The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

Eichel wanted out before the surgery though. That was simply the straw that broke the camel back.

There was 6 years of screw ups prior to the Eichel situation going south that were the issue. If they were a consistent playoff team, the Sabres probably have a better relationship with Eichel and let him have the surgery.

From the view point of "this guy wants out" I can understand them not wanting him to get a risky surgery before trading him. The big problem was they should have been much more proactive in letting teams have the full medical records and getting bidders lined up before the draft rather than letting the situation drag out.

My take on the whole surgery thing was basically that Eichel wanted out and the surgery didn’t have a lot of/any NHL data on recovery. I think the Sabres just rejected to surgery to make it somebody else’s risk and maximize their return.

I like to think that our orthos/neurosurgeons aren’t so behind and that if somebody like Dahlin wanted it they would approve.

That said, I live in the capital region now and Albany Med is a terrible medical group. Mid size medical care can be bad. I’ve had some health issues the last few years and now have specialists in NYC and Cleveland Clinic. I won’t go anywhere else for any specialists at this point. Buffalo and Albany failed me over and over and over again. Even in NYC all my doctors give me an hour every time. They’re wildly thorough, and respond to any messages within a day.

I only keep doctors near by in case of an emergency. Otherwise my main primary, neuro, and rheumatologist are in NYC. I’m very close to moving my dentist to the city as well. My wife and I have had TERRIBLE dental care here.

All that to say, it’s super possible our orthos suck.

 

[TageGod]

Idk if anyone else can attest to this but has anyone else noticed a lot of rebuilds.... failing lately? What are the odds Sabres Detroit Ottawa +++ all fail? Is it the new age of kids coming in with a different mentality and not having a Sidney Crosby type or a Chris Drury to really shape the prospects? Coaches have less influence/control on the players? Detroit and Ottawa attract plenty of veteran FA's every year. I am still shocked at how bad an NHL defenseman can be at playing defense.

 

[Dreakon13]

Well, what's the problem, make trades, and don't wait until all the children grow up and possibly become influential players, you can wait forever.

I agree that they should be pursuing some kind of top 6 trade.

I just don't think we have enough assets to make more than one, maybe two, shake up deals for quality top 6 players... so either way I guess, you're left hoping largely the same group figures it out.

 

[Fjordy]

I agree that they should be pursuing some kind of top 6 trade.

I just don't think we have enough assets to make more than one or two shake up deals for quality top 6 players... so either way I guess, you're left hoping largely the same group of kids figure it out.

Well I disagree, we have enough assets to make 2-3 trades if needed. Almost any player on the roster could be available, any prospect and picks. Our roster is just not built right.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

1. I’d 5/6 year sign Byram first in order to reset the defensive cap situation.

2. Trade deadline I’d trade Tuch. Valuable asset power forward. I’m not taking picks, at least the main piece. Study the minor leagues and demand a 2/3 year past draftee that’s on the cusp…a kinda blue chipper as the main piece.

3. Unfortunately, I’d trade Dahlin. I guess my dream scenario would be a Draisaitl swap. I have a prime age, signed long term, top 6 defenseman and I’ll only entertain a similar age, #1 center in return.

Pros: a center spine of #1 center, Tage and McLeod is top 5 in the league. Resets the defense so we are not unbalanced with offensive lefties. Allows us to utilize our wingers and Cozens properly.

Cons: loose Dahlin. Huge. Still missing RD’s.

 

[Fjordy]

1. I’d 5/6 year sign Byram first in order to reset the defensive cap situation.

2. Trade deadline I’d trade Tuch. Valuable asset power forward. I’m not taking picks, at least the main piece. Study the minor leagues and demand a 2/3 year past draftee that’s on the cusp…a kinda blue chipper as the main piece.

3. Unfortunately, I’d trade Dahlin. I guess my dream scenario would be a Draisaitl swap. I have a prime age, signed long term, top 6 defenseman and I’ll only entertain a similar age, #1 center in return.

