The 10 best listed players are ... You can vote for 10.

[Golden_Jet]

I would go out on a limb and say that at this point 95%+ of users on this site did not see any of the 1970s NHL.

A few did, for sure. But most of these votes are just going to be based on what they have heard or just biased towards the recent players entirely.

Disagree

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Disagree

I'm actually curious now. I made a poll

 

[blundluntman]

Roy in 1986 15-5 1.93 GA .923 save% with 1 SO he faced 504 shots
Roy in 1993 16-4 2.13 GA .929 Save% with 0 SO he faced 647 shots and added an assist

Brodeur in 1995 16-4 1.67 GA .928 Save% with 3 SO and faced 463 shots and added 1 assist
Brodeur in 2000 16-7 1.61 GA .927 Save % with 2 SO and faced 537 shots
Brodeur in 2003 16-8 1.65 GA .934 Save% with 7 SO and faced 622 shots and added 1 assist

You don't think these are comparable?

If you look at the raw numbers they seem comparable, but adjusting for era, things start to look differently. 93 and 86 are actually around .943 and .937 (89 is at .936).

Now to be fair, Brodeur's 95 season is also a masterclass and actually stands at the top of the list at .944 (2000 and 2003 see a pretty significant dropoff though). I have to give Brodeur credit, I honestly didn't realize 95 was that good statistically. At the same time though, Roy did more with less and has 3 seasons in the top 10 that all came during his time in MTL, a team that wasn't the defensive juggernaut NJ was during Brodeur's time.

Top Thirty Playoffs – minimum 1,000 minutes

* updated for 2022

Goalie	Cup?	Smythe?	Year	Team	Minutes	Shots	Saves	Sv%
Martin Brodeur	Yes		1995​	NJD	1,222	475	448	94.4%​
Patrick Roy*	Yes	Yes	1993​	MTL	1,293	611	577	94.3%​
Pelle Lindbergh			1985​	PHI	1,008	468	441	94.3%​
Ed Belfour*			1995​	CHI	1,014	491	462	93.9%​
Patrick Roy*	Yes	Yes	1986​	MTL	1,218	489	458	93.7%​
Jean-Sebastien Giguere		Yes	2003​	MDA	1,407	760	711	93.6%​
Patrick Roy*			1989​	MTL	1,206	521	488	93.6%​
Reggie Lemelin			1988​	BOS	1,027	442	414	93.5%​
Olaf Kolzig			1998​	WSH	1,351	770	720	93.5%​
John Vanbiesbrouck			1996​	FLA	1,332	720	672	93.4%​
Tim Thomas	Yes	Yes	2011​	BOS	1,542	789	736	93.3%​
Jonathan Quick	Yes	Yes	2012​	LAK	1,238	546	509	93.2%​
Dominik Hasek			1999​	BUF	1,217	616	574	93.2%​
Tom Barrasso	Yes		1991​	PIT	1,175	600	559	93.2%​
Bill Ranford	Yes	Yes	1990​	EDM	1,401	676	629	93.2%​
Patrick Roy*	Yes	Yes	2001​	COL	1,451	693	645	93.0%​
Mike Smith			2012​	PHX	1,027	611	568	93.0%​
Dwayne Roloson			2006​	EDM	1,160	625	581	92.9%​
Sean Burke			1988​	NJD	1,001	530	492	92.9%​
Kirk McLean			1994​	VAN	1,544	813	755	92.8%​
Martin Brodeur			1994​	NJD	1,171	526	488	92.7%​
Andy Moog			1990​	BOS	1,195	489	453	92.7%​
Arturs Irbe			2002​	CAR	1,078	511	474	92.7%​
Marc-Andre Fleury			2008​	PIT	1,251	603	559	92.6%​
Andrei Vasilevskiy	Yes	Yes	2021​	TBL	1,390	663	614	92.6%​
Tuukka Rask			2019​	BOS	1,459	699	647	92.5%​
Tuukka Rask			2013​	BOS	1,466	724	669	92.4%​
Igor Shesterkin			2022​	NYR	1,182	628	580	92.4%​
Alain Chevrier			1989​	CHI	1,013	478	441	92.3%​
Ed Belfour*	Yes		1999​	DAL	1,544	648	597	92.3%​

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'm actually curious now. I made a poll

I think the poll will show more than 5% or less, but am curious to see numbers.
Wonder if it’s been done before.

 

[toddkaz]

If I was starting a team I would take Forsberg over Patrick Roy.

 

[dgibb10]

If you look at the raw numbers they seem comparable, but adjusting for era, things start to look differently. 93 and 86 are actually around .943 and .937 (89 is at .936).

