Prospect Info: The 2021 NHL Entry Draft Thread

[Mortimer Snerd]

Parayko has had back issues this season. Before I'd spend a lot of assets to acquire and then extend, I'd want a clean bill of health. A back injury could be something that lingers, I don't know.

Especially with those very tall people.

 

[snowkiddin]

Yeah this is another reason why I think we couldn't get a deal done. I dont think we were even including our 1st round pick in any offers. Chevy likely wants to keep everyone and is hoping to use it to entice Seattle to take on some salary in exchange for it. Though I'm guessing we will have to send them a B level prospect as well. Especially if its Little they take.

I’d be pretty upset if we had to throw away our first on this expansion draft nonsense.

On the bright side, this should be the last time we have to deal with this crap. I’m expecting a team like Arizona will move to Houston, so no expansion there. With Bettman running the show it’s unlikely Quebec gets a team any time soon either.

 

[Adam da bomb]

OK, but I don't think we have a LHD better than Morrissey in house. That could change if Morrissey really has become as bad as many here seem to think. Or if Heinola just turns out to be good enough to push Morrissey down. So far, he can't even get his foot in the door.

I also don't think Heinola and Pionk would be a good pair.

And I don't see Pionk as the solution at 1RHD. If Heinola can push Morrissey down, great. But we would still need a 1RHD.

I think Pionk and Samberg could be a good 1st pairing the way Trouba and Mo were.
The idea Heinola can’t be better than mo is premature considering the coach. I also think contract issues is more of an issue than just not good enough.
It’s possible to run 3 2nd pairings if we can upgrade on poolman.
Samberg Pionk
Mo. Demelo
Heinola x
So to me Pionk is closer to a 1 than mo. If he’s not we don’t have a 1 on either side and we are even worse off than we thought.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Pionk and Samberg could be a good 1st pairing the way Trouba and Mo were.
The idea Heinola can’t be better than mo is premature considering the coach. I also think contract issues is more of an issue than just not good enough.
It’s possible to run 3 2nd pairings if we can upgrade on poolman.
Samberg Pionk
Mo. Demelo
Heinola x
So to me Pionk is closer to a 1 than mo. If he’s not we don’t have a 1 on either side and we are even worse off than we thought.

Speaking of premature - We don't even know that Samberg is going to make the NHL yet and you are putting him on the first pair.

Who said Heinola can't be better than JMo? Contract? Chevy is the contract guy and he is saying he wants to see Heinola play.

I don't see upgrading on Poolman as a priority, much less a necessity. Just get him on the 3rd pair where he belongs. But 3rd pair is not where our problem lies. I'm satisfied with Stanley - Poolman - if Mau would just play them together.

Pionk may be closer to a 1st pair d than Morrissey is, or not. Morrissey is the one playing 1st pair and he is doing it stapled to Poolman. I don't care which one has bragging rights. If we bring in a top pair LHD good enough to push Morrissey down, great. Pair him with Pionk and see if Pionk really is a 1st pair guy.

Or bring in a brand new top pair and play Morrissey - Pionk as our 2nd pair. Fine.

But it is the top pair that needs fixing. Neither Heinola nor Samberg have yet shown they can play in the top 4, much less the top 2. Fix the top pair and the other 2 pairs take care of themselves with what we have.

 

[jgimp]

Yeah this is another reason why I think we couldn't get a deal done. I dont think we were even including our 1st round pick in any offers. Chevy likely wants to keep everyone and is hoping to use it to entice Seattle to take on some salary in exchange for it. Though I'm guessing we will have to send them a B level prospect as well. Especially if its Little they take.

why would we be trading our 1st and/or Little? If he stays LTIR, doesn’t that help our cap situation? As of right now, we protect FeFe, Wheels, Apples, Connor, Copp (if he doesn’t get traded), Ehlers, PLD, JoMo, Pionk and Stanley leaving Berdin, DeMelo, Harkins ans BooLoo. I doubt they take DeMelo as there will be better Dmen available and none of the others are worth protecting with a 1st. Let them take one of the above, draft 32OA and move on unless we are using Copp and that 1st as a package for a T4 Dman. I don’t want a repeat of last XD where we miss out on a Suzuki!
I would trade Littles LTIR for an asset(s) to a cap struggling team like TBay and the Isles.
The Jets aren’t hurting for cap next year and very well may be one of the the best teams that has enough space to offer Hamilton big money.

