Rumor: Teams connected to Faulk: CHI, DET, EDM, and TOR

[GIN ANTONIC]

Well, Skinner got Cliff Pu, a 2nd, a 3rd and a 6th, which honestly isn't a lot for a guy who has never scored below 20g pace, usually 28+, and is just 2 years removed from a career high 37 goals. People will point to injuries being a factor in the return, but Jeff Skinner, while he did have problems early on has been very healthy of late only missing 3 games in the last 3 seasons, and only 8 in the last 4.

While they aren't at all comparable players, they were both traded by the same GM, and it's pretty easy to call Skinner the well more valuable of the two assets.

Given all that, I think Faulk should get a B prospect, 2nd round pick and maybe a mid-late pick sweetener.

Injury concern didn’t play nearly as much of a part in the return for Skinner as did the fact that he had a full NMC and is a UFA at seasons end. Him and his agent likely gave Carolina a very short list of teams he would go to ala Kesler to Anaheim. Hence, a less than inspired return. Faulk is signed for two years, has a limited NTC and there are lots of teams who would be interested in a top 4 puck moving RHD on a good contract. As a comparison it’s apples and ninja stars.

 

[Sypher04]

Injury concern didn’t play nearly as much of a part in the return for Skinner as did the fact that he had a full NMC and is a UFA at seasons end. Him and his agent likely gave Carolina a very short list of teams he would go to ala Kesler to Anaheim. Hence, a less than inspired return. Faulk is signed for two years, has a limited NTC and there are lots of teams who would be interested in a top 4 puck moving RHD on a good contract. As a comparison it’s apples and ninja stars.

Having only 1 year left on a deal has never really been proven to have any adverse effect on value. People pay crazy value for players at the deadline when they are basically down to their last few months. I'll give you the full NMC though.

Unfortunately Faulk is a tirefire in his own zone, so...

 

[Hoverhand]

He’s really not getting dragged through the mud. He’s being touted as more than he is. He got 3rd line minutes in Toronto and would get 3rd line minutes in Carolina

And re your comment about he isn’t the main piece, that’s not what other leafs fans said. One said it starts and ends with brown. Given who our GM is, I’ll never say never though.

Im sure some Leaf fans think Eamon McAdam should be the main piece, whatever.

despite Brown averaging 15 minutes, he was on the 4th line. Freddy Gauthier, Matt Martin, Dom Moore, and Tomas Plekanec (the bad kind) were some of the linemates he cycled thru. Babcock just plays the 3rd and 4th pretty evenly.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That may be true, but if you're going to be using "points per 82 games played", you have to include the fact that RNH has played exactly one 82 game season. So if you want to talk about actual production, his production would be "points per 82 games played" X "% of 82 game season played". That paints a bit of a different picture as a 47.5 point per season player (based on historical % of actual games played).

Look I like RNH a lot as a piece for the Canes and I doubt that a deal involving Faulk and RNH gets done. But the values considering all factors (RNH's fragility and Faulk's inconsistent defense, for example) are probably closer in GMs eyes. RNH has the potential of putting up a significant jump in points should he play primarily w/CMcD. Faulk, just as likely, rebounds on the scoring front (he shot at a 3.8% clip, significantly below his historic shooting %). This discussion 6 months from now is probably similar in tenor, but from a more positive outlook from both sides.

You lost this argument when you went to the ‘fragility’ well. Over the last five seasons, Faulk averages a grand total of 3.5 more games played per season. An average of 71 games vs an average of 74.5. This isn’t Zach Bogosian level of injuries we’re talking about here. What WOULD raise red flags for the average GM would be Faulk’s declining play, mobility issues, and generally disinterested level of play.

 

[Liferleafer]

You lost this argument when you went to the ‘fragility’ well. Over the last five seasons, Faulk averages a grand total of 3.5 more games played per season. An average of 71 games vs an average of 74.5. This isn’t Zach Bogosian level of injuries we’re talking about here. What WOULD raise red flags for the average GM would be Faulk’s declining play, mobility issues, and generally disinterested level of play.