Now to be fair, Brodeur's 95 season is also a masterclass and actually stands at the top of the list at .944 (2000 and 2003 see a pretty significant dropoff though). I have to give Brodeur credit, I honestly didn't realize 95 was that good statistically. At the same time though, Roy did more with less and has 3 seasons in the top 10 that all came during his time in MTL, a team that wasn't the defensive juggernaut NJ was during Brodeur's time.

Lmao at that.

MTL was 4th in goals against the year before roy got there, and had consistently multiple top selke candidates, including a guy who literally made the HOF based on his defense alone in Carbonneau, and multiple norris candidate HOFers in Chellios and Robinson. Let's cut the crap about those MTL teams.

They had Brian Hayward getting vezina votes right alongside Roy.

Lets cut the bullshit.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

If you look at the raw numbers they seem comparable, but adjusting for era, things start to look differently. 93 and 86 are actually around .943 and .937 (89 is at .936).

Now to be fair, Brodeur's 95 season is also a masterclass and actually stands at the top of the list at .944 (2000 and 2003 see a pretty significant dropoff though). I have to give Brodeur credit, I honestly didn't realize 95 was that good statistically. At the same time though, Roy did more with less and has 3 seasons in the top 10 that all came during his time in MTL, a team that wasn't the defensive juggernaut NJ was during Brodeur's time.

This is a common argument that I see but in Montreal Roy had Larry Robinson leading the D and 2 o the best defensive forwards ever to play the game in Bob Gainey and Guy Carbanneu.
While Brodeur may have the edge in overall roster, people make it seem like it was Roy all by himself and Brodeur had a stacked roster.

I'm not trying to say Brodeur is better, because I don't think that he is but a lot of time Roy gets pumped up for his teammates and Brodeur never gets any credit because of his.

 

[dgibb10]

This is a common argument that I see but in Montreal Roy had Larry Robinson leading the D and 2 o the best defensive forwards ever to play the game in Bob Gainey and Guy Carbanneu.
While Brodeur may have the edge in overall roster, people make it seem like it was Roy all by himself and Brodeur had a stacked roster.

I'm not trying to say Brodeur is better, because I don't think that he is but a lot of time Roy gets pumped up for his teammates and Brodeur never gets any credit because of his.

Don't forget Chris Chelios.

Roy wins all his vezinas with lemaire around, crickets.
Roy gets HOF dmen in front of him, crickets. But it's the first thing people bring up when it comes to broduer.
Trying to spin 0.934 as a masterclass for roy in 01 but not special for broduer in 03 (with SEVEN shutouts).
Ignoring the puck handling that actively prevented shots against.
Ignoring Broduer playing an extra 20 games a year

Roy took over a team that was 4th in Goals against the previous year.

 

[VistamarCroissants]

There are lots of Eddie Shore highlight reels on his Einsteingram page

 

[Golden_Jet]

Don't forget Chris Chelios.

Or Scott Stevens

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Or Scott Stevens

Marty certainly had some good defensemen sure, but don't act like Roy didn't have good guys when he had Robinson, Chelios, Ray Bourque, Rob Blake plus the 2 best defensive forward to play the game in Guy Carbanneau and Bob Gainey on his rosters.

 

[dgibb10]

Or Scott Stevens

Stevens and neidermeyer are the FIRST thing mentioned (along with Lemaire) to discredit broduer.

But lemaire being with the habs for every single one of Roy's vezinas is crickets.

Chellos never mentioned.
Robinson never mentioned.
Ray Bourque never mentioned
Blake never mentioned

 

[Finnen]

Bobby Hull play NHL and AHL hockey don't forget.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Bobby Hull play NHL and AHL hockey don't forget.

I think you mean NHL and WHA

 

[brentashton]

Don't see Matthews

Hockey, not man purses…

 

[Finnen]

I think you mean NHL and WHA

I remember wrong from the beginning, but I look at the facts on this one again you has right.

 

[Johnny Tomala]

Gretzky, Howe, Orr, Lemieux, Richard, Hull, Beliveau, Hašek, Jagr, McDavid.

 

[Caps8112]

I would go out on a limb and say that at this point 95%+ of users on this site did not see any of the 1970s NHL.

A few did, for sure. But most of these votes are just going to be based on what they have heard or just biased towards the recent players entirely.