 

[Daximus]

why would we be trading our 1st and/or Little? If he stays LTIR, doesn’t that help our cap situation? As of right now, we protect FeFe, Wheels, Apples, Connor, Copp (if he doesn’t get traded), Ehlers, PLD, JoMo, Pionk and Stanley leaving Berdin, DeMelo, Harkins ans BooLoo. I doubt they take DeMelo as there will be better Dmen available and none of the others are worth protecting with a 1st. Let them take one of the above, draft 32OA and move on unless we are using Copp and that 1st as a package for a T4 Dman. I don’t want a repeat of last XD where we miss out on a Suzuki!
I would trade Littles LTIR for an asset(s) to a cap struggling team like TBay and the Isles.
The Jets aren’t hurting for cap next year and very well may be one of the the best teams that has enough space to offer Hamilton big money.

At the end of the day we are still beholden to our owners. You think they are just going to take this season as a write off on their books. Make no mistake that paying Little to sit on the sidelines is likely not something they want to do. We only really need the cap for this season. Depending on who we resign.

 

[Adam da bomb]

At the end of the day we are still beholden to our owners. You think they are just going to take this season as a write off on their books. Make no mistake that paying Little to sit on the sidelines is likely not something they want to do. We only really need the cap for this season. Depending on who we resign.

And that kinda move reminds us we shouldn’t worry bout contending we should just be happy Winnipeg has a team.

 

[jgimp]

At the end of the day we are still beholden to our owners. You think they are just going to take this season as a write off on their books. Make no mistake that paying Little to sit on the sidelines is likely not something they want to do. We only really need the cap for this season. Depending on who we resign.

Isn’t insurance covering LTIR? It also enables us to use his salary as cap relief or to use it as trade fodder to a team with cap issues (see TBay) to give them relief. I agree we aren’t the GMs and Chevy will do what he thinks benefits the team, but the thought of using assets to protect Harkins, Berdin, DeMelo or BooLoo seems very odd and isn’t really necessary IMO.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Isn’t insurance covering LTIR? It also enables us to use his salary as cap relief or to use it as trade fodder to a team with cap issues (see TBay) to give them relief. I agree we aren’t the GMs and Chevy will do what he thinks benefits the team, but the thought of using assets to protect Harkins, Berdin, DeMelo or BooLoo seems very odd and isn’t really necessary IMO.

Chevy will also follow marching orders from his boss at the end of the day like we all do. It might not improve team but it’s what he has to do. But great point about insurance covering little.

 

[Daximus]

Isn’t insurance covering LTIR? It also enables us to use his salary as cap relief or to use it as trade fodder to a team with cap issues (see TBay) to give them relief. I agree we aren’t the GMs and Chevy will do what he thinks benefits the team, but the thought of using assets to protect Harkins, Berdin, DeMelo or BooLoo seems very odd and isn’t really necessary IMO.

They likely consider Harkins, Berdin and DeMelo far better assets than a mid 1st rounder in a shallow draft. We dont have to protect beaulieu, Seattle wont want him anyways.

 

[Daximus]

Chevy will also follow marching orders from his boss at the end of the day like we all do. It might not improve team but it’s what he has to do. But great point about insurance covering little.

Yeah if Littles entire cap hit is covered by insurance they may keep him around for the relief. But I dont think they want to lose more developed assets like Harkins, DeMelo or Berdin for a mid to late pick in a shallow draft. They probably want to keep those players as they align more with our current window then some kid who could be anywhere from 2-4+ years away if they develop well.

