The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[GrierIsGod123]

Even that would be tough for another GM because of the cap implications.

Cozens at $7.1M + Power at $8.35M is almost $15.5M against the cap. Byram is at $3.85M this year, but he will likely want the Power deal after the season.

EPete is at $11.6M. So, that is adding almost $4M against the cap for Cozens+Power for Vancouver. With Boeser hitting UFA after this year and Demko hitting UFA after next season, they may value that cap space to keep their guys as opposed to trading for young guys that are struggling and already have big cap hits.

I'd happily pay up to get EPete. His salary will likely end up being a bargain for a 1C in the near future ... but just can't see him being moved. They'd likely prefer to move Miller considering age and the likely drop-off in play coming soon. EPete is a point per game center for his career and is only 26...so just don't see any team trading that for Dylan Cozens, even if you included Byram in the deal (which I would easily do btw). Having EPete/Tage/McLeod as your top 3 centers would be very good.

I'm also extremely skeptical that any team will want to pay Cozens $7M all things considered. You almost hope that teams look at recent history of Sabres centers being traded and think it'll work out for them too. He's one player where I don't think a change of scenery will benefit him all that much ... he's simply not good. I'm sure he'd get a boost initially but so far he's been completely unable to play in any sort of real NHL system with any modicum of success.

I’d add to that NAK/Lafferty have missed time due to injuries and benching. Beck got sat for a couple games as well.

The much talked about 4th line built in the offseason has hardly played together. Only 28mins total. It seemed like an intriguing tool to have but its never really been used.

It's really three bad hockey players though. If you look at on-ice impact, Girgensons and Okposo were better. Also, I think it puts a stain on Krebs who really doesn't look like an every day NHL'er when he's not being sheltered by better hockey players.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Even that would be tough for another GM because of the cap implications.

Cozens at $7.1M + Power at $8.35M is almost $15.5M against the cap. Byram is at $3.85M this year, but he will likely want the Power deal after the season.

EPete is at $11.6M. So, that is adding almost $4M against the cap for Cozens+Power for Vancouver. With Boeser hitting UFA after this year and Demko hitting UFA after next season, they may value that cap space to keep their guys as opposed to trading for young guys that are struggling and already have big cap hits.

I think Soucy or something like that would come back to even out the money this year.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think Soucy or something like that would come back to even out the money this year.

The money is not a this year thing, though.

Cozens and Power are locked into those deals for the foreseeable future and that creates more cap issues for Vancouver moving forward.

I don't see how they see the team being better with adding Cozens and Power, losing EPete, and the inflated deals for Cozens and Power costing them the ability to retain Boeser and/or Demko.

 

[GrierIsGod123]

The money is not a this year thing, though.

Cozens and Power are locked into those deals for the foreseeable future and that creates more cap issues for Vancouver moving forward.

I don't see how they see the team being better with adding Cozens and Power, losing EPete, and the inflated deals for Cozens and Power costing them the ability to retain Boeser and/or Demko.

Yup ... not good trading partners unfortunately. No one wants our overpaid bums unless we basically get nothing of value in return. We're not getting a bonafide # 1 center for anyone on our roster outside of Dahlin.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

The money is not a this year thing, though.

Cozens and Power are locked into those deals for the foreseeable future and that creates more cap issues for Vancouver moving forward.

I don't see how they see the team being better with adding Cozens and Power, losing EPete, and the inflated deals for Cozens and Power costing them the ability to retain Boeser and/or Demko.

The cap is going up exponentially. I just don’t see the long-term concern on their end.

Also - most teams operate on a year by year basis with the cap, as they should.

 

[Jim Bob]

The cap is going up exponentially. I just don’t see the long-term concern on their end.

Also - most teams operate on a year by year basis with the cap, as they should.

No matter how you slice it, I do not see Cozens + Power or Byram moving the needle with the Canucks and landing a 1C like EPete. Even if things were toxic between EPete and Miller, Miller is the guy that goes in all likelihood.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Things have gotten so bad that I didn't feel an ounce of animosity toward a Flyers fan shitting on our team in our GDT.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

No matter how you slice it, I do not see Cozens + Power or Byram moving the needle with the Canucks and landing a 1C like EPete. Even if things were toxic between EPete and Miller, Miller is the guy that goes in all likelihood.

It doesn’t sound like that’s the case from Rutherford’s POV.

 

[Tatanka]

Thompson would be my trade chip. He is not a 1C and should return a better haul than Cozens. I would be looking for a C in return. It also ends the meme that he is a difference maker. Yes he will produce elsewhere but in a reduced role. I don't care. He is a huge part of the problem of having players playing their game and not a team game.

From the NHL roster
Keep:
Dahlin
Benson
One of Power/Byram
UPL

Listen on everyone else.
From the prospect pool

Keep:
Kulich
Helenius
Wahlberg
Novikov

again listen on everyone else.
Criteria for evaluating players:
Hockey IQ
Willingness to be physical
Proven production in their role. I.E. 3rd line production for 3rd line minutes etc.

Skill is nice to have but production is better.

I do not think this will happen, but this is the season of unsubstantiated hope.

