The 2022 Hockey Hall Of Fame

[Dennis Bonvie]

Keenan
Mogilny
Alfredson
Joseph

Keenan?

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Keenan?

Introduced the short shift games, won 2 canada cups, won the cup with the Rangers, had great success in Philly,Chicago, won in the KHL. A lot more deserving than lesser hall of famers like Pat Burns, Herb Brooks or Jerry York

 

[The Panther]

I've never thought of Keenan as a Hall of Famer, but there are worse options.

Up to and including his first season coaching St. Louis, Keenan's career regular season coaching record, over ten seasons, was an absolutely stellar: 423 - 267 - 82. That included 4 Conference championships (with three franchises) and the '94 Stanley Cup.

Add on to that:
-- Jr. B championships in 1979 and 1980 (Oshawa)
-- AHL championship in 1983 (Rochester)
-- 1987 and 1991 Canada Cup championships
-- KHL championship 2014 (Magnitogorsk)

 

[Big Phil]

Introduced the short shift games, won 2 canada cups, won the cup with the Rangers, had great success in Philly,Chicago, won in the KHL. A lot more deserving than lesser hall of famers like Pat Burns, Herb Brooks or Jerry York

Probably even deserves it more than Pat Quinn too. While there was the slimmest of margins, Keenan beat Quinn for the Cup in 1994. Funny thing is, Quinn was an old school type coach too. Was somewhat surly with the media and actually had at one point a ban from coaching in the NHL. But he's in, and I am okay with that, but if we are judging success, how is Keenan not there? And Burns? Yeah, sorry, don't see it.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Probably even deserves it more than Pat Quinn too. While there was the slimmest of margins, Keenan beat Quinn for the Cup in 1994. Funny thing is, Quinn was an old school type coach too. Was somewhat surly with the media and actually had at one point a ban from coaching in the NHL. But he's in, and I am okay with that, but if we are judging success, how is Keenan not there? And Burns? Yeah, sorry, don't see it.

Is induction in the builder's category based on success as a coach?

 

[Big Phil]

Is induction in the builder's category based on success as a coach?

Much of it is, yes. Someone like Roger Neilson gets in with the innovation angle (Captain Video). But if you look at the coaches who are in, they are generally dynasty coaches. Don Cherry could have the success of a coach along with his popularity afterwards intertwined in there.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Much of it is, yes. Someone like Roger Neilson gets in with the innovation angle (Captain Video). But if you look at the coaches who are in, they are generally dynasty coaches. Don Cherry could have the success of a coach along with his popularity afterwards intertwined in there.

But Keenan isn't a dynasty coach.

Not to mention he was one of the most loathed persons in hockey.

As a builder for hockey, how can Cherry not get in?

 

[Big Phil]

But Keenan isn't a dynasty coach.

Not to mention he was one of the most loathed persons in hockey.

As a builder for hockey, how can Cherry not get in?

At this point it is probably politics with Cherry. Not that I compare him to Pete Rose, but my guess is someday Pete Rose gets in with a different generation looking and saying "How is the all-time hits leader not in?" They wouldn't have been around when he got banned and don't have that grudge against him like the committee does today. Sort of how we think of Shoeless Joe Jackson today (although they still haven't put him in). But I think Rose will get in after he dies. It will be sort of a backhanded compliment because there is still some bad blood there. Sort of the same way he has never been allowed to work in MLB. I mean, come on, sure maybe don't have him manage, but have people ever heard Rose talk about baseball? He's a genius. There is no way I wouldn't want to have him as a hitting coach or at least an advisor on my team.

Anyway, Cherry has that same thing with him. He rubbed some of the Laurentian Elites the wrong way and I think when he dies he'll get in. Maybe because they don't want to give him the satisfaction over it? I don't know.