This is my issue...it isn't like he had a "rough stretch" of games....or even an off season, he's had 2 less than stellar seasons back to back. I don't get the value being placed on him.

The Oilers dealing RNH would quickly become the Hall/Larsson trade 2.0....and i would take Larsson over Faulk all day.

 

[Notsince67]

lmao Their not moving rnh when he worked well with mc D at the end of season. His value is also not any less than Faulk.

Not a big fan of RNH but I think he has more value

 

[GoldiFox]

This is my issue...it isn't like he had a "rough stretch" of games....or even an off season, he's had 2 less than stellar seasons back to back. I don't get the value being placed on him.

The Oilers dealing RNH would quickly become the Hall/Larsson trade 2.0....and i would take Larsson over Faulk all day.

Back to back bad seasons? In 2016-17 Faulk had 17 goals good for 2nd in the league among defenders behind Brent Burns (29) and tied with Karlsson/Weber with Faulk playing the least games and lowest TOI/GP of the 3.

The Canes and Faulk weren’t incredible, but he had a good year. Edmonton won’t trade RNH for Faulk right now but that is no reason to start re-writing history.

 

[BM14]

Back to back bad seasons? In 2016-17 Faulk had 17 goals good for 2nd in the league among defenders behind Brent Burns (29) and tied with Karlsson/Weber with Faulk playing the least games and lowest TOI/GP of the 3.

The Canes and Faulk weren’t incredible, but he had a good year. Trying to re-write history.

How's his defensive game?

 

[GoldiFox]

How's his defensive game?

Faulk is experienced and smart enough to be effective in the defensive zone. He doesn’t get outworked or outsmarted once set up more often than an average top-4 guy. He uses his stout frame to hold his ground well around the net. Against top teams last year Peters would pair Slavin-Faulk to help the 2nd pair and Faulk played decent enough against top competition.

Faulk’s issue is that he gets flat footed in the neutral zone and ends up roasted by speedy players. His recovery acceleration, especially switching directions, has suffered for the past few years. It took an extra hit when Brad Malone injured him in practice a couple years ago.

Faulk has slowly bulked up from ~200 lbs as a Rookie to up to 220+ lbs last year. Common thing for athletes to struggle with is strength vs. mobility and Faulk shifted too far towards strength as the league is currently shifting more towards speed.

Reports say he is cutting weight this offseason to improve his skating for next year. Given that he has 2 years left on his deal it makes sense for the Canes to wait for a rebound.

 

[Liminality]

Faulk is experienced and smart enough to be effective in the defensive zone. He doesn’t get outworked or outsmarted once set up more often than an average top-4 guy. He uses his stout frame to hold his ground well around the net. Against top teams last year Peters would pair Slavin-Faulk to help the 2nd pair and Faulk played decent enough against top competition.

Faulk’s issue is that he gets flat footed in the neutral zone and ends up roasted by speedy players. His recovery acceleration, especially switching directions, has suffered for the past few years. It took an extra hit when Brad Malone injured him in practice a couple years ago.

Faulk has slowly bulked up from ~200 lbs as a Rookie to up to 220+ lbs last year. Common thing for athletes to struggle with is strength vs. mobility and Faulk shifted too far towards strength as the league is currently shifting more towards speed.

Reports say he is cutting weight this offseason to improve his skating for next year. Given that he has 2 years left on his deal it makes sense for the Canes to wait for a rebound.

Sounds like what L.Schenn did for the Leafs during his early years. Focused too much on gaining mass to help his strength and slowed down too much. If Faulk does recover from that it sounds like he'll be good.

 

[Liferleafer]

Back to back bad seasons? In 2016-17 Faulk had 17 goals good for 2nd in the league among defenders behind Brent Burns (29) and tied with Karlsson/Weber with Faulk playing the least games and lowest TOI/GP of the 3.

The Canes and Faulk weren’t incredible, but he had a good year. Edmonton won’t trade RNH for Faulk right now but that is no reason to start re-writing history.

Not looking to get into a pissing contest, but as a Leafs fan, points from defensemen don't impress me....defense does. Otherwise 50 point Gardiner would be worth a shit ton....but he isn't.