 

[Fjordy]

Don't get hung up on EP40, there are plenty of other top 6 C in the NHL

 

[DapperCam]

From the NHL roster
Keep:
Dahlin
Benson
One of Power/Byram
UPL

I would probably also keep Quinn, just because his value has never been lower and we've seen flashes of greatness from him. He won't return a difference maker on his own, so why sell low? Also, he hasn't gotten one of Adams' ridiculous long contracts yet.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Thompson would be my trade chip. He is not a 1C and should return a better haul than Cozens. I would be looking for a C in return. It also ends the meme that he is a difference maker. Yes he will produce elsewhere but in a reduced role. I don't care. He is a huge part of the problem of having players playing their game and not a team game.

From the NHL roster
Keep:
Dahlin
Benson
One of Power/Byram
UPL

Listen on everyone else.
From the prospect pool

Keep:
Kulich
Helenius
Wahlberg
Novikov

again listen on everyone else.
Criteria for evaluating players:
Hockey IQ
Willingness to be physical
Proven production in their role. I.E. 3rd line production for 3rd line minutes etc.

Skill is nice to have but production is better.

I do not think this will happen, but this is the season of unsubstantiated hope.

I really dont have interest in cratering our center spine further. We'd then need two top-6 Cs. I'd still eye trading Tuch. Low IQ player in a top-6 full of those types of players. Probably would garner a ton of interest because he's been good in the playoffs in the past + plays the type of game GMs feign for when the playoffs come around.

And whatever good vibes he brings to the locker-room clearly isn't enough. He's been one of the veteran leaders on this squad, and that's led them to an abysmal home record and no playoffs.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Don't get hung up on EP40, there are plenty of other top 6 C in the NHL

How many are available and don’t have trade protection?

 

[Fjordy]

I really dont have interest in cratering our center spine further. We'd then need two top-6 Cs. I'd still eye trading Tuch. Low IQ player in a top-6 full of those types of players. Probably would garner a ton of interest because he's been good in the playoffs in the past + plays the type of game GMs feign for when the playoffs come around.

And whatever good vibes he brings to the locker-room clearly isn't enough. He's been one of the veteran leaders on this squad, and has led them to an abysmal home record and no playoffs.

At TDL his value will probably be the highest, but we only need hockey deals.

Thompson is more of a first-line winger than a center, but trading him is risky and we'll need to find two top-6 C.

How many are available and don’t have trade protection?

Is EP40 available?

 

[Jim Bob]

Don't get hung up on EP40, there are plenty of other top 6 C in the NHL

Not that are available in a trade.

 

[Fjordy]

Not that are available in a trade.

So is he available or not? You yourself say that Canucks doesn't trade him, you're confusing us all f***ing.

 

[GrierIsGod123]

Thompson would be my trade chip. He is not a 1C and should return a better haul than Cozens. I would be looking for a C in return. It also ends the meme that he is a difference maker. Yes he will produce elsewhere but in a reduced role. I don't care. He is a huge part of the problem of having players playing their game and not a team game.

From the NHL roster
Keep:
Dahlin
Benson
One of Power/Byram
UPL

Listen on everyone else.
From the prospect pool

Keep:
Kulich
Helenius
Wahlberg
Novikov

again listen on everyone else.
Criteria for evaluating players:
Hockey IQ
Willingness to be physical
Proven production in their role. I.E. 3rd line production for 3rd line minutes etc.

Skill is nice to have but production is better.

I do not think this will happen, but this is the season of unsubstantiated hope.

I agree ... I'd absolutely move Thompson for a better center that maybe costs more. Tage at $7M might be enticing to teams with cap problems. I think we all know he's not much of a difference maker in the toughest games or when things are going poorly. He's also a lackluster playmaker and relies upon individual efforts more than most 1C's in the league. He's basically a C-grade Matthews. As in worse in every single way imaginable, but similar basis to their game.

Your approach lines up with mine very well. Keep the higher IQ players, move one of the second pairing level d-men and purge several of the low IQ players from the top 6 group. Rebuild with an identity and a requirement for hockey sense with skill. Prioritize production on ALL lines. Your third liners should be capable of getting 15-20 goals and 40ish points. Even your fourth line should have guys that can get you 10-12 goals/20-30 points per year. McLeod, Zucker and Greenway are all in the mold of players I'd be willing to keep. Krebs, Lafferty, Malenstyn, Aube-Kubel can all go. Perhaps Kozak can be a real 4C.

Kulich and Helenius seem worth keeping as potential 2C's some day. Kulich does appear to play the position well and seems to have decent hockey sense in the middle of the ice. Helenius is starting to produce pretty well considering his age in the AHL. They're going to need a reak 1C to take pressure off of them though. That needs to be the ultimate goal, finding a real 1C via trade or draft (likely with a top 5 pick this year).

 

[TageGod]

The issue is, just like Eichel trade, disgruntled players eventually move for change adding up to .75 or 1. Tuch was maybe second liner here when acquired, Krebs was a prospect, and a pick. Cozens+ Kulich+ Krebs is the Eichel trade. Even though Cozens isn't great this year, he is at least worth Tuch at that time.