Keenan also has the two Canada Cups. Coaching one of the most famous teams in hockey history helps. Throw in three other Cup finals appearances outside of winning it all in 1994. That's a good career. They didn't call him Iron Mike for nothing. He was a hard-ass, but so was Scotty Bowman. I never understand why Keenan seems to get a lopsided reputation like this, compared to others who are similar.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

At this point it is probably politics with Cherry. Not that I compare him to Pete Rose, but my guess is someday Pete Rose gets in with a different generation looking and saying "How is the all-time hits leader not in?" They wouldn't have been around when he got banned and don't have that grudge against him like the committee does today. Sort of how we think of Shoeless Joe Jackson today (although they still haven't put him in). But I think Rose will get in after he dies. It will be sort of a backhanded compliment because there is still some bad blood there. Sort of the same way he has never been allowed to work in MLB. I mean, come on, sure maybe don't have him manage, but have people ever heard Rose talk about baseball? He's a genius. There is no way I wouldn't want to have him as a hitting coach or at least an advisor on my team.

Anyway, Cherry has that same thing with him. He rubbed some of the Laurentian Elites the wrong way and I think when he dies he'll get in. Maybe because they don't want to give him the satisfaction over it? I don't know.

Keenan also has the two Canada Cups. Coaching one of the most famous teams in hockey history helps. Throw in three other Cup finals appearances outside of winning it all in 1994. That's a good career. They didn't call him Iron Mike for nothing. He was a hard-ass, but so was Scotty Bowman. I never understand why Keenan seems to get a lopsided reputation like this, compared to others who are similar.

Not sure there is anyone (who hasn't been incarcerated) more disliked than Keenan in hockey.

No one has promoted the game as much as Don Cherry.

Pete Rose still can't form a sentence that doesn't have a betting reference. Remember a reporter asking him about his chances of getting in the Hall after all the investigations and his appeal. Pete responded "about 50-50". He probably bet on it.

 

[Big Phil]

Not sure there is anyone (who hasn't been incarcerated) more disliked than Keenan in hockey.

No one has promoted the game as much as Don Cherry.

Pete Rose still can't form a sentence that doesn't have a betting reference. Remember a reporter asking him about his chances of getting in the Hall after all the investigations and his appeal. Pete responded "about 50-50". He probably bet on it.

I was at the Baseball HOF back in 2010. I talked to an employee there and asked him about Pete Rose. He said there are honoured members in the Hall (former players) that would not want him in. He says he's met Rose, as Rose comes there to sign autographs for special occasions once in a while (that I didn't know). He said with a smile that he isn't the "nicest guy in the world" though. I think maybe that plays a role in it. Rose hasn't done a lot of favours for himself over the years. I believe he still lives around Las Vegas if I am correct. So that's not good. I get it, which is why I think he'll be in when he's dead and there will be a push for it.

As for Keenan, I don't see that with him off the ice. I will agree, on the ice he rubbed some guys the wrong way, he had an iron fisted approach, and while I think it worked, it may have damaged some relationships along the way. But off the ice? Keenan isn't the same person, and I think there should be a separation with that.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Some Keenan talk here: The Short Shift Game and Shorter 1970's/80's Careers

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I was at the Baseball HOF back in 2010. I talked to an employee there and asked him about Pete Rose. He said there are honoured members in the Hall (former players) that would not want him in. He says he's met Rose, as Rose comes there to sign autographs for special occasions once in a while (that I didn't know). He said with a smile that he isn't the "nicest guy in the world" though. I think maybe that plays a role in it. Rose hasn't done a lot of favours for himself over the years. I believe he still lives around Las Vegas if I am correct. So that's not good. I get it, which is why I think he'll be in when he's dead and there will be a push for it.

As for Keenan, I don't see that with him off the ice. I will agree, on the ice he rubbed some guys the wrong way, he had an iron fisted approach, and while I think it worked, it may have damaged some relationships along the way. But off the ice? Keenan isn't the same person, and I think there should be a separation with that.

When I visited the baseball hall in 2013, I was very surprised to see so much Pete Rose "stuff". His legacy as a player is documented, he's just not an inducted member. Which is fine with me.