 

[Mr Positive]

...

Reports say he is cutting weight this offseason to improve his skating for next year. Given that he has 2 years left on his deal it makes sense for the Canes to wait for a rebound.

the issue here is that it could be hard for Faulk to bounce back if he's stuck behind two other RHD in the depth chart. There is big risk here that even if he improves, his value will go down.

edit: I will say this though. I think that the Canes could still wait until the season starts before trading him. I still think that waiting too long will erode his value, but if they are bargaining with teams, they might as well make that process take longer, and perhaps teams will give a little extra after seeing what they have in pre-season, or after giving a young Dman a 9 game stint in the NHL, and sending him back down.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Not looking to get into a pissing contest, but as a Leafs fan, points from defensemen don't impress me....defense does. Otherwise 50 point Gardiner would be worth a **** ton....but he isn't.

Certain Canes fans will never stop apologizing for Faulk, even though he’s the worst defensive defenceman on that team by a country mile. The knives will come out once he’s gone.

He’s a bigger, slower, less mobile Barrie with worse offense.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Back to back bad seasons? In 2016-17 Faulk had 17 goals good for 2nd in the league among defenders behind Brent Burns (29) and tied with Karlsson/Weber with Faulk playing the least games and lowest TOI/GP of the 3.

The Canes and Faulk weren’t incredible, but he had a good year. Edmonton won’t trade RNH for Faulk right now but that is no reason to start re-writing history.

Faulk has been sub 40 points for three straight seasons. For a guy whose calling card is offense, that is not good enough.

He’s got five more points than Brent Seabrook over the last two seasons, who’s widely looked at as pretty much done.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

I think Faulk must have slept with a certain someone’s wife.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Mike Green got a good contract as a UFA having spent his last season in Washington on the 3rd pairing. Kevin Shattenkirk got full rental value despite ceding minutes to Parayko in 16-17. GMs can be forgiving to players that play premium positions.

Faulk's value won't go down if he rebounds, but the odds of him returning a player in a hockey trade will. That's just a function of his contract. Get under 2 years of term and you're looking at a package of lesser assets.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Having only 1 year left on a deal has never really been proven to have any adverse effect on value. People pay crazy value for players at the deadline when they are basically down to their last few months. I'll give you the full NMC though.

Unfortunately Faulk is a tirefire in his own zone, so...

What makes the one year UFA status tricky in conjunction with the NMC is that if the Sabres are out of it by the TDL (which is very likely) they can't just trade Skinner off to the highest bidder to re-coup assets. They have to go through the same thing that the Canes did. He gets to choose his destination and that can greatly affect his trade value. It's for sure a negative in this situation.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I think Faulk must have slept with a certain someone’s wife.

Are you accusing Faulk of sleeping with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins??

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I think Faulk must have slept with a certain someone’s wife.

Please, look how flaccid he is defensively. No way he got it up.

Oh and BTW personal shots toward me aren’t really necessary. My dislike of Faulk is entirely hockey based. Try real hard to keep your criticisms of me along the same lines.

I still have yet to see a single one of you put together any kind of cogent defence of Faulk as a hockey player, preferring rather to attack guys like RNH and Brown and individual posters. Poor form, Hurricanes echo chamber.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I still have yet to see a single one of you put together any kind of cogent defence of Faulk as a hockey player, preferring rather to attack guys like RNH and Brown and individual posters. Poor form, Hurricanes echo chamber.

Doesn't matter, you've done this with numerous other players from other teams (especially Canes players), and every time you're presented with decent information from people who watch them regularly, you just ignore it.

Nobody is saying he's amazing defensively, but he's not the worst ever either, he's somewhere in the middle. Even if he's average middle-pairing defensively, offensively he's much better than your average 2nd pairing guy. He's spent a lot of time playing through injuries the past couple seasons (thanks Malone) and still putting up decent numbers, on an offensively inept team. Don't want him? Fine, we'll keep him and have some of the best RHD depth in the league, works for us.