Pros: a center spine of #1 center, Tage and McLeod is top 5 in the league. Resets the defense so we are not unbalanced with offensive lefties. Allows us to utilize our wingers and Cozens properly.

Cons: loose Dahlin. Huge. Still missing RD’s.

Instead of trading good players, take away bad players and add good ones. You won't get Draisatl.

 

[TehDoak]

Idk if anyone else can attest to this but has anyone else noticed a lot of rebuilds.... failing lately? What are the odds Sabres Detroit Ottawa +++ all fail? Is it the new age of kids coming in with a different mentality and not having a Sidney Crosby type or a Chris Drury to really shape the prospects? Coaches have less influence/control on the players? Detroit and Ottawa attract plenty of veteran FA's every year. I am still shocked at how bad an NHL defenseman can be at playing defense.

Eh, each one is failing for different reasons.

Detroit doesn't have the the top end talent and haven't really drafted that great. They've gotten a lot of the mid tier UFAs at diminishing returns.

Ottawa has just had a myriad of injury issues. If I am picking one team that can break through its probably them.

Buffalo has simply been too reliant on internal growth rather than trying to add talent from outside the org.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

Dahlin n Cozens

Stutzle n Tkachuk

 

[Fjordy]

Dahlin n Cozens

Stutzle n Tkachuk

Ottawa say easy pass

 

[thewookie1]

Dahlin n Cozens

Stutzle n Tkachuk

I wouldn't do it.

 

[Fjordy]

It's elementary simple. Add to Dahlin, Tuch, Thompson, Benson, one of Power/Byram, UPL, Zucker, McLeod and maybe Peterka good and correct players for the necessary roles and that's it, and we'll make the playoffs.

 

[Dreakon13]

Well I disagree, we have enough assets to make 2-3 trades if needed. Almost any player on the roster could be available, any prospect and picks. Our roster is just not built right.

If we actually made 3 trades for quality, proven top 6 F/top 4 D players... considering how much we'd need to add and overpay to do that, considering the pieces we're looking to replace/sending out are largely unproven and/or damaged goods themselves... we'd mortgage basically everything. Not to mention being a buyer out of anything besides Cup aspirations is desperate in a bad way and a position of real disadvantage.

I get that the fans want to see the organization upheave itself because "f*** everything" and "it's been 13 years" but it's not realistic. I could see A trade like that happening, and it should happen. Maybe two, if I even thought Adams was capable of that lol, since both 2C and top 4 D are needs.

 

[Mattilaus]

If we actually made 3 trades for quality, proven top 6 F/top 4 D players... considering how much we'd need to add and overpay to do that, considering the pieces we're looking to replace/sending out are largely unproven and/or damaged goods themselves... we'd mortgage basically everything. Not to mention being a buyer out of anything besides Cup aspirations is desperate in a bad way and a position of real disadvantage.

I get that the fans want to see the organization upheave itself because "f*** everything" and "it's been 13 years" but it's not realistic. I could see A trade like that happening, and it should happen. Maybe two, if I even thought Adams was capable of that lol, since both 2C and top 4 D are needs.

If Adams doesn't feel like this core, with a couple extra pieces, can compete for a cup then he should sell them. If he does think this core, with a couple pieces added, can compete for a cup, then he should absolutely sell as many futures as it takes to build that cup contending team.

The worst thing we can do is what we have been doing, sitting around waiting for internal growth, accomplishing nothing.

 

[Dreakon13]

If Adams doesn't feel like this core, with a couple extra pieces, can compete for a cup then he should sell them. If he does think this core, with a couple pieces added, can compete for a cup, then he should absolutely sell as many futures as it takes to build that cup contending team.

The worst thing we can do is what we have been doing, sitting around waiting for internal growth, accomplishing nothing.

I mean, you're basically saying either go for broke or start up rebuild 7.0. Again, I get why fans might be saying that at this point, but I don't think either is realistic. I can understand why someone might look at most of this group and not be quite ready to jump to those extremes, the flashes of good out of most of these guys are very good. Just isn't consistent enough.

