The 5 tanks are back at it!

[Nicko999]

Honestly it is surprising how consistent those teams are season to season. Same bottom 5 for 3 years now.

22-23 season:

32- Ducks 58 pts
31- Jackets 59 pts
30- Hawks 59 pts
29- Sharks 60 pts
28- Habs 68 pts

23-24 season

32- Sharks 47 pts
31- Hawks 52 pts
30- Ducks 59 pts
29- Jackets 66 pts
28- Habs 76 pts

This season

I am not sure of that stats but it must be pretty rare to have the same 5 teams at the bottom for 3 years straight.

Click to read more...

 

[thedjpd]

Honestly it is surprising how consistent those teams are season to season. Same bottom 5 for 3 years now.

22-23 season:

32- Ducks 58 pts
31- Jackets 59 pts
30- Hawks 59 pts
29- Sharks 60 pts
28- Habs 68 pts

23-24 season

32- Sharks 47 pts
31- Hawks 52 pts
30- Ducks 59 pts
29- Jackets 66 pts
28- Habs 76 pts

This season
View attachment 932116

I am not sure of that stats but it must be pretty rare to have the same 5 teams at the bottom for 3 years straight.

Would be the best thing for the league is tanking was proven to be mostly ineffective, or at best 50/50. I think we got spoiled in the last 20 years by almost to near almost generational players being at #1 or #2 overall (Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid, MacKinnon, Kane) who can pull up bottom dwellers to respectability alone (and often, not even).

Even if they can, it takes many years - see: Ovechkin, McDavid. Tanking will hopefully become worth it for a team but only if there's a generational level player in it at the end - maybe, just maybe, it's hopeful that if you "just get an all-star" player, the purposeful tank may not fruitful enough to tank entire seasons for them (as that would be a 1/4 chance at best for the worst team in the league).

 

[Maitz]

I remember having 2-3 teams always at the bottom of the standings for few years in a row but now 3 years having the same bottom 5, not sure if it's a good thing

 

[bud12]

Rebuilding take time!!!

 

[Nogatco Rd]

crazy that you can look at the Blue Jackets’ schedule and spot the moment when their jinx thread was started

Dean Evason and the Columbus Blue Jackets

now have the second best goal differential in the metro. team is playing incredible hockey right now. Elvis has stopped 60 of his last 61 shots. (shutout tonight) the monahan-chinakhov-marchenko line is currently graded the #1 forward line in the entire league. jackets currently are scoring...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[tiburon12]

Would be the best thing for the league is tanking was proven to be mostly ineffective, or at best 50/50. I think we got spoiled in the last 20 years by almost to near almost generational players being at #1 or #2 overall (Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid, MacKinnon, Kane) who can pull up bottom dwellers to respectability alone (and often, not even).

Even if they can, it takes many years - see: Ovechkin, McDavid. Tanking will hopefully become worth it for a team but only if there's a generational level player in it at the end - maybe, just maybe, it's hopeful that if you "just get an all-star" player, the purposeful tank may not fruitful enough to tank entire seasons for them (as that would be a 1/4 chance at best for the worst team in the league).

Tanking has proven to be more unsuccessful than successful over course of the post-lockout era. MacKinnon and Ekblad are the only #1 picks since 08 #1 Stamkos to win the cup. ~10 years for each of them to win. For reference, Malkin/Crosby were drafted in 04/05 and won in 09, Toews/Kane drafted in 06/07 and won in 10. This kinda of turnaround doesn't happen anymore.

In that same window 2008-present window:

• #2 Barkov, Hedman, Doughty, Landeskog all won with their draft teams, Eichel and reinhart after trades, and Seguin on his draft team(but the Bruins didnt tank to get him).
• #3 Bogosian won with not his draft team and in a bottom pair role
• #4 Byram, Makar, Pietrangelo are the only winners with their draft team, Bennett won on his 2nd team. Critically, Makar and Byram were drafted 6 and 8 years, respectively, after Landeskog, who was 2 years AFTER Duchene and O'reilly were drafted.
• #5 Schenn bros are the only to win, both not on their draft teams.