 

[yababy]

Sorry buddy but wake up, Aho just out scored drai's 20 year old season and drives his own line for the whole season.

list of players who scored more goals that Draisaitl who also can't sniff his jock.
Trochek, Point, Seguin, Rantanen, Pastrnak, Aho etc.

 

[bleedgreen]

Having only 1 year left on a deal has never really been proven to have any adverse effect on value. People pay crazy value for players at the deadline when they are basically down to their last few months. I'll give you the full NMC though.

Unfortunately Faulk is a tirefire in his own zone, so...

This narrative gets played harder and harder as this all goes. This interesting concept of Faulk being a horrible defender. It’s just wrong. He’s a pretty good defender, he doesn’t mind throwing his body around and has gotten smarter about postioning and decisions every year. He fights for his spot in front of the net. He doesn’t get dangled.

He isn’t the most mobile lateral skater, so he can be beat and has trouble recovering. Peters system leads to him being too far forward and guys out let him sometimes because of the skating. He’s way better in straight lines, he’s fast when he’s north/south. For the same reason I’ve never been a fan of him using escape moves and carrying it further than he should when he could’ve gotten rid of it.

Those flaws don’t lead to “dumpster fire in his own end”, they limit his ability to be on the top pair and make him more suited as a second pair guy who can put up legit goal totals. His offense dropped this year, as the whole team dropped. They’ve changed his role and took away Hainsey to replace him with Hanifin and Fleury. It’s not hard to see why he took a step back, unless of course you don’t know the Canes at all.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Doesn't matter, you've done this with numerous other players from other teams (especially Canes players), and every time you're presented with decent information from people who watch them regularly, you just ignore it.

Nobody is saying he's amazing defensively, ‘decent but he's not the worst ever either, he's somewhere in the middle. Even if he's average middle-pairing defensively, offensively he's much better than your average 2nd pairing guy. He's spent a lot of time playing through injuries the past couple seasons (thanks Malone) and still putting up decent numbers, on an offensively inept team. Don't want him? Fine, we'll keep him and have some of the best RHD depth in the league, works for us.

Sure, and you wouldn’t try to oversell your player to the rest of the board, would you? Decent information from people that watch him is just anecdotal evidence from people that have a vested interest in maximizing his outgoing value.

Who knows, maybe finally playing bottom pairing minutes against fourth liners will be good for him. His defensive metrics are abysmal.

Go ahead and keep him. No one in their right mind is giving up the blue chip prospects and top six players you apparently think he’s worth.

 

[meefer]

I've been reading this thread with interest because, as a Leafs fan, I realize that upgrading our RD would help us quite a bit. Given the lack of 'available' RDs, Faulk presents potential in doing so. Thanks to a few Cane fans for providing some useful info as to his declining skating abilities, and the possible reasons for that decline. The manner in which he's been used positionally is also helpful in understanding why his stats look 'dubious'. That said, from what I've read, Faulk's skating ability has declined and while Peter's system may not match Faulk's strengths, I'd ask the Cane fans who wish to chime in, what positions or needs do you see your team having that could be addressed by moving Faulk? I suspect goaltending unless you believe Darling or Mrazek can rebound. Your D corp looks pretty solid to me (a complete trade of D corp would be accepted by me ), which leads to your forward group. Are you looking for LW, C or RW? I don't follow the Canes enough to know your group well. What do you need?

 

[spockBokk]

Biggest need for Faulk at the moment would be a LW or preferably C who has a track record of scoring 20g a season. Will they get that, who knows?

When they asked CHI for Saad 1-1, the Blackhawks balked. I think he’s still a Hurricane because Donnie Wadz has stuck to his guns in asking price so far. Whether or not that changes going into the season, again, who knows?

It’s a risk, I think l, holding onto Faulk, but it’s one they have to take. They can’t let Faulk go for a Skinner-like return. They also will need to take back some salary in a deal as I believe they’d be under the floor after shedding Faulk’s $4.8M hit. That’s likely one of the reasons why you haven’t seen a futures trade yet. CAR needs to trade Faulk to supplement their very young forward core. When that actually happens is anyone’s guess.