I'm all for one, maybe two, big overpayments (which is what it'd take) to fill some obvious gaps in the lineup and/or replace/push down guys who don't or maybe never had it. Anything more than that is just flailing.

 

[Fjordy]

If we actually made 3 trades for quality, proven top 6 F/top 4 D players... considering how much we'd need to add and overpay to do that, considering the pieces we're looking to replace/sending out are largely unproven and/or damaged goods themselves... we'd mortgage basically everything. Not to mention being a buyer out of anything besides Cup aspirations is desperate in a bad way and a position of real disadvantage.

I get that the fans want to see the organization upheave itself because "f*** everything" and "it's been 13 years" but it's not realistic. I could see A trade like that happening, and it should happen. Maybe two, if I even thought Adams was capable of that lol, since both 2C and top 4 D are needs.

I think you are wrong, we have undamaged goods, also I did not say that we will make three trades now. It could be one now, one at the TDL, another in the summer. Of course Adams should have done at least half of this before the season, but he did not. This is not desperation, this is smart work of the GM in building the team. Who said that in all the trades we buy some elite players and greatly overpay, no, this is not necessary.

Look at Zito, look at Fitzgerald, Tulsky/Wadell and other GMs, they pay a lot for some players? Obviously not.

 

[Dreakon13]

Who said that in all the trades we buy some elite players and greatly overpay, no, this is not necessary.

We're looking for proven NHL top 6 F/top 4 D talent, probably centers and defensemen in particular, premium positions... and the state of things in Buffalo is not some well kept secret. No one is doing us any favors.

 

[Mattilaus]

I mean, you're basically saying either go for broke or start up rebuild 7.0. Again, I get why fans might be saying that at this point, but I don't think either is realistic. I can understand why someone might look at most of this group and not be quite ready to jump to those extremes, the flashes of good out of most of these guys are very good. Just isn't consistent enough.

I'm all for one, maybe two, big overpayments (which is what it'd take) to fill some obvious gaps in the lineup and/or replace/push down guys who don't or maybe never had it. Anything more than that is just flailing.

I think maybe we just disagree when it comes to player evaluations. Have there been a few sparks of good? Sure, but I feel at this point we have much larger sample size of these guys not being it. I get they are young but we have hundreds of games played from players like Cozens and more of it has been bad at this point than good.

 

[Fjordy]

We're looking for proven NHL top 6 F/top 4 D talent, and the state of things in Buffalo is not some well kept secret. No one is doing us any favors.

No, that's the point, we're not looking for only proven guys, we're looking for different players. It's easy to find proven guys and in principle you can try to get them too, even not that expensive, but finding diamonds is harder, but that doesn't mean you should give up on it and do nothing. As I already said, look at other GMs and try to do the same, using your scouting and analytics department.

 

[Dreakon13]

I think maybe we just disagree when it comes to player evaluations. Have there been a few sparks of good? Sure, but I feel at this point we have much larger sample size of these guys not being it. I get they are young but we have hundreds of games played from players like Cozens and more of it has been bad at this point than good.

I think some of it is systemic. Maybe these are low IQ guys that just can't hang in there in the NHL on a playoff-bound team... but I also think if guys are constantly out of position or looking lost, then there's a piece missing between playing, and playing as a team. I think Ruff can get them there, it's the closest thing most of our "top guys" have ever had to a real NHL coach... but it's a shame we're in year 13 as fans and patience is understandably hard to come by.

No, that's the point, we're not looking for only proven guys, we're looking for different players. It's easy to find proven guys and in principle you can try to get them too, even not that expensive, but finding diamonds is harder, but that doesn't mean you should give up on it and do nothing. As I already said, look at other GMs and try to do the same, using your scouting and analytics department.

I'm fine with making some cheap moves on guys that probably won't work out. But I don't think it moves the needle.

 

[Fjordy]

I'm fine with making some cheap moves on guys that probably won't work out. But I don't think it moves the needle.

