Prospect Info: The 2021 NHL Entry Draft Thread

[Bob E]

I’ve wondered about Cossa myself. How much outrage would there be on this board though if Cossa was selected by the Jets with say Ceulemans or a falling skilled forward still on the board? Could be interesting.

I’m not sure any d or f would be as good a prospect as Stanley or Vesa was when they were picked.

Cossa could work out much better.

 

[Daximus]

We would have to throw in something on top of Copp to both get a top 4 LHD from Seattle and dump Beaulieu on them. A lot more I imagine.

They'll have a pretty big surplus of LHD and be pretty light on C's. They'll be begging us for Copp.

 

[Daximus]

I really like this!! Getting both Ceulemans and Morrow would be a coup in my opinion. I’m very intrigued by Morrow’s skill set even though he’s a work in progress. Just have a feeling the Jets might be high on him!

I think Morrow will go late 1st round, likely to a team with multiple picks. I could see Detroit, Minny and NJ all taking a stab at him late 1st.

 

[Daximus]

I’m not sure any d or f would be as good a prospect as Stanley or Vesa was when they were picked.

Cossa could work out much better.

I was never very high on either of Stanley or Vesa when they were picked. They both seemed like picks with limited upside at the time. Stanley is a competent 6/7 right now and could potentially get even better, Vesa is a depth winger who is likely looking to break into a bottom 6 role next year. I'd project Ceulemans as having higher upside than Stanley, though lower floor. Someone like Sillinger is a better overall player than Vesa but has his warts as well and could just as easily bust as Vesa still can.

Cossa is in that weird range where he is a damn good goalie but it's hard to predict where he could end up 3/4 years down the road. I love his upside but I think we have more pressing needs right now.

 

[Bob E]

I was never very high on either of Stanley or Vesa when they were picked. They both seemed like picks with limited upside at the time. Stanley is a competent 6/7 right now and could potentially get even better, Vesa is a depth winger who is likely looking to break into a bottom 6 role next year. I'd project Ceulemans as having higher upside than Stanley, though lower floor. Someone like Sillinger is a better overall player than Vesa but has his warts as well and could just as easily bust as Vesa still can.

Cossa is in that weird range where he is a damn good goalie but it's hard to predict where he could end up 3/4 years down the road. I love his upside but I think we have more pressing needs right now.

But we may need a tender in 3/4 yrs, and grooming one internally has its benefits. I’m not sold on Berdin being a quality NHL goaltender and that leaves Holm. Not much else at this point.

 

[Bob E]

Ceulemans seems to be a player will all the tools, but may not have the toolbox. Hard to tell based on competition he played against.

I also think Sillinger will be picked before 17.

 

[Daximus]

But we may need a tender in 3/4 yrs, and grooming one internally has its benefits. I’m not sold on Berdin being a quality NHL goaltender and that leaves Holm. Not much else at this point.

Good goalies like Helle usually have some good years left well into their 30's I'd be okay with giving Helle another contract to run out his career here and then transition to someone knew during that time.

 

[Bob E]

Good goalies like Helle usually have some good years left well into their 30's I'd be okay with giving Helle another contract to run out his career here and then transition to someone knew during that time.

If Helle resigns then absolutely. If he wants to move on, we don’t currently have much of a backup plan internally.

 

[Daximus]

If Helle resigns then absolutely. If he wants to move on, we don’t currently have much of a backup plan internally.

Yeah it is looking sparse but I think we have time to address that need. I think Helle likes it here and will likely stay.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

They'll have a pretty big surplus of LHD and be pretty light on C's. They'll be begging us for Copp.

Maybe so.
But getting them to steer clear of DeMelo & Stanley and also taking on a bad player in Boo Boo is goig to cost someone.

We're not the only team looking for D.
They can trade with who they like.
I would love for us to get some type of bargain deal but it seems unlikely.

 

[Daximus]

Maybe so.
But getting them to steer clear of DeMelo & Stanley and also taking on a bad player in Boo Boo is goig to cost someone.

