The Advanced Stats Thread Episode VIII:

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My issue with McLeod is that there’s a much better grinder that can actually play hockey and has ties to David Quinn in Chris Stewart.

McLeod will always be a gutless coward to me after that Nashville game. Glass sucked eggs, but at least he did stand up for teammates when it was necessary.
 
My issue with McLeod is that there’s a much better grinder that can actually play hockey and has ties to David Quinn in Chris Stewart.

McLeod will always be a gutless coward to me after that Nashville game. Glass sucked eggs, but at least he did stand up for teammates when it was necessary.
What are you talking about, he gave a very stern talking to Austin Watson, as far as I remember.

Deterrent!
 
My issue with McLeod is that there’s a much better grinder that can actually play hockey and has ties to David Quinn in Chris Stewart.

McLeod will always be a gutless coward to me after that Nashville game. Glass sucked eggs, but at least he did stand up for teammates when it was necessary.

Right. McLeod sucks. But it's a one-year deal in what amounts to a season we aren't even pretending to compete in. If McLeod helps a kid in any aspect, it's a victory. If not, we can waive his ass and get rid of him.

The biggest "WGAF" signing of all time, yet we are still ranting in crazy hyperbolic terms in September about it. I guess when there's nothing really to claim about, all we can do is grasp at straws.
 
Yes, McLeod is the only player I ever complain about on this team. I am thrilled with the organization's drafting, and personnel choices everywhere but on this one, very specific, negligible player. You've got me pegged!

I'm glad that you avoided the rest of the post where I pointed out your vastly incorrect bullshit. Smart to take the L and move on.
 
I'm glad that you avoided the rest of the post where I pointed out your vastly incorrect bull****. Smart to take the L and move on.
Think you and I just need a break for debating things with each other because we're not really capable of empathizing with the other person, and making grandiose claims without substance. Both sides to blame. I'm avoiding the football thread for this reason.

It's not you, it's me. Let's take a break.
 
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Right. McLeod sucks. But it's a one-year deal in what amounts to a season we aren't even pretending to compete in. If McLeod helps a kid in any aspect, it's a victory. If not, we can waive his ass and get rid of him.

The biggest "WGAF" signing of all time, yet we are still ranting in crazy hyperbolic terms in September about it. I guess when there's nothing really to claim about, all we can do is grasp at straws.
Right, and I understand that. It’s fine to have a plug this year to be the 13th F, and most teams usually have one of these players. My problem is purely with McLeod, and I’m just going to leave it at that. I think most people would prefer someone like Chris Stewart and would be fine with it for the year.
 
Back on topic: Would you sign this 34 year old player for any amount of money to play for your organization professionally at any level anywhere in the world?

Past four-years total, aggregated, 5v5...

271 games
8.5 minutes per game
0.84 p/60
-6.52 relCF%
-5.15 relxGF%
-3.3 relGF%
-37 penalty differential

I know what you're thinking. Well, silverfish, probably not, but how do these numbers rank in comparison to the rest of the league? Good question. If you aggregate the same four seasons, and include a TOI cutoff of 1000 minutes, this player ranks, out of 476 forwards:

442nd in p/60
465th in relCF%
442nd in relxGF%
322nd in relGF% (plan the ****ing parade)
474th in penalty differential

I ask again. Would an idiot sign this player to any amount of money? I think yes. Thus, I would not sign this player for any amount of money. Other people may disagree. Totally cool.

And the only reason I didn't want to let this point die, Jon, is because even if McLeod was paying the Rangers, and not the other way around, it's still bad for the team. If he's on the ice, it's a negative. If he's on the roster, it's a negative. If he's anywhere in the organization, it's a negative. Eye-test, stats-test, any-test, this dude should not have been given any money from any team. I firmly believe he'd be useless in the ECHL. I think he'd get dominated in the NCAA. He was crap in the WHL until his overage year, where he still wasn't even that good. Could he go back and be useful at age 34 with his skillset there? I really doubt it.
Not if the goal is the draft Jack Hughes. Then it's a huge positive lol.
 
What if the goal is to have faith that your team's FO can correctly identify personnel that will positively impact the team on the ice?
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Think you and I just need a break for debating things with each other because we're not really capable of empathizing with the other person, and making grandiose claims without substance. Both sides to blame. I'm avoiding the football thread for this reason.

