Prospect Info: The 2015 NHL Draft Thread VII

[Tretyak 20]

No way should we draft a forward who was sub a PPG at #6. Not saying Zacha won't become a good player a la Johansen, however I think it's difficult to take that risk at #6.

He might have had difficulty adjusting to NA ice, and might have been hampered by injuries. Or he might just not be that good. I wouldn't mind finding out at 15-20. But not #6.

No way we should be drafting a guy who's stat line is identical to a former 27th overall pick at 6.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

No way we should be drafting a guy who's stat line is identical to a former 27th overall pick at 6.

Because Gomez would totally go 27th in a '98 redraft...

He was an all-star and was picked after gems like Rico Fata, Mike Rupp, and Scott Parker.

 

[MichaelJ]

Well, that's a pretty flimsy way to campaign for Zacha.

People are so ready to poke holes in Barzal's production ("But, but, but...goals!") and yet in the same breath make a litany of excuses for Zacha's lack of numbers. That in and of itself is a strike against Zacha. Too many questions for a top 10 pick, especially in our current position.

Utter nonsense. He's being penalized for having an injury plagued season in his transition year. If the same happened to the others they'd drop based on the current reasoning here and other teams would've gained the rewards.

Zacha is a top 5 talent in a deep draft. We should consider ourselves lucky if he drops to us.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Utter nonsense. He's being penalized for having an injury plagued season in his transition year. If the same happened to the others they'd drop based on the current reasoning here and other teams would've gained the rewards.

Zacha is a top 5 talent in a deep draft. We should consider ourselves lucky if he drops to us.

Oh, it's just injuries now? Not new to NA, putting together all his "tools", and his ice cream cone melting too fast the first week he was with his host family?

He's being penalized because there's a bevy of unanswered questions with his game that he doesn't have the numbers to wish away. Tools are great, but you don't take a flyer on tools with the 6th pick and our forward prospect pool. People are looking for reasons why both his and Barzal's production don't "matter", but for two completely different reasons.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Because Gomez would totally go 27th in a '98 redraft...

He was an all-star and was picked after gems like Rico Fata, Mike Rupp, and Scott Parker.

Rookie of the year as well.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Because Gomez would totally go 27th in a '98 redraft...

He was an all-star and was picked after gems like Rico Fata, Mike Rupp, and Scott Parker.

Unless you have a time machine and can look ahead 23 years, redrafts are totally irrelevant.

 

[NJDevs26]

Central Scouting Final Rankings:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=761663&navid=DL|NJD|home

Interesting that everyone's 'fave' Crouse is above Marner. And Hanifin is still third.

EDIT: Guess that's over a month old though...the Devils' Twitter really needs to get more current with stuff

 

[Billdo]

Provorov, Werenski, Zacha, AND Meier above Barzal? No way.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Provorov, Werenski, Zacha, AND Meier above Barzal? No way.

Why no way? If people paid attention they'd see a lot of the reputable services have him in the 9 to 11 range.

 

[Tretyak 20]

He's being penalized because there's a bevy of unanswered questions with his game that he doesn't have the numbers to wish away. Tools are great, but you don't take a flyer on tools with the 6th pick and our forward prospect pool. People are looking for reasons why both his and Barzal's production don't "matter", but for two completely different reasons.

This is just not true - at least not true of actual scouts. Zacha has been heavily scouted for at least the last three years. He isn't a "flyer" at all, and his game is pretty well understood.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Unless you have a time machine and can look ahead 23 years, redrafts are totally irrelevant.

What? Your post said that we shouldn't take a guy with an identical stat line to Gomez, who went 27th, with the 6th pick. Where Gomez would actually have gone based on his play is completely relevant. Probably somewhere around 6th, right?

 

[Emperoreddy]

NJDevs pointed it out. Our multimedia team is out of date. Those rankings are nearly two months old. Nothing new.

Plus it is central scouting...

 

[Devils Dominion]

I would not be too happy with this draft.
Rantanen and Yan have high bust potential plus too many defensemen.
Devils mock courtesy of Draftsite.com

1 6 Mikko Rantanen RW TPS Turku (SM-liiga) 6' 3.75" 195
2 36 Dennis Yan LW Shawinigan (QMJHL) 6' 2" 192
2 41 Brandon Carlo D Tri-City (WHL) 6' 5" 185
3 67 Sami Niku D JYP Jyvaskyla (SM-liiga) 6' 1" 176
4 97 Nikita Pavlychev C Des Moines (USHL) 6' 6" 206
5 140 Lukas Jasek RW Trinec (Czech) 5' 11.75" 172
6 157 Grant Gabriele D US-Under-17 (USAH-NTDP) 6' 2" 170
7 206 Michael Lackey G US-Under-17 (USAH-NTDP) 6' 2" 205

 

[Brodeur]

Central Scouting Final Rankings:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=761663&navid=DL|NJD|home

Interesting that everyone's 'fave' Crouse is above Marner. And Hanifin is still third.

EDIT: Guess that's over a month old though...the Devils' Twitter really needs to get more current with stuff

Provorov, Werenski, Zacha, AND Meier above Barzal? No way.