Keenan:

"Despite Keenan's coaching record, his inability to maintain working relationships with players and team organizations has resulted in a lack of long-term coaching positions.[7] His coaching resume includes abrupt terminations or resignations from coaching or general manager positions, sometimes at bafflingly inopportune, or peak, moments of his career.[citation needed]

He was fired from the Philadelphia Flyers a year after leading them to the 1987 Stanley Cup Finals. After taking the Chicago Blackhawks to the 1992 Stanley Cup Finals, Keenan was forced to focus solely on his GM duties when longtime Blackhawk player and assistant coach, Darryl Sutter, was being courted by other teams to be their head coach. Owner Bill Wirtz did not want to lose Sutter, especially since Keenan had stated, in July 1992, that he wished to focus solely on his duties as general manager after the 92–93 season. Keenan lost a power struggle with Senior V.P. Bob Pulford after the 1992–93 season, resigned his position, and was soon hired by the New York Rangers. Keenan managed to coach the Rangers to the Stanley Cup in his first and only year as head coach, but was unable to coexist long enough with general manager Neil Smith and resigned weeks later, citing a violation of his contract by the Rangers.[8]

Stops in St. Louis and Vancouver saw conflict with team stars; both Brett Hull[4] and Trevor Linden[9] had major personality conflicts with Keenan. In one instance while the Blues were playing the Buffalo Sabres at The Aud, Dale Hawerchuk's dying grandmother, who lived in nearby Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada, came to see him play one last time while she was alive. Keenan deliberately benched Hawerchuk for the game, and an unhappy captain Brett Hull screamed at Keenan, who then responded by stripping Hull's captaincy.

Keenan was even willing to publicly criticize Wayne Gretzky after he acquired the superstar in a early 1996 trade with the Los Angeles Kings. Keenan had previously coached Gretzky in Canada Cup play, and his refusal to moderate his attitude and style even when coaching a team full of stars meant his relationship with the league's all-time leading scorer was never particularly warm. Gretzky refused to consider re-signing with St. Louis after during the 1996 off-season and opted instead to finish his playing career with Keenan's former team, the Rangers.

In September 2006, Keenan again attracted headlines when he abruptly resigned as general manager of the Florida Panthers. Keenan's resignation came shortly after he dealt Florida Panthers' franchise goaltender Roberto Luongo along with defenceman Lukas Krajicek and Florida's 2006 sixth-round draft pick (Sergei Shirokov) to the Vancouver Canucks for struggling forward Todd Bertuzzi, goaltender Alex Auld, and defenceman Bryan Allen. It was speculated that Keenan had lost a power struggle with head coach and longtime friend, Jacques Martin, over personnel decisions. Martin succeeded him as general manager upon his resignation.

He was also notorious for pulling or switching his goaltenders, sometimes multiple times in a period. Before the 1987 playoffs, he used Ron Hextall as the regular starting goalie. However, he pulled goaltenders Hextall and Chico Resch a total of five times in a single game (the fifth time to gain a man-advantage in the last minute of play) in game 4 of the first round of the 1987 playoffs. Three years later, he pulled goaltender Greg Millen in favor of Ed Belfour a total of four times in 8 games. That system was discontinued when he became the New York Rangers head coach and used Mike Richter as the regular starting goalie.

Goaltender Roberto Luongo said the following regarding Keenan's penchant for pulling his goaltenders while a member of the Florida Panthers in 2002:

"Not a big deal. [Keenan] does it so much that we expect it. If he's your coach and you're an NHL goalie on the bench, you have to be ready, just in case."[10]

KHL career[edit]​

On May 13, 2013, Keenan signed a contract with Metallurg Magnitogorsk of KHL.[11] On April 30, 2014, Keenan's Metallurg team won the KHL championship with a game seven victory over HC Lev Praha. In winning the team's first Gagarin Cup, Keenan became both the first North American coach to win a KHL championship and the first coach to win both the Gagarin Cup and the Stanley Cup.[12] On October 17, 2015, Keenan was fired by Magnitogorsk.

On March 16, 2017, Keenan was announced as the new head coach of HC Kunlun Red Star, the KHL's first Chinese based team.[13] After a disappointing start to the 2017–2018 season, Keenan was fired by Kunlun Red Star on December 3, 2017.[14]"

 

[The Panther]

If you look at the first 10 years of any NHL coach, and then include non-NHL coaching (minor Leagues, international, etc.) Mike Keenan is probably the most successful coach in history, or on par with Scotty Bowman, Toe Blake, etc.

But the latter half of his coaching career does drag him down a lot -- there was a lot of mediocrity. Still, his final two coaching seasons with Calgary had quite good results.

Keenan did burn a lot of bridges, through, and do a lot of bizarre things that turned some people off, including some people currently on the Hall of Fame committee.