I said something similar to this in a different thread comparing old timers versus today. While I agree from watching hockey since the 80s and reading a lot that the big 4 are the big 4, I would bet at least to some extent with these type of polls, younger users just go along with the big 4 because it has been almost put into law on this forum. I never saw Howe, Orr play. I know that when I saw Lemieux and Gretzky play they are a tier above all other hockey ive watched. Thought the same about Crosby and Ovi when comparing them to the rest of the players they played with. I never saw Shore, Hull, Beliveau, Harvey so I cant give input other than looking at stats. Mcdavid imo, could get as high as 3. Really dont know what he could do to surpass 99/66.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I said something similar to this in a different thread comparing old timers versus today. While I agree from watching hockey since the 80s and reading a lot that the big 4 are the big 4, I would bet at least to some extent with these type of polls, younger users just go along with the big 4 because it has been almost put into law on this forum. I never saw Howe, Orr play. I know that when I saw Lemieux and Gretzky play they are a tier above all other hockey ive watched. Thought the same about Crosby and Ovi when comparing them to the rest of the players they played with. I never saw Shore, Hull, Beliveau, Harvey so I cant give input other than looking at stats. Mcdavid imo, could get as high as 3. Really dont know what he could do to surpass 99/66.

Poster made a poll

When did you start watching/following the NHL?

Curious of the age of the posters here, what is the earliest NHL you actually watched live (or on TV)

forums.hfboards.com

 

[blundluntman]

Lmao at that.

MTL was 4th in goals against the year before roy got there, and had consistently multiple top selke candidates, including a guy who literally made the HOF based on his defense alone in Carbonneau, and multiple norris candidate HOFers in Chellios and Robinson. Let's cut the crap about those MTL teams.

They had Brian Hayward getting vezina votes right alongside Roy.

Lets cut the bullshit.

He didn't have Chellios, Robinson or Gainey in 93 (which is the season that is at the top of the list with 95 Brodeur). Roy has played on some strong teams obviously, but his best performance came when those defensive HOFers were basically all gone outside of Carboneau. I've already given credit to Brodeur for his 95 cup run but outside of that one, his other runs don't even place in the top 25 on that list while Roy appears in the top 25 4x (3x in the top 10 alone). The 86 and 89 Canadiens were strong teams with good defensive support, but they weren't the 70s Habs dynasty; performing at that level is never an easy feat, let alone doing it 3x.

I brought up the chart to show Brodeur's 95, 00, and 03 cup runs weren't all equal to Roy's cup runs and that's still true. 95 vs 93 favors Roy because his defensive support wasn't the same caliber as NJ's trap. Even if you wanna argue Roy didn't "do more with less" every time, he still did "more".

Don't forget Chris Chelios.

Roy wins all his vezinas with lemaire around, crickets.
Roy gets HOF dmen in front of him, crickets. But it's the first thing people bring up when it comes to broduer.
Trying to spin 0.934 as a masterclass for roy in 01 but not special for broduer in 03 (with SEVEN shutouts).
Ignoring the puck handling that actively prevented shots against.
Ignoring Broduer playing an extra 20 games a year

Roy took over a team that was 4th in Goals against the previous year.

I didn't call 01 a masterclass, I called 93 and 86 masterclasses, his 01 run is probably his 4th best playoff run which is saying a lot. Roy played with some great defensemen in his career, but he proved he could do it without them or Jacques Lemaire in 93. Nobody here is saying Brodeur isn't a great goaltender, he's obviously one of the greatest of all time, I just don't think he's on the same level as Roy and Hasek at their best.

 

[BHawk21]

Lidstrom??

 

[dgibb10]

He didn't have Chellios, Robinson or Gainey in 93 (which is the season that is at the top of the list with 95 Brodeur). Roy has played on some strong teams obviously, but his best performance came when those defensive HOFers were basically all gone outside of Carboneau. I've already given credit to Brodeur for his 95 cup run but outside of that one, his other runs don't even place in the top 25 on that list while Roy appears in the top 25 4x (3x in the top 10 alone). The 86 and 89 Canadiens were strong teams with good defensive support, but they weren't the 70s Habs dynasty; performing at that level is never an easy feat, let alone doing it 3x.

I brought up the chart to show Brodeur's 95, 00, and 03 cup runs weren't all equal to Roy's cup runs and that's still true. 95 vs 93 favors Roy because his defensive support wasn't the same caliber as NJ's trap. Even if you wanna argue Roy didn't "do more with less" every time, he still did "more".


I didn't call 01 a masterclass, I called 93 and 86 masterclasses, his 01 run is probably his 4th best playoff run which is saying a lot. Roy played with some great defensemen in his career, but he proved he could do it without them or Jacques Lemaire in 93. Nobody here is saying Brodeur isn't a great goaltender, he's obviously one of the greatest of all time, I just don't think he's on the same level as Roy and Hasek at their best.

Lemaire was with MTL in 1993. He moved to NJD after that season. MTL was running a similar system.

If you don't think Brodeur's 03 run of 7 shutouts and a 0.934 is one of the best runs of all time I don't know what to say.

The habs were running a similar system to NJD. They couldn't do it exactly the same way because Roy was nowhere near Brodeur as a puckhandler tho.

