Prospect Info: The 2023-2024 Prospects Thread Pt. 3

[VanJack]

Once you get past Lekkerimaki and Wilander, the Canucks prospect pool falls off a cliff. Fortunately they resisted the temptation to trade either of them at the TDL this season, And they need to continue to reject any trade requests.

Without a first and second round draft pick this season; and no second rounder next season; the Canuck prospect pool will inevitably sink well into the bottom five or six teams in the NHL.

 

[ManVanFan]

Once you get past Lekkerimaki and Wilander, the Canucks prospect pool falls off a cliff. Fortunately they resisted the temptation to trade either of them at the TDL this season, And they need to continue to reject any trade requests.

Without a first and second round draft pick this season; and no second rounder next season; the Canuck prospect pool will inevitably sink well into the bottom five or six teams in the NHL.

There is always adjustment in prospect pools.
I don't want a top tier prospect pool. Means the team sucks and is drafting high or the players suck and team isn't graduating prospects.

Draft well, develop properly.

 

[Petey O]

There is always adjustment in prospect pools.
I don't want a top tier prospect pool. Means the team sucks and is drafting high or the players suck and team isn't graduating prospects.

Draft well, develop properly.

What we need to have is talent development that can create found gold constantly and replace overpriced UFAs internally, like Tampa does.

You need to develop a system that doesn't consistently need first round picks to produce NHL talent. Easier said than done.

 

[ManVanFan]

What we need to have is talent development that can create found gold constantly and replace overpriced UFAs internally, like Tampa does.

You need to develop a system that doesn't consistently need first round picks to produce NHL talent. Easier said than done.

Dallas is good at it. Boston also seemingly finds players that have no business making the NHL but do well. Kings are fantastic at finding mid to late round players and the Ducks as well, almost every draft will have 3 players that play 200 plus games.

 

[Szechwan]

Dallas is good at it. Boston also seemingly finds players that have no business making the NHL but do well. Kings are fantastic at finding mid to late round players and the Ducks as well, almost every draft will have 3 players that play 200 plus games.

Dallas is still generally hitting on 1st and 2nd rounders though. We don't have those this year, and I'd bet money we trade our 2025 1st too.

 

[ManVanFan]

Dallas is still generally hitting on 1st and 2nd rounders though. We don't have those this year, and I'd bet money we trade our 2025 1st too.

Management in Van from Gillis through Benning was so inadequate in the asset department. It will take another 5 years for it to turn into a plus and as you said very possible they trade another pick or two to try and win some more. Will turn back into Gillis days. It looked like it was on the up for a year. So much good can be undone with one bad draft or poor asset management.

 

[VanJack]

There is always adjustment in prospect pools.
I don't want a top tier prospect pool. Means the team sucks and is drafting high or the players suck and team isn't graduating prospects.

Draft well, develop properly.

The major value of a good prospect pool, comes in managing the salary cap. Unless you're graduating players from your prospect ranks every year on ELC's, you're forced to troll the UFA market every year just to fill out your roster.

The Canucks are a living example of this folly. Every year they have to sign (and mostly overpay) for UFA's, especially on the blueline. Other than Wilander, the Canucks still don't really have a decent blueliner in their system.

A lackluster prospect pool creates a ripple effect up and down your roster.....which explains why, that up until last season, the Canucks were consistently one of the highest payroll teams in the league, with one of the worst records.

 

[ManVanFan]

The major value of a good prospect pool, comes in managing the salary cap. Unless you're graduating players from your prospect ranks every year on ELC's, you're forced to troll the UFA market every year just to fill out your roster.

The Canucks are a living example of this folly. Every year they have to sign (and mostly overpay) for UFA's, especially on the blueline. Other than Wilander, the Canucks still don't really have a decent blueliner in their system.

A lackluster prospect pool creates a ripple effect up and down your roster.....which explains why, that up until last season, the Canucks were consistently one of the highest payroll teams in the league, with one of the worst records.

I'm fine with giving up some picks for players but they NEED to be re-cooped at some point in time. I don't think drafting has got better with the new management. I'd still like to see some of the longer term scouts sent packing. The development has gotten a hell of a lot better. You still need to have a half decent prospect to develop.

