Team Toughness

[Mess]

Be careful saying toughness around here. People might think you mean a Colton Orr instead of a guy who just battles below the goal line and can protect the puck very well and around the net.



Even though guys who can bring this is what we have always meant

Very true.

To some it means knuckle dragging goons.

To others its about playing hard, and physical, and fearless and players that don't disappear when the going gets tough.

 

[Dough72]

Dubas is the reason the Leafs struggle in the playoffs. He is also the reason the leafs stars are taking so long to become acclimated to playoff hockey. While other teams spend 82 games getting their players ready for playoff environment Dubas tells his players to "not" finish their body checks and that they can continue to dance the puck through the neutral zone. These strategies are so comically stupid the only explanation is Dubas and his nasty little personal quest to "re-think" hockey and thumb his nose at everything that came before. The Leafs still might win the Cup but it will be despite kyle dubas and entirely because he inherited the most talented team in leafs history and one that would have gone on multiple Stanley Cup runs already if Dubas hadn't single-handedly raised the difficulty curve.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I keep waiting for the day Matthews doesn't look like George Constanza running out of a burning apartment whenever he gets into any situation that even hints a fist could be thrown.

Honestly, I can't say I've ever seen a player more terrified of getting into a fight; It's embarrassing. I said last year that Simmonds should pull him aside after practice and give him a primer on how to hockey fight. Probably take a few sessions but at least Matty will get some confidence instead of skating away like his pants were on fire.

On the plus side, he's at least being using his body effectively to push players off the puck and even throws the odd check. But toughness is not in his vocabulary.

Why on earth would you want the guy with the best hands on the team (league?) who also has battled wrist issues in the past scrapping? That’s for the plugs.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Dubas is the reason the Leafs struggle in the playoffs. He is also the reason the leafs stars are taking so long to become acclimated to playoff hockey. While other teams spend 82 games getting their players ready for playoff environment Dubas tells his players to "not" finish their body checks and that they can continue to dance the puck through the neutral zone. These strategies are so comically stupid the only explanation is Dubas and his nasty little personal quest to "re-think" hockey and thumb his nose at everything that came before. The Leafs still might win the Cup but it will be despite kyle dubas and entirely because he inherited the most talented team in leafs history and one that would have gone on multiple Stanley Cup runs already if Dubas hadn't single-handedly raised the difficulty curve.

This is beyond stupid. Kyle has brought in Muzzin Clifford Ritchie Simmonds Bogosian foligno, keeps rich Clune around on the Marlies to show the young guys the ropes. I feel bad for taking the bait, but screw it… it has to be said.

 

[Judas Tavares]

I'm more concerned about mental toughness and intensity.

Yep. The biggest hurdle for this team at this point is themselves. Maybe that mental coach they brought in will be the biggest acquisition going forward.

To me, exercising any demons will do more than bringing in some grass is greener player who seems great cause they aren't on our team.

 

[Stephen]

I keep waiting for the day Matthews doesn't look like George Constanza running out of a burning apartment whenever he gets into any situation that even hints a fist could be thrown.

Honestly, I can't say I've ever seen a player more terrified of getting into a fight; It's embarrassing. I said last year that Simmonds should pull him aside after practice and give him a primer on how to hockey fight. Probably take a few sessions but at least Matty will get some confidence instead of skating away like his pants were on fire.

On the plus side, he's at least being using his body effectively to push players off the puck and even throws the odd check. But toughness is not in his vocabulary.

He one armed bear hugged young Bowen Byram out of a scrum a la Mats Sundin last night when Bunting was stirring up trouble.

I think Matthews' grit level naturally goes up when he isn't with Marner. He tends to take on too much of a finesse persona when the two of them are together and rises to the occasion physically at other times. He was noticeably more physical on the forecheck with even Bunting and Kerfoot last night.

 

[Stephen]

I like the idea getting a motivated Kane on a prove it deal would be a great add even if for just the rest of the year

I don't like the idea. He seems to have a looming bad guy persona in the locker room wherever he goes and one of the things Toronto has tried to foster is a good close knit room. The juice has never been worth the squeeze with Kane. Trouble in Winnipeg, dysfunction in Buffalo, a lot of drama in San Jose.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Very true.

To some it means knuckle dragging goons.

To others its about playing hard, and physical, and fearless and players that don't disappear when the going gets tough.

Maybe not knuckle dragging, but our tough guys, Clifford, Simmons, Ritchie, Holl did nothing to slow down Avs or change the focus of the game. Not one thing. No punishment, no threats, no knockdown, no scrums, nothing.
Keefe hasn't got the guts or smarts to use intimidation occasionally.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

I'd rather we try the Kane experience sooner rather than later, just to see if he can have a beautiful comeback story or not, I'm worried about him messing with the Teams chemistry so we would have to have some serious interviews beforehand.

Where it's known there is no three strikes, it's one and you're on your ass, doyou really want to come back to the league? Redeem yourself? Well here is your opportunity.

Keep your head down, do your job, cause no issues and he could fill such a vital role for us it would be amazing.

But I'd rather find out now than closer to the post season and he ruins the good vibes of the locker room.

On top of him a hard hitting 3rd pairing D would be nice.

 

[Anthrax442]

I'd rather we try the Kane experience sooner rather than later, just to see if he can have a beautiful comeback story or not, I'm worried about him messing with the Teams chemistry so we would have to have some serious interviews beforehand.