Thats 17 players across 7 cup winning teams, over 16 years and 90 top 5 picks.

Point being, tanking isn't a guarantee for success and even if it is, the teams who have proved it works took a decade to make it happen AND got arguably their most important pieces years after tanking a top pick (Rantanen/Makar, Kucherov/Vasi, Tkachuk/Bob).

Ducks and Habs are a great example of why tanking is a risk, and as a Sharks fan i'm definitely nervous about the next few years. Nothing is close to a guarantee

 

[Crow]

To me it seems understandable that most of these teams are still this bad due to being early in their rebuilds and other circumstances.

I wonder if the same 5 might be the worst 5 next year too.

I am a little surprised at the ducks inability to get out of the gutter at this point, especially considering their goalie play. Will Anaheim add some decent vets from free agency? If not I am not sure when things start to click for them.

I don’t feel like I have the best read on the blue jackets next year. Are their prospects failing? People made Jricek out to be the second coming shortly after he was drafted and his stock has fallen pretty hard. He is still very young, and so are their other top guys. Too soon to say. Probably too soon to expect a major step forward.

I would expect the habs to take a step forward out of the bottom 5 next year. Kirby Dach looks terrible, that’s a bit of a blow.

Sharks and hawks look to be bottom 5 next year too. Fans of these teams will not be watching playoff hockey until ‘27-28 at the earliest.

 

[Joemoe]

Ah yes the chosen five, would be pretty crazy if this group finished in whatever order for a third season in a row.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

How do the other major sports leagues compare in time to turn around a rebuild? More or less the same?

 

[Daishi]

Tanking has proven to be more unsuccessful than successful over course of the post-lockout era. MacKinnon and Ekblad are the only #1 picks since 08 #1 Stamkos to win the cup. ~10 years for each of them to win. For reference, Malkin/Crosby were drafted in 04/05 and won in 09, Toews/Kane drafted in 06/07 and won in 10. This kinda of turnaround doesn't happen anymore.

In that same window 2008-present window:

• #2 Barkov, Hedman, Doughty, Landeskog all won with their draft teams, Eichel and reinhart after trades, and Seguin on his draft team(but the Bruins didnt tank to get him).
• #3 Bogosian won with not his draft team and in a bottom pair role
• #4 Byram, Makar, Pietrangelo are the only winners with their draft team, Bennett won on his 2nd team. Critically, Makar and Byram were drafted 6 and 8 years, respectively, after Landeskog, who was 2 years AFTER Duchene and O'reilly were drafted.
• #5 Schenn bros are the only to win, both not on their draft teams.

Thats 17 players across 7 cup winning teams, over 16 years and 90 top 5 picks.

Point being, tanking isn't a guarantee for success and even if it is, the teams who have proved it works took a decade to make it happen AND got arguably their most important pieces years after tanking a top pick (Rantanen/Makar, Kucherov/Vasi, Tkachuk/Bob).

Ducks and Habs are a great example of why tanking is a risk, and as a Sharks fan i'm definitely nervous about the next few years. Nothing is close to a guarantee

You failed to discuss the definition of success. Winning the Cup is a terrible measurement. One team wins the Cup every year. Was every decision by every team which did not win a bad one? You're making up stats to support a false premise. You can imagine any while you're at it: "How many times did acquiring the best goalie in the league result in winning the Cup? See???!! It doesn't work most of the time!! We shouldn't try to get a good goalie!"

Tanking and drafting future super stars results in media buzz, ticket and merchandise sales, advertising, making the team more attractive for good coaches and players as a destination, points and wins, the list goes on.

If you actually did analysis and came to the conclusion that multiple very bad seasons actually do more harm to the franchise compared to the eventual upswing made possible by high first and 2nd round picks then you'd got something, but all you said is duh see they don't win the Cup that often. Duh, winning the cup requires hundreds of things to go right, not only getting a star player, despite it surely being a big help.