 

[rea]

There are

There is always adjustment in prospect pools.
I don't want a top tier prospect pool. Means the team sucks and is drafting high or the players suck and team isn't graduating prospects.

Draft well, develop properly.

I think you can have a top tier prospect pool while still being competitive. Your last line says it. Draft well, develop properly.

I think that's my biggest dig at this franchise, is that for a team purported to be contending, or under the agenda for years that it'd do wtvr to get to the playoffs, they have done absolutely nothing to safeguard the backend in terms of getting more/better scouting, and hire more for the purpose of development. If you're going to go full stupid, selling picks, you better have the right personnel to find gems, and great coaches and people in play to make sure the assets you bring in have every possible advantage in their growth.

What I have read or seen is alot of scouts cut, crappy scouts here by nepotism, having scouts take on extra work in their regions due to lack of scouts or management/ownership feeling unnecessary to have more.

There are never guarantees with prospects, but the odds are even less if you could do more and you don't. Ftr, beyond a players talent, which is what gets them drafted, I believe the development side is huge. Having a good team of coaches that help with everything from fitness, to diet, to life and growth, consistently supporting the prospects, would go a long ways.

 

[wetcoast]

ya, but what if?

This is funny as I used to dream of becoming the oldest NHL rookie to lead a team (my Canucks to the SC), which had the what it as well, although truth be told my what if had like a 0.00000000001% chance while the examples given here are like 1% but still......

 

[ManVanFan]

There are

I think you can have a top tier prospect pool while still being competitive. Your last line says it. Draft well, develop properly.

I think that's my biggest dig at this franchise, is that for a team purported to be contending, or under the agenda for years that it'd do wtvr to get to the playoffs, they have done absolutely nothing to safeguard the backend in terms of getting more/better scouting, and hire more for the purpose of development. If you're going to go full stupid, selling picks, you better have the right personnel to find gems, and great coaches and people in play to make sure the assets you bring in have every possible advantage in their growth.

What I have read or seen is alot of scouts cut, crappy scouts here by nepotism, having scouts take on extra work in their regions due to lack of scouts or management/ownership feeling unnecessary to have more.

There are never guarantees with prospects, but the odds are even less if you could do more and you don't. Ftr, beyond a players talent, which is what gets them drafted, I believe the development side is huge. Having a good team of coaches that help with everything from fitness, to diet, to life and growth, consistently supporting the prospects, would go a long ways.

The Canucks staff would need to take a much different look to scouting then. Lol

 

[theguardianII]

Lame. The what-ifs go the other way too. What if he didn't trade Forsling, what if he kept Chatfield instead of getting rid of him like most of HF Canucks wanted, what if Juolevi didn't suffer movement-disabling injuries, what if Virtanen matured into an actual adult... and so on.

If we look at reality, he built today's core, but he sucked at virtually everything else. I'm glad I wasn't one of the ones pretending to be Benning's champion, but this what-if stuff is lame.


so, teams that have 2 of them... ok

It is a learning moment. What made all those posters think Benning was filling the pool?
This isn't a "what if" moment, it is "wake up and think for yourselves" time.
Some of those examples you use are from the lemmings just following what they were told to think.
For myself, I thought the 2014 draft, his first, was his best BUT I was not sold on Jake who was a one year wonder in junior and had a shoulder injury at the draft. I was a Larkin guy.
OF course the Juloevi pick, again if it had to be other than Tkachuk who was a surprise, the dman I thought of was Segachev. In truth any player other than Juloevi would have been a win.
I will admit I was not sold on Hughes, my picks were Dobson or Bouchard BECAUSE they were more complete players, they could play defence and offence where Hughes was mostly offense and struggled on defence. AND both are RHD which is coveted in the NHL.

In the spirit of "what if" and fantasy my team looks like,

Horvat, Larkin, Tkachuk, McCann, Boeser (BPA), not traded 2nd Peeke, Pettersson, Dobson, would have kept Tryamkin, Tanev, That's as far as I will go. These were all players they had or could have had. How they would have meshed, who knows. How would team success change draft position, maybe not much for a year or two after the Sedins leave.