We're not the only team looking for D.
They can trade with who they like.
I would love for us to get some type of bargain deal but it seems unlikely.

They'll be so light on C's but also RHD's so I think it will come down to who they value more. Copp or DeMelo. Copp is probably a better long term piece for them if he is willing to sign there. Good chance he's a top 6 C for them if he wants to be. DeMelo is a likely top 4 RHD for them.

I think they'd definitely be willing to take on Beauleau from us if we offer up Copp for one of the D they get.

 

[ps241]

I know Pronman put up his list and I was on a thread and stumbled on this post:

“I always see Pronman posted around here, so I was curious to see how his predictions have held up. I looked at the 2017 draft, since we're nearing 5 years out, so we have a good idea what these players will become.

His top 10:
1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Tippet
4. Tolvanen
5. Kostin
6. Vilardi
7. Liljegrin
8. Necas
9. Glass
10. Yamamoto

Notable:
13. Makar
16. Heiskanen
18. Pettersson”

End quote.

Ok it is what it is and having public lists recorded is probably humbling but holy hell Cory!! I take Pronman’s lists with a large grain of salt.

 

[Jetsetter]

I pulled this data from YouTuber Graviteh
Best Prospects Lists/Rank Trade Rumors & Aatu Räty / Brandt Clarke / Dylan Guenther / Luke Hughes / William Eklund / Owen Power / Carson Lambos / Chaz Lucius / Jesper Wallstedt / Fabian Lysell / Kent Johnson / Mason McTavish / Sebastian Cossa / Logan Stankoven / Simon Robertsson / William Eklund / Simon Edvinsson / Matthew Beniers / Zachary L'Heureux / Nikita Chibrikov / Cole Sillinger / Fyodor Svechkov / Sasha Pastujov / Samu Tuomaala / Xavier Bourgault

So Dman or centre? Or BPA excluding Goalies? Who will be better in 3 years - LHD Carson Lambos or RHD Corson Ceulemans? Is our need at RHD more important than BPA? I like
Corson Ceulemans but was Lambos hurt most of the season?

 

[Jetsetter]

Sign Copp before the draft long term or trade him for a late 1st. He'd be ideal from the Bruins, Predators

 

[WolfHouse]

Sign Copp before the draft long term or trade him for a late 1st. He'd be ideal from the Bruins, Predators

Just seems like a real shame not to sign Copp - he’s a real draft and develop Jet

 

[Whileee]

I know Pronman put up his list and I was on a thread and stumbled on this post:

“I always see Pronman posted around here, so I was curious to see how his predictions have held up. I looked at the 2017 draft, since we're nearing 5 years out, so we have a good idea what these players will become.

His top 10:
1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Tippet
4. Tolvanen
5. Kostin
6. Vilardi
7. Liljegrin
8. Necas
9. Glass
10. Yamamoto

Notable:
13. Makar
16. Heiskanen
18. Pettersson”

End quote.

Ok it is what it is and having public lists recorded is probably humbling but holy hell Cory!! I take Pronman’s lists with a large grain of salt.

No doubt. A lot of draft pundits like to ridicule NHL draft performance, but seldom comment on their own performance. It would be interesting to go back and systematically review various draft pundit performances over time, to see how they stack up.

Also, though many claimed to be all about the data, I would note that many don't follow it very well. As an example, the latest rankings from Elite Prospects have a number of players ranked highly, even though their production has been very modest compared to players ranked later. They use a lot of other subjective criteria, looking at tools, etc.

 

[surixon]

I know Pronman put up his list and I was on a thread and stumbled on this post:

“I always see Pronman posted around here, so I was curious to see how his predictions have held up. I looked at the 2017 draft, since we're nearing 5 years out, so we have a good idea what these players will become.

His top 10:
1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Tippet
4. Tolvanen
5. Kostin
6. Vilardi
7. Liljegrin
8. Necas
9. Glass
10. Yamamoto

Notable:
13. Makar
16. Heiskanen
18. Pettersson”

End quote.

