Player Discussion Thatcher Demko

[mossey3535]

Now...my memory may be f***ed from watching this garbage shit but @mossey3535 has been critical of Demkos form for a while now. Kudos to him.

I'm a huge fan of Demko but he's also a developing goalie who spent two years backing up, and just came off his first real #1 starter season.

We've been spoiled by the fact he's been so good and ahead of the curve for the last three seasons. To me a setback is probably long overdue.

I have been critical of his technique and habits for awhile now, and I predicted a tough season for him this preseason based on better scouting and the mental load of being a second year starter in the NHL.

However, I didn't expect performance this bad. And ironically I don't think this is due to injury or the holes in his technique. I've been hard on him because I think those little details are the hurdle he needs to get over to be an elite starter, and of course hopefully a good playoff goalie. And those little things are the proverbial 5-10% extra mile you have to go to be great.

So they don't explain this absolute cratering. His movements are crisp and he's willing to contort his body on desperation saves so I don't put much stock in the bad hip rumours. Most likely it is loss of confidence that has snowballed and is further exacerbated by: a streak of poor tracking, better opposition scouting, distractions from his marriage, being behind the normal training curve because of the surgery, and as I said earlier just plain ass development.

 

[iFan]

A lot of this is the team playing in front of him really sucks at playing defence. He’s been covering all the issues this team has had for years, he can take a year off to expose how bad the team in front of him is. The real question is… why did management double down on this core when we have serious cap and team make up issues. Was going shopping for more wingers when we already had a lot of the same and ignoring the major issues the team has Really the best decision? This management group kept making bad decisions after bad decisions and that’s why the fans here aren’t giving them much room… we seen this movie already. If they traded Miller, moved on from Boeser and started making these real moves, I would have zero issues giving them a much longer leash but when they come in and do more Benning moves thats just going to annoy a lot of us.

 

[TruGr1t]

Apparently dodged media availability tonight despite numerous requests.

 

[iFan]

Apparently dodged media availability tonight despite numerous requests.

I have no problem with that. It’s unfair to pin this mess on him. The media would have roasted him and that’s not going to do us any good. f*** the media. The heat needs to be put on the management group and they need to start doing their job. I’m sure Demko is annoyed that he has no support from the players in front of him and a gong show going on with the management and coaching, apparently locker room divisions… it’s a mess and Rutherford doubled down on this mess.

 

[mossey3535]

Just FYI, here are my Demko grades:

Set shots/open shooter: Elite
Fighting through screens: below average
Up skating: Average
Down skating: above average
Battle/improvisation: Great
Reading the play: Average
Lateral movement: above average
Rush chances, shots: average
Rush chances, dekes: Great
Puck handling: Average

That's off the top of my head, I'll add more when I have time to sit down and think about it.

 

[mossey3535]

Also, Spencer Martin needs to start until he loses. Demko needs a good week of getting back to the fundamentals with Clark to try and get a reset on his season.

And honestly, Clark needs to step up. Despite the win against Ottawa, Martin had some glaring errors and he also wasn't good in the previous three starts (I'm counting his last preseason game). Neither goalie is at their potential at the moment.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You were saying?

Now Demko played worse against he Habs then Spencer did against the Ducks.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I'm sure he'd have better numbers on a better defensive team.

But the thing is this - even bad goalies on all-time bad teams can generally put up something in the .885-895 range. In Buffalo's entire decade of tank - and those were some terrible teams - they never had a team save % below .900.

To be at .874 means that you've been *really* bad or really unlucky, and probably both. You could drop the average ECHL goalie onto an NHL team and I'd expect better results than that.

This is obviously a flawed team, but if we had even OK-ish .900 goaltending we'd be right in the middle of the glut of teams from 5th-12th in the conference.

Probably both indeed, plus demko has seemingly played alot, faced alot of shots, odd man rushes, PPs, turnovers, defensive breakdowns, high danger chances, wide open players in the slot etc..

Idk what the stats say but he's gotta be nearly tops in the league in those cats relative to mins played, and alot of road games.

Small sample size too, but I don't think he's been as bad as it may seem, the team in front is a mess frequently.

Demko prob is that .900-910 atleast on a team with less issues, and this team as its playing now maybe needs .920+ goaltending to be in that mid pack range.
This team is used to receiving that and now its not there.

 

[canuckking1]

So pissed that they rode him into the ground last year for a 5% playoff chance

 

[theguardianII]

They didn't ride him to the ground he thought he wanted to keep going until there was not chance or he got too injured.

Watching now it appears to be his right hip, it isn't going down the same and his push offs aren't as powerful to the left

 

[Vector]

 

[CanucksSayEh]

He's 26 years old with one full starter season in his career. He should be the most rested player on the team.