It works for others, but for some reason it doesn’t work for us, even though we already have a legit NHL coach and a lot of good players.

 

[Dreakon13]

It works for others, but for some reason it doesn’t work for us, even though we already have a legit NHL coach and a lot of good players.

Because it's not so black and white. We have those things but even our best players are damaged goods at this point. It's their first season with actual NHL coaching, the bad habits may take a long time to get worked out, if they ever totally do.

Bringing in a couple of question marks from other teams doesn't change the fact it's still on these guys, whoever we don't end up trading, to figure it out.

 

[Fjordy]

Because it's not so black and white. We have those things but even our best players are damaged goods at this point. It's their first season with actual NHL coaching, the bad habits may take a long time to get worked out, if they ever totally do. A couple of question marks from other teams doesn't change it's on these guys to figure it out.

How the hell are our best players damaged goods? Look at other teams and players, not everyone is perfect. Dude I just don't get you, maybe it's the language barrier and mentality, but I disagree with you. Good luck.

 

[Dreakon13]

How the hell are our best players damaged goods? Look at other teams and players, not everyone is perfect. Dude I just don't get you, maybe it's the language barrier and mentality, but I disagree with you. Good luck.

I think our best players are talented enough to make great individual plays most nights, leads to goals (sometimes), leads to wins (not often enough), leads to nice stat lines... but I think from top to bottom this group struggles to play a hard, consistent team game.

It's why when other teams turn it on and the individual plays stop working, everything kinda falls apart. It's why new guys that come in with real high end expectations tend to regress... and why our players tend to thrive on teams where they can be one of many and follow the lead of guys already playing functionally in a system.

We're not playing functionally in a system yet.

 

[Fjordy]

I think our best players are talented enough to make great individual plays, but I think from top to bottom this group struggles to play a hard, consistent team game.

It's why new guys that come in with real top line, top pairing expectations tend to regress... and why our players tend to thrive on teams where they can be one of many and follow the lead of guys already playing functionally in a system.

Or maybe because we haven't had a good GM and coach in a long time? I think because of that, not because they are "losers from Buffalo".

Who has regressed under Ruff now? I mostly see most of the good players, yes there are players who are playing with injuries or were injured, and these are our two best players.

There is Byram, who has only improved, Zucker and McLeod had a good impact at the beginning of the season. Benson was great despite all the difficulties he faced (injury, terrible line with Cozens). Peterka was very good before Tage's injury. Tuch sometimes he fluctuates, but still scores a lot of points and plays in all situations.

Cozens regressed last season, now he just continues to decline and I don't think it's Ruff's fault or Buffalo's fault specifically.

Quinn doesn't have such bad metrics away from Cozens, maybe he's struggling with an injury or its aftermath, but when he plays with Cozens his metrics immediately drop.

Basically I think we have a good core, but we have three PMD LDs and no good defensive top 4 RDs. We don't have a 2C, we don't have another legit top 6 forward or even a good mid-six forward. So those are huge holes in the roster and the GM obviously screwed up.

 

[Djp]

My take on the whole surgery thing was basically that Eichel wanted out and the surgery didn’t have a lot of/any NHL data on recovery. I think the Sabres just rejected to surgery to make it somebody else’s risk and maximize their return.

I like to think that our orthos/neurosurgeons aren’t so behind and that if somebody like Dahlin wanted it they would approve.

That said, I live in the capital region now and Albany Med is a terrible medical group. Mid size medical care can be bad. I’ve had some health issues the last few years and now have specialists in NYC and Cleveland Clinic. I won’t go anywhere else for any specialists at this point. Buffalo and Albany failed me over and over and over again. Even in NYC all my doctors give me an hour every time. They’re wildly thorough, and respond to any messages within a day.

I only keep doctors near by in case of an emergency. Otherwise my main primary, neuro, and rheumatologist are in NYC. I’m very close to moving my dentist to the city as well. My wife and I have had TERRIBLE dental care here.

All that to say, it’s super possible our orthos suck.

The issue was insurance would cover the contract if he had that surgery