 

[jgimp]

They likely consider Harkins, Berdin and DeMelo far better assets than a mid 1st rounder in a shallow draft. We dont have to protect beaulieu, Seattle wont want him anyways.

Yeah if Littles entire cap hit is covered by insurance they may keep him around for the relief. But I dont think they want to lose more developed assets like Harkins, DeMelo or Berdin for a mid to late pick in a shallow draft. They probably want to keep those players as they align more with our current window then some kid who could be anywhere from 2-4+ years away if they develop well.

Did we not learn anything when we gave up Suzuki (that pick anyways) to protect Dano, Armia and whoever bottom 6 guys last time? Now I liked army and would love to get him back but we protected guys we traded and/or lost anyways! I remember how pissed everyone was at the time.
Keep status quo, expose Harkins, DeMelo, BooLoo, Berdin and keep our assets. We are a draft and develop team and we want to give up a 1st to protect Harkins? f***, Maurice won’t even play him! It doesn’t any make sense whatsoever.

 

[Whileee]

Did we not learn anything when we gave up Suzuki (that pick anyways) to protect Dano, Armia and whoever bottom 6 guys last time? Now I liked army and would love to get him back but we protected guys we traded and/or lost anyways! I remember how pissed everyone was at the time.
Keep status quo, expose Harkins, DeMelo, BooLoo, Berdin and keep our assets. We are a draft and develop team and we want to give up a 1st to protect Harkins? f***, Maurice won’t even play him! It doesn’t any make sense whatsoever.

For the 1000th time, they made that trade to protect Enstrom. Armia was on the Jets' protected list. Dano wasn't, but the Jets would have been fine if Vegas had taken Dano instead of the pick swap. But losing a top-4 D in a big contender season was something they wanted to avoid. If the Jets had protected 4 D, they would have lost one of Copp, Lowry, Perreault or Armia, not Dano.

I don't mind questioning whether protecting Enstrom as a top-4 D for the 2017/18 season was worth flipping the 1st, but it's really tiring to see the same rewriting of history again and again.

 

[jgimp]

For the 1000th time, they made that trade to protect Enstrom. Armia was on the Jets' protected list. Dano wasn't, but the Jets would have been fine if Vegas had taken Dano instead of the pick swap. But losing a top-4 D in a big contender season was something they wanted to avoid. If the Jets had protected 4 D, they would have lost one of Copp, Lowry, Perreault or Armia, not Dano.

I don't mind questioning whether protecting Enstrom as a top-4 D for the 2017/18 season was worth flipping the 1st, but it's really tiring to see the same rewriting of history again and again.

I forgot we had protected armia, but I think you understand the gist of what I was saying. I don’t think anyone of the ones I stated above are worth burning a 1st for. There are still going to be some very good players available when we pick. Losing Harkins really doesn’t set us back, Demelo isn’t Enstrom and I’m not entirely sure Berdin will be an NHL goaltender (although I really would love to see that maniac in the crease for the Jets).

 

[KingBogo]

For the 1000th time, they made that trade to protect Enstrom. Armia was on the Jets' protected list. Dano wasn't, but the Jets would have been fine if Vegas had taken Dano instead of the pick swap. But losing a top-4 D in a big contender season was something they wanted to avoid. If the Jets had protected 4 D, they would have lost one of Copp, Lowry, Perreault or Armia, not Dano.

I don't mind questioning whether protecting Enstrom as a top-4 D for the 2017/18 season was worth flipping the 1st, but it's really tiring to see the same rewriting of history again and again.

I've given up long ago trying to correct the record of what actually happened in the first ED. Too often no effort is ever made to be accurate to the actual facts, when just spouting s**** will do if it supports your narrative.

 

[jgimp]

I've given up long ago trying to correct the record of what actually happened in the first ED. Too often no effort is ever made to be accurate to the actual facts, when just spouting s**** will do if it supports your narrative.