 

[Sinistril]

Just goes to show how illusionary last season was for the Canucks.....let's face it, the 2021-22 Demko was only thing between the Canucks and double digit losses on a lot of nights. He flat out stole two points on more occasions than I can remember.

But this year he's landed with a thud, and the Canucks are nowhere when they get 'average' goaltending. They're now close to the bottom of the league In GA, and their PK is the worst in the NHL and it's not particularly close.

If Demko's not right physically they should shut him down until he is. They're not going anywhere anyway.

If they had average goaltending this year, they'd be in the top 3 spots in the division right now. They are getting dumpster fire goaltending right now. A lot of people are so enamored with Demko that they won't be able to see it for a long time. People love to blame everyone but him, but he's below replacement level right now and moaning about the rest of the team won't fix that.

It's possible teams have just figured him out

 

[Breakers]

So pissed that they rode him into the ground last year for a 5% playoff chance

Boudreau f'd up so bad

He had his first game off in like 10+ games, and somebody stepped on halak's hand, so he played 60% of the rest of that game, then even more starts

then they called up Martin and he could have given him a break but kept riding him,
He was injured against Ottawa April 19th against, and he played two more consecutive games while injured

boudreau is an idiot.

 

[Nucker101]

Sooo I assume groin or knee issue?

Or he is healthy and it's all mental

 

[Canuckle1970]

I hope it's a confidence issue and not a physical problem for Demko.

He's "young" in goalie terms and his confidence can be re-gained with time, especially if they improve the D.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Sooo I assume groin or knee issue?

Or he is healthy and it's all mental

I for sure thought Roberto Luongo had severe injury because he flat out stunk in March/April 2008. It was surreal watching him go from a hero to a zero in a span of 11 months.

Goaltenders are prone to being very fragile.

 

[theguardianII]

IMO Dahli just confirmed it is the hips. He purposely stated he did not have a hip injury because if he had he would not be back playing so fast.

That is true and false.

The surgery was in 2015;
"He had double hip surgery. He had an impingement on both sides, bone on bone, and he had torn labrums," said Thatcher's mom, Danielle Demko, "So it was both hips, and normally the doctor doesn't do both hips at the same time because the body can't handle all that trauma. When they tested Thatcher, they told him he was in such great shape, you can endure this, and Thatcher wanted to get both done and accelerate and be done with it and get back to playing."

Playing through injuries was the norm for Thatcher. He had been playing with issues in both hips for a while. In 2015, he opted for surgery.

Botchford;
“Yes. There were definitely a lot of limitations,” he said. “It’s hard to explain and put into words. But it’s not just the hips that hurt.

“Your back goes out. Your groin starts hurting. Everything comes together.

Medical paper;

The most common symptom of a loosening hip replacement is the development of increasing pain. This would normally be felt during weight-bearing i.e. walking. Occasionally, the pain may not be persistent but may come on suddenly, particularly with a twisting movement of the leg

The repair does need to be a long term recovery.

But if one goes then the other could be close.

Other goalies have had this operation but most at the highest work loads retire within 6 years.
Luongo, Hasek, Thomas, Rask, all had great careers and all had this surgery

Although resurfacing materials are strong, they aren’t immune to wear and tear. Our physiotherapists usually advise patients to avoid high-impact activities. Heavy sports that require jogging, running, jumping, quick stopping and starting, and cutting are discouraged. Repetitive impact can strain the resurfacing, increasing the risk of loosening.

Demko did not have hip surgery in the sense of a major operation but he may have had hip repair or cleaning which is not considered a major event, more like maintenance.

Demko mentioned a MRI, these are used to see bones or joints. Whatever it was need a surgical procedure.

And it is affecting his play now, as described by many goalies before the resurfacing he seems to be having pre-surgery symptoms, less power pushing off, butterfly not as wide or all the way down to the ice, 5 hole not being covered as well, the more time stressing the less effective in the game. This need not be every game or only at the end of the game, it could be anytime but mostly later in a game.

Sit him out, pick the games to play and make a trade ASAP.

 

[Royal Canuck]

IMO Dahli just confirmed it is the hips. He purposely stated he did not have a hip injury because if he had he would not be back playing so fast.

That is true and false.

The surgery was in 2015;
"He had double hip surgery. He had an impingement on both sides, bone on bone, and he had torn labrums," said Thatcher's mom, Danielle Demko, "So it was both hips, and normally the doctor doesn't do both hips at the same time because the body can't handle all that trauma. When they tested Thatcher, they told him he was in such great shape, you can endure this, and Thatcher wanted to get both done and accelerate and be done with it and get back to playing."