A key factor missing from sv% is just how many shots Brodeur would prevent with his puck play, or even just the threat of his puck play forcing teams to play differently. Or the fact that brodeur would play an extra 10- 20 games a year along the way to the playoffs, so those cup runs in 00 and 03 were 100 game seasons for broduer.

Roy is below Broduer, and it wouldn't even be close if Brodeur didn't get robbed of a year in his prime by the lockout.

 

[blundluntman]

Lemaire was with MTL in 1993. He moved to NJD after that season. MTL was running a similar system.

If you don't think Brodeur's 03 run of 7 shutouts and a 0.934 is one of the best runs of all time I don't know what to say.

The habs were running a similar system to NJD. They couldn't do it exactly the same way because Roy was nowhere near Brodeur as a puckhandler tho.

A key factor missing from sv% is just how many shots Brodeur would prevent with his puck play, or even just the threat of his puck play forcing teams to play differently. Or the fact that brodeur would play an extra 10- 20 games a year along the way to the playoffs, so those cup runs in 00 and 03 were 100 game seasons for broduer.

Roy is below Broduer, and it wouldn't even be close if Brodeur didn't get robbed of a year in his prime by the lockout.

Looks like I was wrong, Lemaire actually only coached Roy for a whopping 20 minutes of his career. He retired in 85 and returned to coach New Jersey in 94.

Brodeur's 03 run is stellar, but it's not better than 86, 89, or 93; it's right there with 01 and I wouldn't be upset if someone said it was a bit better.

The Habs were not trapping like New Jersey. It was a collective effort from their players (especially in 93), they definitely weren't a structural boa constrictor like NJ.

Brodeur's puck handling and the trap indeed played a role in his sv%, and he does get credit for being a workhorse (However, I don't think that's a good explanation for his numbers being lower, and actually suggests it's a bad thing. The Devils weren't making the playoffs by the skin of their teeth, he could've very easily taken games off if it actually impacted his performance). All that being said, it was very much a two-way street with Brodeur and NJ's system, and outside of his GP and win totals, nothing about his resume suggests he's better than Roy and Hasek let alone on their level. I'd actually slot him right in with Belfour as far as peak performance is concerned. He gets credit for his durability and outside factors, but that's what separates him from a Belfour/Lundqvist/Price, not what puts groups him with Roy/Hasek.

Also, if Brodeur was robbed of a prime season (which I can only assume would matter if this was about trophy counting), then it all evens out by that logic considering Luongo was robbed blind in 04 (Turco too more than likely but I won't even get into that).

 

[Sheppy]

Ovechkin has 3 seasons that are all better than Crosby's best season.

Show me.

 

[dgibb10]

Looks like I was wrong, Lemaire actually only coached Roy for a whopping 20 minutes of his career. He retired in 85 and returned to coach New Jersey in 94.

Brodeur's 03 run is stellar, but it's not better than 86, 89, or 93; it's right there with 01 and I wouldn't be upset if someone said it was a bit better.

The Habs were not trapping like New Jersey. It was a collective effort from their players (especially in 93), they definitely weren't a structural boa constrictor like NJ.

Brodeur's puck handling and the trap indeed played a role in his sv%, and he does get credit for being a workhorse (However, I don't think that's a good explanation for his numbers being lower, and actually suggests it's a bad thing. The Devils weren't making the playoffs by the skin of their teeth, he could've very easily taken games off if it actually impacted his performance). All that being said, it was very much a two-way street with Brodeur and NJ's system, and outside of his GP and win totals, nothing about his resume suggests he's better than Roy and Hasek let alone on their level. I'd actually slot him right in with Belfour as far as peak performance is concerned. He gets credit for his durability and outside factors, but that's what separates him from a Belfour/Lundqvist/Price, not what puts groups him with Roy/Hasek.

Also, if Brodeur was robbed of a prime season (which I can only assume would matter if this was about trophy counting), then it all evens out by that logic considering Luongo was robbed blind in 04 (Turco too more than likely but I won't even get into that).

Lemaire was heavily involved in the habs organization that entire time.

Taking games off leads to worse seedings, worse records, and yes, potentially missed playoffs.

In fact, the devils were somewhat close to missing the playoffs in 1995 because the team was 3-7-2 with the backup.

In 2000 they were 2-9 with the backup in net. You don't know what will happen late, so you have to bank those wins early, and then compete for home ice.

Just because Roy's backup went 17-5-1 in 93, and the other 2 goalies went 17-15-2 in 86, and 22-6-7 in 96, and 12-7-3 in 01, doesn't mean brodeur was able to go take a quarter or half a season off

Getting these wins, getting home ice matters.

The habs COULDN'T trap like NJD did because they didn't have the best puck handling goalie of all time*