The point I was trying to make was, is Harkins or Berdin worth wasting a 1st on to protect? To me the answer is no.
My memory is questionable on the best of days and trying to remember the ins and outs of an expansion draft 3 years ago is really asking to much of my waning memory. I do remember how pissed people were and the outright disdain of Chevy to maneuver the way he did to simply lose those players anyways. Whether I got the facts exactly right are moot to me and I would hope people would just see the point I am trying to make. Sorry if I pissed people off in the process, you should see what my wife puts up with...

 

[Adam da bomb]

The point I was trying to make was, is Harkins or Berdin worth wasting a 1st on to protect? To me the answer is no.
My memory is questionable on the best of days and trying to remember the ins and outs of an expansion draft 3 years ago is really asking to much of my waning memory. I do remember how pissed people were and the outright disdain of Chevy to maneuver the way he did to simply lose those players anyways. Whether I got the facts exactly right are moot to me and I would hope people would just see the point I am trying to make. Sorry if I pissed people off in the process, you should see what my wife puts up with...

Harkins may be worth a 1sr what are the chances a mid 1st makes the nhl. When? How many years from now?

 

[jgimp]

Harkins may be worth a 1sr what are the chances a mid 1st makes the nhl. When? How many years from now?

while I don’t necessarily disagree with your philosophy, we are a draft and develop team who need to develop players. We don’t have the luxury like TBay or California teams of luring big free agents and we need to draft as many players in the early rounds as possible rather than using that pick to protect a middling 6 player that PoMo refuses to play anyways. There will be lots of quality guys available when we pick (our first round scouting has been great) and I am more than fine taking that pick and risk losing a guy like Harkins or Berdin!

 

[Daximus]

Did we not learn anything when we gave up Suzuki (that pick anyways) to protect Dano, Armia and whoever bottom 6 guys last time? Now I liked army and would love to get him back but we protected guys we traded and/or lost anyways! I remember how pissed everyone was at the time.
Keep status quo, expose Harkins, DeMelo, BooLoo, Berdin and keep our assets. We are a draft and develop team and we want to give up a 1st to protect Harkins? f***, Maurice won’t even play him! It doesn’t any make sense whatsoever.

I'm not saying I like it. I was vehemently against it the last time we did it. Though I was high on Suzuki and Valimaki and wanted both of them badly. I'm just saying it's likely what will happen.

But to play devils advocate for a second, is that 1st round pick 100% guaranteed to be a better player than Berdin? Because that's who Seattle will likely take.

I mean we for sure protect Wheeler (have to), Scheif, Ehlers, Connor, Dubois for forwards. And Morrissey, Pionk for D and Helle for G.

That's 5F/2D/1G. That leaves either 2F/1D in a 7/3/1 or 1 extra skater in a 8/1 scenario. Logic dictates that we protect 7/3/1 as that let's us keep more players. So we add Copp and Appleton at F. On the backend we have to make a choice between DeMelo and Stanley. DeMelo is the premium position, a position we are weak at and currently better. Stanley is on the right track but at a position of strength (Heinola/Samberg likely surpass him before long)

So we have some combo of Harkins, Stanley/DeMelo, Berdin available. Seattle could go 2 ways, they could go the Vegas route and try to be competitive fast or they could look to build from the ground up with a boatload of futures. If they go competitive fast then DeMelo seems like a prime target and we are once again on the hunt for more RHD, a position we are already on the hunt for. Futures wise Harkins, Stanley and Berdin all seem like good pieces to develop. My gut tells me they will be chocked full of forwards and D to develop but a potential journeyman goalie is not easy to come by. And Berdin is at the prime age where you don't need to invest 5+years into development.

I don't think the Jets will want to risk that for a 50/50 chance at maybe getting a player thats half as good as any of them currently are.

 

[Daximus]

while I don’t necessarily disagree with your philosophy, we are a draft and develop team who need to develop players. We don’t have the luxury like TBay or California teams of luring big free agents and we need to draft as many players in the early rounds as possible rather than using that pick to protect a middling 6 player that PoMo refuses to play anyways. There will be lots of quality guys available when we pick (our first round scouting has been great) and I am more than fine taking that pick and risk losing a guy like Harkins or Berdin!