 

[wetcoast]

I would personally have Daniel Alfredsson in before the Sedins. I think Alfie needs to get in, and now. The Sedins can wait. Actually, the more I look back at the Sedins' career, the less convinced I am they're Hall-worthy. I mean, don't get me wrong, they're going to get in because the media loves them (and they are very nice, classy guys), plus the "twins angle" can't be beaten. I don't think the Sedins did anything that Markus Naslund didn't do.

Luongo should get in this year. A very consistent, very impressive career. (Very Henrik Lundqvist-esque. If Luongo had played for the Rangers, they'd have retired his number by now.)

Zetterberg is another player the hockey media loves, and he will get in -- this year, probably, or next. His playoffs in '08, '09, and '10 were epic.

If they want an "overlooked" kind of guy from years past, then Mikhailov or Turgeon.

the over looked guy seems to be Patrick Elias really but I agree with everything else in this post and will defer to Dr No for goalies but Lou is getting in just like the Sedins.

 

[wetcoast]

too bad niclas bergfors didn’t pan out and (filip) forsberg never took the next step

i was hoping someday for a forsberg/bergfors class

I'm drunk but I see what you are doing here.

 

[NigerianNightmare]

Mike Keenan has been the best of both worlds (NHL, KHL, International Hockey). He deserves a spot in the Hall

 

[kaiser matias]

Same as Price and Fleury, but everyone's already cleaning off the red carpet for them.

It's telling when the only knock on Thomas is "he didnt play longer" which is to say if only Thomas had more mediocre seasons he'd be in, counterintuitive to what you'd think is needed to make the hall. He had 6 very good to great seasons: .917 in 06 on a terrible Bruins team and .921/.933/.915/.938/.920 from 08 to 12. GSAAs in those years of 18.8, 21.3, 41.0, 4.3, 45.8, 11.4

SV%

Thomas: 1,1,4,7
Price: 1,4,6,7,9
Fleury: 3,5,6,10

GAA

Thomas: 1,1
Price: 1,6,9
Fleury: 3,3,8,9

Point being, a Cup, Smythe and 2 Vezinas are nearly impossible to deny. He's got a unique career arc/story as the late bloomer (became a starter at 31) who became the best in the world, its pretty much the same as Kurt Warner in the NFL. He was bagging groceries and was an MVP a year later at 27, only had 6 good seasons but won a Superbowl, went to another and 2 MVPs

As others noted Thomas has the short career as a strike against him, and his off-ice political views are also going to be a strike against him, albeit an unofficial one. The Hall doesn't like to court controversy, and has a well-known history of holding things like that against potential inductees, so someone like Thomas is facing an uphill battle.

 

[Giotrapani91]

My 2022 class player category Henrik & Daniel sedin, Rod brindamour, Alexander mogilny & Jennifer botterill for the player inductees, now if brindamour or mogilny don’t make it in I have Theoren fleury, & Pierre turgeon as substitutes. & in the builder category, Jack Parker former coach of Boston university, & Walter gretzky.

 

[Voight]

I've never thought of Keenan as a Hall of Famer, but there are worse options.

Up to and including his first season coaching St. Louis, Keenan's career regular season coaching record, over ten seasons, was an absolutely stellar: 423 - 267 - 82. That included 4 Conference championships (with three franchises) and the '94 Stanley Cup.

Add on to that:
-- Jr. B championships in 1979 and 1980 (Oshawa)
-- AHL championship in 1983 (Rochester)
-- 1987 and 1991 Canada Cup championships
-- KHL championship 2014 (Magnitogorsk)

I don't see how he isn't a HOF (aside from his less than sterling rep). Currently he's at 672 NHL wins which is within the top 20 of all time (a lot of the guy ahead of him have coached a ton of games post-2005 so they get the advantage of overtime/shootout wins).

I can't see how you keep out a guy with 600+ wins, 2 "Gold Medals" (in a pure hockey sense) and a Stanley Cup.