Ok it is what it is and having public lists recorded is probably humbling but holy hell Cory!! I take Pronman’s lists with a large grain of salt.

Yeah he's not batting very well. I've never really cared for his lists. I don't see eye to eye in how he grades. Him continually having Hienola as a below average skater despite the clear improvement was probably the last straw for me.

I think almost every Jet first round draft prospect has significantly outperformed his view on them.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

No doubt. A lot of draft pundits like to ridicule NHL draft performance, but seldom comment on their own performance. It would be interesting to go back and systematically review various draft pundit performances over time, to see how they stack up.

This is something I've hoped someone would do for years.

I look forward to your report. No rush, whenever you have some time. Next week will be fine.

 

[Flair Hay]

Just seems like a real shame not to sign Copp - he’s a real draft and develop Jet

Very true. I'm cool with moving on if the only choices are overpaying badly or losing him for nothing in a year. But any reasonable deal and he is worth keeping here. Versatile players like him are not as easy to find as we think.

We have the space, his trade value isn't that high a year from UFA, we need even more players like him than we have... hopefully both sides can come to an agreement.

 

[Daximus]

No doubt. A lot of draft pundits like to ridicule NHL draft performance, but seldom comment on their own performance. It would be interesting to go back and systematically review various draft pundit performances over time, to see how they stack up.

Also, though many claimed to be all about the data, I would note that many don't follow it very well. As an example, the latest rankings from Elite Prospects have a number of players ranked highly, even though their production has been very modest compared to players ranked later. They use a lot of other subjective criteria, looking at tools, etc.

Scouching goes pretty heavily into analytics if you want to see a list made primarily by tracking methods.

 

[Daximus]

I know Pronman put up his list and I was on a thread and stumbled on this post:

“I always see Pronman posted around here, so I was curious to see how his predictions have held up. I looked at the 2017 draft, since we're nearing 5 years out, so we have a good idea what these players will become.

His top 10:
1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Tippet
4. Tolvanen
5. Kostin
6. Vilardi
7. Liljegrin
8. Necas
9. Glass
10. Yamamoto

Notable:
13. Makar
16. Heiskanen
18. Pettersson”

End quote.

Ok it is what it is and having public lists recorded is probably humbling but holy hell Cory!! I take Pronman’s lists with a large grain of salt.

What's really funny about this is I think he's just trying to outsmart everyone and then point to his list and say see I had this guy at 5! How smart am I!?

 

[surixon]

Scouching goes pretty heavily into analytics if you want to see a list made primarily by tracking methods.

I love watching his videos. I also like that he also trys to put context behind the numbers.

 

[Daximus]

I love watching his videos. I also like that he also trys to put context behind the numbers.

Yeah his live videos are a good look at his numbers and his list. Hes a lot higher on Beniers and Lysell than I am due to numbers. I have reservations about their ceiling myself. But they are certainly decent players.

 

[Whileee]

Scouching goes pretty heavily into analytics if you want to see a list made primarily by tracking methods.

I follow some of his stuff, but as an example he basically downplayed Svechkov's really poor metrics based on his team being bad.

I guess what I'm seeing more and more is that a lot of the draft pundits that tend to talk a lot about data seem to be selective, and have a tendency to downplay players based on physical profile, without great rationale. The amount of "skating analysis" is also getting a bit over the top in some reviews.

 

[Daximus]

I follow some of his stuff, but as an example he basically downplayed Svechkov's really poor metrics based on his team being bad.

I guess what I'm seeing more and more is that a lot of the draft pundits that tend to talk a lot about data seem to be selective, and have a tendency to downplay players based on physical profile, without great rationale. The amount of "skating analysis" is also getting a bit over the top in some reviews.

It does make some sense though. Guys playing on Michigan or Chicago Steel this year are likely to have wicked metrics compared to someone that plays for weaker teams. That's where you have to rely on what your actually seeing compared to the numbers. The numbers paint a picture but it's up the observer to tell what they mean.