Central has the disadvantage of publishing their list in early April before the U18 tourney begins. Barzal seemed to boost his stock in that tournament. I could understand if somebody wanted Werenski before Barzal. It's easy to take for granted that Werenski (and Hanifin) accelerated their studies in order to enter college a year early. Werenski has some work to do on the defensive side, but he was tremendous offensively as a 17 year old.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I would not be too happy with this draft.
Rantanen and Yan have high bust potential plus too many defensemen.
Devils mock courtesy of Draftsite.com

1 6 Mikko Rantanen RW TPS Turku (SM-liiga) 6' 3.75" 195
2 36 Dennis Yan LW Shawinigan (QMJHL) 6' 2" 192
2 41 Brandon Carlo D Tri-City (WHL) 6' 5" 185
3 67 Sami Niku D JYP Jyvaskyla (SM-liiga) 6' 1" 176
4 97 Nikita Pavlychev C Des Moines (USHL) 6' 6" 206
5 140 Lukas Jasek RW Trinec (Czech) 5' 11.75" 172
6 157 Grant Gabriele D US-Under-17 (USAH-NTDP) 6' 2" 170
7 206 Michael Lackey G US-Under-17 (USAH-NTDP) 6' 2" 205

Not getting into this, yet again. They all have question marks (Barzal, Zacha, and Rantanen) whether you want to believe it or not they can all bust. At least say it as your opinion, not a fact, that Rantanen has the highest bust potential. Because I think Zacha does personally, but I'd still be happy with him at 6.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Central has the disadvantage of publishing their list in early April before the U18 tourney begins. Barzal seemed to boost his stock in that tournament. I could understand if somebody wanted Werenski before Barzal. It's easy to take for granted that Werenski (and Hanifin) accelerated their studies in order to enter college a year early. Werenski has some work to do on the defensive side, but he was tremendous offensively as a 17 year old.

Do you agree that Conte has relied too heavily on CSS?

 

[Tretyak 20]

What? Your post said that we shouldn't take a guy with an identical stat line to Gomez, who went 27th, with the 6th pick. Where Gomez would actually have gone based on his play is completely relevant. Probably somewhere around 6th, right?

Gomez's stat line from his draft year in the same league. He played WHL and put up near identical stats to Barzal.

 

[Brodeur]

Do you agree that Conte has relied too heavily on CSS?

I don't think NHL teams rely on Central. Gare Joyce has a good passage in his book where he got to be a "scout" for the 2007 Draft. He said that NHL teams tend to disregard Central's rankings after the midterm. Teams will look at the earlier lists to see if there was somebody that they might have missed.

Teams generally respect the job that Central does, but relatively speaking they don't have the same resources or experience as the scouts on NHL clubs. Joyce mentions that Central's final ranking along the lines of "it's something more for the fans than anything that teams actually take into consideration."

As I understand it, a lot of guys cut their teeth with Central then move onto NHL jobs when they have more experience.

In the last thread, there was a poster who said he has/had a friend who worked for ISS. Allegedly, the guy said that 29 out of 30 teams subscribed to their work. The team that didn't was the Devils. If the Devils don't take ISS into consideration, I wouldn't expect that Central would have any correlation to our board either.

The reason we link old Central rankings when things like "Hoeffel/Simmonds" is brought up is that they're aren't many available archived rankings. If anything it's just the only option to show a snapshot of how things kinda looked at the time. You seem to get caught up on the times where the picks happened to correlate with Central. Many others years they haven't.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Scott Gomez was a legit 1st line center for many years.

he had seasons of 70, 63, 70, 84, 60, 70, 58, and 59 points in his career

youre telling me you wouldnt take that from our draft pick?

 

[MichaelJ]

Oh, it's just injuries now? Not new to NA, putting together all his "tools", and his ice cream cone melting too fast the first week he was with his host family?

He's being penalized because there's a bevy of unanswered questions with his game that he doesn't have the numbers to wish away. Tools are great, but you don't take a flyer on tools with the 6th pick and our forward prospect pool. People are looking for reasons why both his and Barzal's production don't "matter", but for two completely different reasons.

That's right, he doesn't have the numbers for a number of reasons including the fact he played in too few games to make a judgment. The numbers in 30+ games mean nothing to me in this case.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Gomez's stat line from his draft year in the same league. He played WHL and put up near identical stats to Barzal.

I don't understand your angle here. Gomez was a home run pick. Sounds like you're rooting for Barzal but arguing the opposite?

 

[MichaelJ]

Not getting into this, yet again. They all have question marks (Barzal, Zacha, and Rantanen) whether you want to believe it or not they can all bust. At least say it as your opinion, not a fact, that Rantanen has the highest bust potential. Because I think Zacha does personally, but I'd still be happy with him at 6.

Zacha and Yan would be worth taking a chance on. I'd like to see another forward in there, preferably a C or RW instead of Carlo.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Scott Gomez was a legit 1st line center for many years.

he had seasons of 70, 63, 70, 84, 60, 70, 58, and 59 points in his career

youre telling me you wouldnt take that from our draft pick?

Not sure what's so hard to understand here. You simply cannot project Gomez's NHL career unto Barzal. However , you can look at the fact that Barzal has a stat line virtually identical to a player from the same league who was picked 27th.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Zacha and Yan would be worth taking a chance on. I'd like to see another forward in there, preferably a C or RW instead of Carlo.

Agreed, I wouldn't be disappointed with those guys with our first 2 picks. But definitely use the 41st pick on a forward again, we can still land a much needed quality forward with that pick.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Not sure what's so hard to understand here. You simply cannot project Gomez's NHL career unto Barzal. However , you can look at the fact that Barzal has a stat line virtually identical to a player from the same league who was picked 27th.

no, YOU are missing the point

and Gomez being picked 27th was a HOME RUN pick for us. do you think he'd go there again in a re-draft?

Gomez's production in his career was that of a 1st line center for a lot of years. thats what you are looking for from your top 10 pick. it doesnt matter where he was picked originally.