Players developed by Tbay:

Stamkos, Kucherov, Point, Palat, Gourde, Killorn, Johnson, Cirelli, Stephens, Joseph, Ross, Hedman, Cernak, Vasilevskiy. Make no mistake Tampa is just as much of a draft and develop team as we are. Most of the guys they acquire are done through trades. Sergachev, Coleman, Goodrow, Rutta,

Only players they have signed are Maroon and McElhinney.

It's a pretty big gamble that you get anyone even close to Harkins or Berdin from where we are likely picking. You might luck out and get someone of the same calibre.

 

[Daximus]

For the 1000th time, they made that trade to protect Enstrom. Armia was on the Jets' protected list. Dano wasn't, but the Jets would have been fine if Vegas had taken Dano instead of the pick swap. But losing a top-4 D in a big contender season was something they wanted to avoid. If the Jets had protected 4 D, they would have lost one of Copp, Lowry, Perreault or Armia, not Dano.

I don't mind questioning whether protecting Enstrom as a top-4 D for the 2017/18 season was worth flipping the 1st, but it's really tiring to see the same rewriting of history again and again.

For the record I was against it at the time, I am still against it and I will always be against it. IMO Chevy's biggest mistake as GM of this team to date.

 

[10Ducky10]

We need two forwards that meet the requirements, who is the other one? Has Harkins met his requirements yet?

 

[Adam da bomb]

I'm not saying I like it. I was vehemently against it the last time we did it. Though I was high on Suzuki and Valimaki and wanted both of them badly. I'm just saying it's likely what will happen.

But to play devils advocate for a second, is that 1st round pick 100% guaranteed to be a better player than Berdin? Because that's who Seattle will likely take.

I mean we for sure protect Wheeler (have to), Scheif, Ehlers, Connor, Dubois for forwards. And Morrissey, Pionk for D and Helle for G.

That's 5F/2D/1G. That leaves either 2F/1D in a 7/3/1 or 1 extra skater in a 8/1 scenario. Logic dictates that we protect 7/3/1 as that let's us keep more players. So we add Copp and Appleton at F. On the backend we have to make a choice between DeMelo and Stanley. DeMelo is the premium position, a position we are weak at and currently better. Stanley is on the right track but at a position of strength (Heinola/Samberg likely surpass him before long)

So we have some combo of Harkins, Stanley/DeMelo, Berdin available. Seattle could go 2 ways, they could go the Vegas route and try to be competitive fast or they could look to build from the ground up with a boatload of futures. If they go competitive fast then DeMelo seems like a prime target and we are once again on the hunt for more RHD, a position we are already on the hunt for. Futures wise Harkins, Stanley and Berdin all seem like good pieces to develop. My gut tells me they will be chocked full of forwards and D to develop but a potential journeyman goalie is not easy to come by. And Berdin is at the prime age where you don't need to invest 5+years into development.

I don't think the Jets will want to risk that for a 50/50 chance at maybe getting a player thats half as good as any of them currently are.

If it’s berdin its even better for jets. As it’s always easy to get a back up. We have Holm, broissot. Harkins is needed to replace copp.

 

[WolfHouse]

If it’s berdin its even better for jets. As it’s always easy to get a back up. We have Holm, broissot. Harkins is needed to replace copp.

If you're resigned to losing him, why not just get him an offer and leave him unprotected?

 

[Daximus]

If it’s berdin its even better for jets. As it’s always easy to get a back up. We have Holm, broissot. Harkins is needed to replace copp.

Berdin is developing well and should be a solid journeyman backup that will come cheap. Brossoit has proven he can post good numbers. He won't continue to take discounts to play 2nd fiddle forever. If you were in his position would you take a discount to play backup or try and go out and earn your stripes where you actually have a chance to earn the crease? Holm is nice but he hasn't proven a thing on NA ice yet and is likely a few development years away from doing so.