At this point it is probably politics with Cherry. Not that I compare him to Pete Rose, but my guess is someday Pete Rose gets in with a different generation looking and saying "How is the all-time hits leader not in?" They wouldn't have been around when he got banned and don't have that grudge against him like the committee does today. Sort of how we think of Shoeless Joe Jackson today (although they still haven't put him in). But I think Rose will get in after he dies. It will be sort of a backhanded compliment because there is still some bad blood there. Sort of the same way he has never been allowed to work in MLB. I mean, come on, sure maybe don't have him manage, but have people ever heard Rose talk about baseball? He's a genius. There is no way I wouldn't want to have him as a hitting coach or at least an advisor on my team.

Anyway, Cherry has that same thing with him. He rubbed some of the Laurentian Elites the wrong way and I think when he dies he'll get in. Maybe because they don't want to give him the satisfaction over it? I don't know.

Keenan also has the two Canada Cups. Coaching one of the most famous teams in hockey history helps. Throw in three other Cup finals appearances outside of winning it all in 1994. That's a good career. They didn't call him Iron Mike for nothing. He was a hard-ass, but so was Scotty Bowman. I never understand why Keenan seems to get a lopsided reputation like this, compared to others who are similar.

Ironic now seeing sports leagues embracing gambling. Obviously what Rose did is a big no-no but the irony is still there.

 

[Big Phil]

I don't see how he isn't a HOF (aside from his less than sterling rep). Currently he's at 672 NHL wins which is within the top 20 of all time (a lot of the guy ahead of him have coached a ton of games post-2005 so they get the advantage of overtime/shootout wins).

I can't see how you keep out a guy with 600+ wins, 2 "Gold Medals" (in a pure hockey sense) and a Stanley Cup.

There is a lot of politics at times when it comes to the HHOF. If Keenan angered some of them on the panel then he would be hurt by this. Also, the "Hug a player/cry on my shoulder" preferred coach in today's NHL (not that I agree with that) paints Keenan in a bad light.

Ironic now seeing sports leagues embracing gambling. Obviously what Rose did is a big no-no but the irony is still there.

It really is bizarre, and it just seems like it started more or less in the last year, at least being flooded in commercials on TV. Plus, the intermission has Cabbie on the Street talking up with whoever that gambling guy is and they are encouraging fans to bet on the games, even within the game. I mean, really?

 

[frisco]

What about that the one selection that the HOF throws at us that:
1) No one is talking about.
2) Has no real business being in the Hall.
3) Selected to make it seem like the insiders know more than anyone else in hockey circles.
4) Was no better than the 6th best player on a really good team with at least one Cup.

I predicted Lowe last time. Carbonneau and Duff would also fit into this category in recent years. I'll say Brian Rafalski, John Tonelli, or Ken Hodge.

My Best-Carey

 

[Voight]

There is a lot of politics at times when it comes to the HHOF. If Keenan angered some of them on the panel then he would be hurt by this. Also, the "Hug a player/cry on my shoulder" preferred coach in today's NHL (not that I agree with that) paints Keenan in a bad light.



It really is bizarre, and it just seems like it started more or less in the last year, at least being flooded in commercials on TV. Plus, the intermission has Cabbie on the Street talking up with whoever that gambling guy is and they are encouraging fans to bet on the games, even within the game. I mean, really?

Yea, I always figure its the politics keeping him out. Hopefully one day he gets in.

 

[Kosher Halal]

01. Daniel Sedin
02. Henrik Sedin
03. Doug Jarvis
04. Butch Goring
05. Jennifer Botterill
06. John Muckler
07. Walter Gretzky

OR

01. Daniel Sedin
02. Henrik Sedin
03. Jeremy Roenick
04. Pierre Turgeon
05. Jennifer Botterill
06. Herb Carnegie
07. Bryan Murray

 

[Hockeyholic]

What about that the one selection that the HOF throws at us that:
1) No one is talking about.
2) Has no real business being in the Hall.
3) Selected to make it seem like the insiders know more than anyone else in hockey circles.
4) Was no better than the 6th best player on a really good team with at least one Cup.

I predicted Lowe last time. Carbonneau and Duff would also fit into this category in recent years. I'll say Brian Rafalski, John Tonelli, or Ken Hodge.

My Best-Carey

This is a good point.

Ummm, I'll say one of: Adam Graves, Gary Roberts, Bill Guerin, Or Kris Draper.

 

[Laphroaig]

If It was up to me J.C. Tremblay would be getting in along with Zetterberg, Firsov and Middleton.