Why does VAN do it? Elias want's out, you get what you can get.

 

[GrierIsGod123]

I really dont have interest in cratering our center spine further. We'd then need two top-6 Cs. I'd still eye trading Tuch. Low IQ player in a top-6 full of those types of players. Probably would garner a ton of interest because he's been good in the playoffs in the past + plays the type of game GMs feign for when the playoffs come around.

And whatever good vibes he brings to the locker-room clearly isn't enough. He's been one of the veteran leaders on this squad, and that's led them to an abysmal home record and no playoffs.

I'm there with Tuch too ... unless he's willing to sign for a "hometown" discount at middle six money, he needs to be on the block. Any smart organization would be looking to maximize value on him while he's in his prime. Not that I really want to see him leave as he's probably my favorite of the low IQ bandits...but they may have no other choice considering his reasonable contract, age and simply the timing of it all.

 

[Fjordy]

Kulich and Helenius seem worth keeping as potential 2C's some day. Kulich does appear to play the position well and seems to have decent hockey sense in the middle of the ice. Helenius is starting to produce pretty well considering his age in the AHL. They're going to need a reak 1C to take pressure off of them though. That needs to be the ultimate goal, finding a real 1C via trade or draft (likely with a top 5 pick this year).

We need legit two top 6 C, any young player and proscpect available for me (except Benny).

It doesn't mean we'll necessarily trade them all, but holding on to them all and being afraid of losing them is not for me. We traded Savoie, even though I thought he was our #1 prospect, but I didn't complain about the trade because good NHL players are more important to us right now.

 

[GrierIsGod123]

The issue is, just like Eichel trade, disgruntled players eventually move for change adding up to .75 or 1. Tuch was a second liner when acquired, Krebs was a prospect, and a pick. Cozens+ Kulich+ Krebs is the Eichel trade. Even though Cozens isn't great this year, he is at least worth Tuch at that time.

Why does VAN do it? Elias want's out, you get what you can get.

Cozens is NOT worth Tuch at that time. Tuch's contract was much more reasonable. Cozens contract is potentially an albatross in this league, even with the cap going up. It'd be a huge risk for any team taking that on, so value will take that into consideration.

 

[slip]

So what you're saying is the hitting is up from last year?

Mission accomplished.

 

[Jim Bob]

How many are available and don’t have trade protection?

Let's go down the list of centers who are scoring at a PPG or better this season:

McDavid - NMC + untouchable
MacKinnon - NMC + untouchable
Draisaitl - M-NTC + untouchable
Point - NMC + untouchable
Necas - don't even talk about it
Eichel - NMC + LOL
Barkov - NMC + untouchable
D Strome - zero chance he gets traded
J Hughes - untouchable
Kopitar - NMC + untouchable
Scheifele - NMC + untouchable
Robert Thomas - zero chance he gets traded
Aho - NMC + untouchable
Seguin - NMC
N. Suzuki - I can't see Montreal trading him to Buffalo
W Nylander - NMC
Granlund - Pending UFA
Kempe - M-NTC
Duchene - NTC + pending UFA

Necas, Strome, Hughes, Thomas, Suzuki, and Granlund are the only guys that don't have trade protection that are over a PPG this year. And not all of them would be an upgrade over Tage at center.

 

[Fjordy]

Let's go down the list of centers who are scoring at a PPG or better this season:

McDavid - NMC + untouchable
MacKinnon - NMC + untouchable
Draisaitl - M-NTC + untouchable
Point - NMC + untouchable
Necas - don't even talk about it
Eichel - NMC + LOL
Barkov - NMC + untouchable
D Strome - zero chance he gets traded
J Hughes - untouchable
Kopitar - NMC + untouchable
Scheifele - NMC + untouchable
Robert Thomas - zero chance he gets traded
Aho - NMC + untouchable
Seguin - NMC
N. Suzuki - I can't see Montreal trading him to Buffalo
W Nylander - NMC
Granlund - Pending UFA
Kempe - M-NTC
Duchene - NTC + pending UFA

Necas, Strome, Hughes, Thomas, Suzuki, and Granlund are the only guys that don't have trade protection that are over a PPG this year. And not all of them would be an upgrade over Tage at center.

We are watching 2C or replace Tage?

 

[Jim Bob]

The issue is, just like Eichel trade, disgruntled players eventually move for change adding up to .75 or 1. Tuch was maybe second liner here when acquired, Krebs was a prospect, and a pick. Cozens+ Kulich+ Krebs is the Eichel trade. Even though Cozens isn't great this year, he is at least worth Tuch at that time.

Why does VAN do it? Elias want's out, you get what you can get.

There is zero chance they just move him for a bunch of garbage even if he wants out.

We see 2C or replace Tage?

The conversation was supposedly that the Sabres need a center better than Tage so that he can be the 2C behind the new guy.

If you are adding a center, like say Granlund, that isn't better than Tage, then you aren't accomplishing what the conversation was supposed to be about.

Then you are saying that all you need to try and do is upgrade over Cozens at 2C. And that is a slightly different conversation.