 

[VanJack]

In just two drafts since taking over from the fired Benning regime, the Canucks have unearthed three or four guys who actually project some hope as blueline prospects.

Wilander, D-Petey, Kudryavtsev and Mynio may not all play in the NHL.....but at least they look like decent prospects on the blueline.

Other than Quinn Hughes, who basically fell into their laps, there's not one drafted d-man from the previous regime played more than a handful of games in the NHL.

Correction.....Gustav Forsling has played a ton of meaningful games in the NHL.....but none of them for the Canucks.

 

[604]

Once you get past Lekkerimaki and Wilander, the Canucks prospect pool falls off a cliff. Fortunately they resisted the temptation to trade either of them at the TDL this season, And they need to continue to reject any trade requests.

Without a first and second round draft pick this season; and no second rounder next season; the Canuck prospect pool will inevitably sink well into the bottom five or six teams in the NHL.

Disagree, if they traded them for what we needed, Demko might be playing in the Cup finals right now.

How much would Tanev have helped us?

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

In just two drafts since taking over from the fired Benning regime, the Canucks have unearthed three or four guys who actually project some hope as blueline prospects.

Wilander, D-Petey, Kudryavtsev and Mynio may not all play in the NHL.....but at least they look like decent prospects on the blueline.

Other than Quinn Hughes, who basically fell into their laps, there's not one drafted d-man from the previous regime played more than a handful of games in the NHL.

Correction.....Gustav Forsling has played a ton of meaningful games in the NHL.....but none of them for the Canucks.

That 2014 Draft might well be one of the most impactful drafts we had - just too bad 2 of the 3 big impacts were dealt away for crap (McCann and Forsling). At least we have Demko.

 

[Raistlin]

Disagree, if they traded them for what we needed, Demko might be playing in the Cup finals right now.

How much would Tanev have helped us?

This team is not built for playoffs. It's built to make playoffs. The additions made before tdl are deadline moves. Selling the farm for a shot this year means running into a team like Florida who is deep everywhere. Full of Lindholms, Millers and Zaddy. Management made the correct call, go all in when we actually have depth and an established team identity in the playoffs. No team just walks in and wins the cup right away after 8 years away.

 

[VanJack]

I don't blame Allvin for cashing in his chips, to bolster his roster before this year's Cup playoffs. Lindholm and Zadorov were two of Vancouver's best playoff performers.

They did exactly what they were acquired to do.....and the GM at least gave this year's edition of the Canucks a chance to go all the way. If you're a player on the Canucks or even just a fan, you can't ask for any more than that.

But the post-season is a crap-shoot. If Demko hadn't gone down; and Boeser forced to miss game #7 of the Oilers series, maybe it's the Canucks doing battle with the Panthers in the Cup final.

 

[IComeInPeace]

I don't blame Allvin for cashing in his chips, to bolster his roster before this year's Cup playoffs. Lindholm and Zadorov were two of Vancouver's best playoff performers.

They did exactly what they were acquired to do.....and the GM at least gave this year's edition of the Canucks a chance to go all the way. If you're a player on the Canucks or even just a fan, you can't ask for any more than that.

But the post-season is a crap-shoot. If Demko hadn't gone down; and Boeser forced to miss game #7 of the Oilers series, maybe it's the Canucks doing battle with the Panthers in the Cup final.

Yep…Allvin did his job.

It was an opportunity missed.

I’m not saying we were going to win the Cup or anything…but to have JTM playing at the level he was, and then Lindholm doing everything and more than was expected of him when we acquired him (in the playoffs)…if EP40 was playing like EP40 can (and should) that kind of center ice play is a lot to deal with especially if you’re getting top tier goaltending.

I’m not an EP40 hater…
…But with the way JTM and Lindholm were playing, if EP40 could have simply buried the 3rd line he was playing against, things go way differently.
Unfortunately he picked the worst time to play like a 4th liner.