It's not you, it's me. Let's take a break.

I'm not making any grandiose claim, though. It's a throwaway signing, dude. It's a "WGAF" moment in Rangers history.

Wake me when he's actually taking away ice time from deserving kids and/or actually hurting the team. This is like me complaining about tomorrow's coffee from my street truck vendor when I don't even get coffee from him since it's free in the office.
 
Right, and I understand that. It’s fine to have a plug this year to be the 13th F, and most teams usually have one of these players. My problem is purely with McLeod, and I’m just going to leave it at that. I think most people would prefer someone like Chris Stewart and would be fine with it for the year.

For sure. I'd take any number of players over the guy. He blows. But who cares? It's a one-year deal with no NMC at basically league minimum. Normally this would be one of those "man, if we are analyzing this move, the team is clearly great and has no problems!" sort of deals. But . . . it's not. Lol.
 
That doesn't make it okay/good.

This depends on what the team is trying to accomplish with the player. I would agree that a bad player without any other quality is a bad move (if McLeod was an asshole, he wouldn't be on the team). If the team feels that said bad player contributes and it feels that it can measure the contributions, than it becomes a better discussion. Case in point is when you have a rebuilding team not looking to compete adding someone they think could bring something to the team.

This is not a black-and-white issue and never will be (unless sports psychologists begin getting involved in the metrics game). But stubborn individuals who can only view the world through the lens of something having to be either black or white will just never understand that.

And that's not even taking into consideration that this stupid debate is about a player with essentially league-minimum salary on a 1-year deal.
 
I think there are still factions within the Rangers management who value the McLeod role.

Without him in that role, if those who advocated for it turned out to be correct and the Rangers ended up being smacked around early season, where would that lead?

To the Rangers having to find a player to fill the McLeod role by either trade or another signing of whatever else is leftover. Providing proof to those who hold that opinion to be correct?

Fortune cookie says: Sometimes placating those who hold opinions you do not necessarily agree with protects from painting ones self into a corner.
 
This depends on what the team is trying to accomplish with the player. I would agree that a bad player without any other quality is a bad move (if McLeod was an *******, he wouldn't be on the team). If the team feels that said bad player contributes and it feels that it can measure the contributions, than it becomes a better discussion. Case in point is when you have a rebuilding team not looking to compete adding someone they think could bring something to the team.

This is not a black-and-white issue and never will be (unless sports psychologists begin getting involved in the metrics game). But stubborn individuals who can only view the world through the lens of something having to be either black or white will just never understand that.

And that's not even taking into consideration that this stupid debate is about a player with essentially league-minimum salary on a 1-year deal.

If he has intangibles or whatever that makes him a good teammate and that in theory will help our Young players develop during a rebuild year, why not sign him (or someone with these same qualities) as a coach? Why have him signed as a player when he's the worst player in the League and he will take TOI from someone better.
 
f*** it never mind. If you think for whatever reason that a bottom 2% (being generous) NHL player being signed as a free agent by your team isn't an issue because he's fun in the locker room valuable off the ice, I mean, god bless. I wish I could see the world that way.
 
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Remember Allen Iverson's 'we talkin about practice..?!'......my feels when people think McLeod a few minutes a night is gonna somehow destroy this team or something. it's utterly pedantic.
 
Remember Allen Iverson's 'we talkin about practice..?!'......my feels when people think McLeod a few minutes a night is gonna somehow destroy this team or something. it's utterly pedantic.
This. Is. Not. The. Point. And. Never. Has. Been.

The point is debating the merits of said player, and why the NYR FO continues to seek out and employ this type of player.
 
It's a stupid signing, but I'm not gonna lose my mind over it. Especially since w don't really know how Quinn is going to play it.

There was a clear issue with AV playing these types of goons. But I'm giving Quinn the benefit of the doubt. Just because they signed McLeod doesn't mean Quinn is gonna play him. He could be gone before the season starts. We'll see.
 
Don't care that AV played him too much. Don't care how Quinn will use him.

Care that the FO consistently targets these types of players.
He's more or less going to play the year in the AHL anyway.No reason to let it ruin your day. :)
 
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