Where it's known there is no three strikes, it's one and you're on your ass, doyou really want to come back to the league? Redeem yourself? Well here is your opportunity.

Keep your head down, do your job, cause no issues and he could fill such a vital role for us it would be amazing.

But I'd rather find out now than closer to the post season and he ruins the good vibes of the locker room.

On top of him a hard hitting 3rd pairing D would be nice.

worked with Ho Sang

 

[ACC1224]

I'd rather we try the Kane experience sooner rather than later, just to see if he can have a beautiful comeback story or not, I'm worried about him messing with the Teams chemistry so we would have to have some serious interviews beforehand.

Where it's known there is no three strikes, it's one and you're on your ass, doyou really want to come back to the league? Redeem yourself? Well here is your opportunity.

Keep your head down, do your job, cause no issues and he could fill such a vital role for us it would be amazing.

But I'd rather find out now than closer to the post season and he ruins the good vibes of the locker room.

On top of him a hard hitting 3rd pairing D would be nice.

I’d be more concerned he’d keep his ahead down initially and then after the trade deadline reverts to his old ways and becomes disruptive.

He’s an easy pass IMO.

 

[ACC1224]

worked with Ho Sang

I don’t think he’d take an AHL contract

 

[Anthrax442]

I don’t think he’d take an AHL contract

No, he is much more established. I don't like Kane, but for the short term he would provide us that sandpaper we need.

 

[ACC1224]

No, he is much more established. I don't like Kane, but for the short term he would provide us that sandpaper we need.

Yeah that he would bring. I don’t see a need for more toughness myself.

 

[darrylsittler27]

With Ritchie, Simmonds, Clifford and then Spezza and Bunting it's yes...upfront. The defense ? No way, Muzzin aint enough back there for the playoff wars.

 

[Dreakmur]

Maybe not knuckle dragging, but our tough guys, Clifford, Simmons, Ritchie, Holl did nothing to slow down Avs or change the focus of the game. Not one thing. No punishment, no threats, no knockdown, no scrums, nothing.
Keefe hasn't got the guts or smarts to use intimidation occasionally.

It’s less a personnel problem and more a culture problem.

 

[ottomaddox]

I said they are not tough enough, but were Pittsburgh tough when they won their recent cups? I think they were tough in character and will. I hope TOR finds that more than anything.

 

[Dreakmur]

I said they are not tough enough, but were Pittsburgh tough when they won their recent cups? I think they were tough in character and will. I hope TOR finds that more than anything.

That’s exactly it. You don’t need to hit and fight… but you cannot be intimidated. That’s not even where I think we lack toughness, as only a few of our players really back off the physicality. It’s the mental toughness that we lack. The group is so fragile emotionally.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Team needs more backbone and grit from its core players incl Matty Mitch Willy Rielly and JT .. it also needs more toughness and strength from backend .. need a top 4 D like Jakob with strength and power and a VET defensive dman for 3rd pair who can make things rough for da Kuch's and Marchand's of this world .. without both occurring it will be 1 and done again for this core

 

[Its not your fault]

Agree and disagree. Nylander's willingness to engage and strength on the puck have progressed more than the other core players, but you can't change a tiger's stripes. They will never be physically imposing players and don't necessarily have to be. Agree that you need more from them though.

Realistically you have to better insulate them. Love the player but Bunting cannot be your most physical top 9 forward and we've seen in year's past that a tough 4th line does not equate to overall team toughness.

IMO 2LW and 4RD are the primary areas of need without changing the entire line/pair's identity.

Pretty sure a few years ago Marner put on 5 pounds and lost a step to start the season. Genetic will give so much unless they train 24/7 and that's unreasonable.

 

[kevsh]

Why on earth would you want the guy with the best hands on the team (league?) who also has battled wrist issues in the past scrapping? That’s for the plugs.

I figured someone would respond this way after I posted, so my mistake for not clarifying. I don't want Matthews to fight, I want him to not skate away like a frightened turtle. Big difference.

If he was confident in his ability to throw down it would make opposing players like Dubois think twice about tackling him to the ice. Fighting is all about gone from the game but it's hockey 101 that a player is expected to stand up for himself when challenged, and that goes a long way to gaining respect from both teammates and opponents.

 

[Aashir]

They may not be. But physicality isn’t why they lost last series….

 

[Coachcorner]

With Ritchie, Simmonds, Clifford and then Spezza and Bunting it's yes...upfront. The defense ? No way, Muzzin aint enough back there for the playoff wars.

I'm bout that sire and you already knew hockey.

We might get a soulja on our back end at the deadline.

Also uh, if a leafs is getting an evander kane, they will get rid of a ritchie. But that there is not happening with these two gangstas.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Kane - kadri - matthews

 

[ShaneFalco]

I figured someone would respond this way after I posted, so my mistake for not clarifying. I don't want Matthews to fight, I want him to not skate away like a frightened turtle. Big difference.

If he was confident in his ability to throw down it would make opposing players like Dubois think twice about tackling him to the ice. Fighting is all about gone from the game but it's hockey 101 that a player is expected to stand up for himself when challenged, and that goes a long way to gaining respect from both teammates and opponents.

Agreed. He is the leader of this team. Show some push-back rather than laughing