 

[logan5]

I ranked SHL top goal scorers by their % of the teams total goals, and Lekkerimaki is 1st in the SHL by a pretty decent margin. He scored 16.5% of Orebro's total goals. The next best are David Tomasek - 14.2%, Marcus Sylvegård - 14.2%, Ty Rattie - 13.8%, Patrick Russell - 13.8%. Lekk also played less games, so he could have easily boosted that number to17.5% if he plays a full season like most of the other goal leaders.

Imo, this is an important stat that shows that he was the best goal scorer in the SHL this year. If he was on a top team (like Pettersson was) that scored 50% more goals than Orebro, Lekk probly leads the league in scoring and we are talking about him as a close to Pettersson level prospect. I think he makes the big club for opening night and has a pretty good shot at the Calder.

 

[MS]

I ranked SHL top goal scorers by their % of the teams total goals, and Lekkerimaki is 1st in the SHL by a pretty decent margin. He scored 16.5% of Orebro's total goals. The next best are David Tomasek - 14.2%, Marcus Sylvegård - 14.2%, Ty Rattie - 13.8%, Patrick Russell - 13.8%. Lekk also played less games, so he could have easily boosted that number to17.5% if he plays a full season like most of the other goal leaders.

Imo, this is an important stat that shows that he was the best goal scorer in the SHL this year. If he was on a top team (like Pettersson was) that scored 50% more goals than Orebro, Lekk probly leads the league in scoring and we are talking about him as a close to Pettersson level prospect. I think he makes the big club for opening night and has a pretty good shot at the Calder.

He didn’t even look close to being an NHLer during his disappointing AHL stint.

 

[credulous]

Imo, this is an important stat that shows that he was the best goal scorer in the SHL this year. If he was on a top team (like Pettersson was) that scored 50% more goals than Orebro, Lekk probly leads the league in scoring and we are talking about him as a close to Pettersson level prospect. I think he makes the big club for opening night and has a pretty good shot at the Calder.

over will smith, macklin celebrini and cutter gautier? matvei mitchkov is rumoured to be coming over also

 

[StreetHawk]

over will smith, macklin celebrini and cutter gautier? matvei mitchkov is rumoured to be coming over also

Generally, barring that 18 year old being insanely gifted, hard for an 18 year old to win the calder. Probably more likely to bet on someone from 2-3 drafts ago, who is more physically mature now.
Prior 6 Calder winners were not just drafted. But between Skinner in 2011 to Matthews in 2017, 5/7 Calder winners were just drafted. But, of that group of 5, Skinner was the smallest. The others were Landy, Mack, Ekblad, and Matthews, all bigger guys.

Edvisson played 25 games already, so he is just eligible. Wouldn't surprise me if he had a Faber type season.

 

[credulous]

Generally, barring that 18 year old being insanely gifted, hard for an 18 year old to win the calder. Probably more likely to bet on someone from 2-3 drafts ago, who is more physically mature now.
Prior 6 Calder winners were not just drafted. But between Skinner in 2011 to Matthews in 2017, 5/7 Calder winners were just drafted. But, of that group of 5, Skinner was the smallest. The others were Landy, Mack, Ekblad, and Matthews, all bigger guys.

Edvisson played 25 games already, so he is just eligible. Wouldn't surprise me if he had a Faber type season.

edvisson is great but not the type of player who wins the calder. brandt clarke or lane hutson might be in the conversation tho

 

[StreetHawk]

edvisson is great but not the type of player who wins the calder. brandt clarke or lane hutson might be in the conversation tho

Hutson probably expect to play in the A but hard to say with Montreal. They’ve been pushing their kids up like they did with Roy last year after a strong 35 game start in the A.

Clarke is would agree. Even fabers 47 point season isn’t likely to out vote the name of Bedard.

 

[MS]

Hutson probably expect to play in the A but hard to say with Montreal. They’ve been pushing their kids up like they did with Roy last year after a strong 35 game start in the A.

Clarke is would agree. Even fabers 47 point season isn’t likely to out vote the name of Bedard.

Hutson went straight into 23 minutes/game for Montreal and straight onto their top-unit PP.

He's getting fast-tracked onto that team and will be playing big minutes for them barring a disaster at training camp.

It will be an absolute crime if Bedard wins the Calder over Faber.