, but they will NEVER get a team for many of the same reasons … there are other more lucrative markets with extremely wealthy owners ready to buy a franchise at a moments notice

But you always need to create continuous demand using hope as your trigger…

Okay, but there's no comparison to make between Quebec City and a global city like Montreal. Like, what are we talking about here? How is that even a comparable example?

 

[salbutera]

Okay, but there's no comparison to make between Quebec City and a global city like Montreal. Like, what are we talking about here? How is that even a comparable example?

Because MTL is viewed as a small potatoes market by American business which NBA is - their board of governors won’t care about global city they want to know if one of their own billionaire boys club is an owner and how much wealth the NBA business can poach from their new expansion market by means of corporate & TV / media revenue $$$

Habs can sign a solid deal w RDS / TVA due to demand throughout Quebec - what’s the demand for NBA outside of Mtl? Honestly, I don’t know but those will be some of the data points needed

Also how much will Raptors media revenue stream be hurt with a Mtl team entering the fold? Does that grow the NBA or net neutral?

The Habs generated $265M in revenue last year (Montreal Canadiens on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List), the lowest NBA revenue team is Memphis @ $258M last season (https://www.forbes.com/lists/nba-valuations/)

Again hope I’m wrong, perhaps I don’t have my ear to the ground, but I don’t see so strong a demand that an NBA team will generate revenue on par with Habs in the market..

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Because MTL is viewed as a small potatoes market by American business which NBA is - their board of governors won’t care about global city they want to know if one of their own billionaire boys club is an owner and how much wealth the NBA business can poach from their new expansion market by means of corporate & TV / media revenue $$$

Habs can sign a solid deal w RDS / TVA due to demand throughout Quebec - what’s the demand for NBA outside of Mtl? Honestly, I don’t know but those will be some of the data points needed

Also how much will Raptors media revenue stream be hurt with a Mtl team entering the fold? Does that grow the NBA or net neutral?

The Habs generated $265M in revenue last year (Montreal Canadiens on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List), the lowest NBA revenue team is Memphis @ $258M last season (https://www.forbes.com/lists/nba-valuations/)

Again hope I’m wrong, perhaps I don’t have my ear to the ground, but I don’t see so strong a demand that an NBA team will generate revenue on par with Habs in the market..

Right, it's a business first and foremost and clearly as average joe's we don't have access to whatever numbers the NBA/Montreal investors may or may not have on the feasibility of the project but clearly if they're being openly named, there's something there.

But as someone who works in finance, don't you find it irrelevant to use NHL figures to compare NBA ones (and again, if freaking Memphis can make it work...) when we don't know what capacity at the Bell Center would look like, TV rights, advertising, etc. etc. etc.

Don't think there's much Toronto could do - or would do - to prevent an NBA team in Montreal. Both are more than big enough to have their own fanbase.

I'm pretty burnt out on this though and getting ready to finish up my work and enjoy the sunny weather so I'll say cheers to the discussion!

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Okay, but there's no comparison to make between Quebec City and a global city like Montreal. Like, what are we talking about here? How is that even a comparable example?

It might woek but it doesn't matter. There is no one willing to shell out money for a Montreal franchise in any sport.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It doesn't matter. There is no onje willing to shell out money for a Montreal franchise in any sport.

Why say things that you could have just looked up in a second?

NBA says 'there is interest' in an expansion team in Montreal | TSN

NBA commissioner Adam Silver says he is aware "there is interest" in a possible expansion team in Montreal.

www.tsn.ca

Silver broached the subject in a televised interview during Monday night's game between the Boston Celtics and the New York Knicks.

In particular, he said that he was not ruling out the possibility of setting up a new franchise in Canada, in Montreal or Vancouver, or even in Mexico City, Mexico.

Asked about a possible expansion, the NBA commissioner said the league would consider the option after the TV rights are renewed - the current deal will expire after the 2024-25 season.

"It's become a very good basketball market," he said on air, referring to Canada. "I'd say the Toronto Raptors have done a very good job... of becoming Team Canada. I know there's interest in Montreal. And I know there's always been interest in Vancouver."

A group of business professionals who have been trying to set up an NBA team in Montreal for more than six years, including Quebec politician Michael Fortier, said last March that there was "nothing to report" on the subject. Fortier added during the same public appearance that an NBA expansion team would cost between US$2 and US$3 billion.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Would not have taken any heat if not captain. Laine would be a scorer on a short contract on a team that now has an identity and in a total rebuild since longer than it takes to redo a street corner downtown.

It’s been 3 years, that’s the bare minimum for a rebuild and that’s if you hit on a generational talent. I won’t piss and moan if we trade for Laine and will wish him well and trust mgmts judgement, just don’t see him being a fit when you take into account his playing style, recent issues and contract $ and term.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I had to scroll back to the top to know this thread was about Patrick Lane. For a moment I was thinking what the hell with nba cities? Am I in a basketball board?

 

[MoneyManny]

I wasn't meaning you in my post by the way, I may disagree with you, but I do think you approach this stuff in good faith.

But yeah, sorry, until I see hard data that corroborates what you're saying like I asked in the other thread, you're not going to convince me that the city of Montreal can't support another major league team when the likes of Cleveland (with 3), Pittsburgh (3), Denver (4), Detroit (4), New Orleans (2) etc. etc. etc. etc. can do so without a problem. Your theory just doesn't hold up when you look around the leagues, whether it comes to culture, money and/or corporate backing.

It's not bigotry but all of this stuff feels like Anglophones who are bitter about ancient city politics (which I don't even particularly disagree with in spirit) and coming to a bunch of faulty conclusions because of it.

Montreal has 3 major league sports teams. Of which 2 of them have been drowning for a long time, and we already lost a MLB team that nobody went to see.

Do you believe investors are lining up to make the worst decision in their lives by investing a billion dollars in Montreal for sports?

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's funny. You and I always seem to totally disagree, or be 100% on the same page. Never any in between. This case is totally the latter. Laine makes sense for so many reasons, assuming the price of acquisition is palatable. Obviously it has to work for both sides and I'm not sure it will though.

The price to acquire is critical but yeah, if it works, Laine can help this team and the 2 year term fits. Anytime you can add a talent like this, we must be open to it.

 

[Prettyisland]

He and his girlfriend put out a video talking about the importance of communicating about mental health struggles. Looks like he’s taking this head on and making it a part of his personal journey. Very positive sign

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

He and his girlfriend put out a video talking about the importance of communicating about mental health struggles. Looks like he’s taking this head on and making it a part of his personal journey. Very positive sign

Good on him for doing that. Talking about your experiences and sharing them with others is a big part of the recovery process. If he can help even one other person by doing that, it's absolutely worth it.