Playing through injuries was the norm for Thatcher. He had been playing with issues in both hips for a while. In 2015, he opted for surgery.

Botchford;
“Yes. There were definitely a lot of limitations,” he said. “It’s hard to explain and put into words. But it’s not just the hips that hurt.

“Your back goes out. Your groin starts hurting. Everything comes together.

Medical paper;

The most common symptom of a loosening hip replacement is the development of increasing pain. This would normally be felt during weight-bearing i.e. walking. Occasionally, the pain may not be persistent but may come on suddenly, particularly with a twisting movement of the leg

The repair does need to be a long term recovery.

But if one goes then the other could be close.

Other goalies have had this operation but most at the highest work loads retire within 6 years.
Luongo, Hasek, Thomas, Rask, all had great careers and all had this surgery

Although resurfacing materials are strong, they aren’t immune to wear and tear. Our physiotherapists usually advise patients to avoid high-impact activities. Heavy sports that require jogging, running, jumping, quick stopping and starting, and cutting are discouraged. Repetitive impact can strain the resurfacing, increasing the risk of loosening.

Demko did not have hip surgery in the sense of a major operation but he may have had hip repair or cleaning which is not considered a major event, more like maintenance.

Demko mentioned a MRI, these are used to see bones or joints. Whatever it was need a surgical procedure.

And it is affecting his play now, as described by many goalies before the resurfacing he seems to be having pre-surgery symptoms, less power pushing off, butterfly not as wide or all the way down to the ice, 5 hole not being covered as well, the more time stressing the less effective in the game. This need not be every game or only at the end of the game, it could be anytime but mostly later in a game.

Sit him out, pick the games to play and make a trade ASAP.

If there was something seriously wrong with his hips, the team would know and wouldn't be playing him when the team in front of him is this bad. Honestly, they'd probably put him on the LTIR to get some help for the roster seeing as they've constructed the team to make a run this year. I just don't believe the team would ignore an issue as big as you're stringing it out to be and just letting him get lit up on a nightly basis while battling with an injury like this.

 

[EpochLink]

Demko playing injured or he's just had bad luck.
Either or, he needs to site a couple and work on his game.

 

[Melvin]

Demkos 5v5 save% is 907. That’s … not great, but not disastrous. Somewhere around the lower end of the middle, slightly ahead of Markstrom who is at 905.

The problem of course is that the penalty killing is just the worst anything that anyone has ever seen, and it’s not really clear how much of that is luck and how much of it is demkos fault. His save% on the PK is an amazing 667, which is last in the league unsurprisingly, but Martin is only a few spots higher at 722.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Facts: Demko’s save% and gaa are the worst amongst all starting goaltenders. If he’s injured he should be sidelined until he is healed. If he isn’t injured, he should reduced to splitting games 50/50 with Martin until he regains his form: playing him heavily certainly isn’t helping the team win right now.

 

[theguardianII]

If there was something seriously wrong with his hips, the team would know and wouldn't be playing him when the team in front of him is this bad. Honestly, they'd probably put him on the LTIR to get some help for the roster seeing as they've constructed the team to make a run this year. I just don't believe the team would ignore an issue as big as you're stringing it out to be and just letting him get lit up on a nightly basis while battling with an injury like this.

First there is no help to be had.
Second he has played with really bad hips before
Third he didn't tell anyone last year, he said if they had done an MRI they would have taken out right away and he thought his playing gave the team the best chance as they were going for a playoff spot, he played 3 games last year with an lower body injury that required surgery.

The MRI comment kinda means he hid how bad it was from the team.

 

[Green Blank Stare]

So many excuses for a guy who's playing horrendous. Martin isn't setting the world on fire himself but he looks like a Vezina candidate compared to Demko. On top of that, Martin is an AHL journeyman playing in front of the same terrible defense.

Also of note, Demko is ducking the media during this time, which tells me, he's mentally weak. This isn't a guy playing for a chance in the NHL like Martin.; he just got a 5/$25 million contract.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Medical paper;

The most common symptom of a loosening hip replacement is the development of increasing pain. This would normally be felt during weight-bearing i.e. walking. Occasionally, the pain may not be persistent but may come on suddenly, particularly with a twisting movement of the leg ...

... Although resurfacing materials are strong, they aren’t immune to wear and tear. Our physiotherapists usually advise patients to avoid high-impact activities. Heavy sports that require jogging, running, jumping, quick stopping and starting, and cutting are discouraged. Repetitive impact can strain the resurfacing, increasing the risk of loosening.

You seem to be quoting on article on symptoms of wear in artificial hip joints. Demko doesn't have an artificial hip joint.