Team Toughness

[Isaac Nootin]

That is why NYI's "Identity line" is so successful and impactful because its not 1 man toughness but goes toward team toughness.

That line is absolute trash this year, especially considering they pay them a combined 7.5 million. That's essentially what the Leafs pay their 3rd and 4th line combined.

 

[thusk]

Toughness for me is not about hit and strenght, its about being ready to pay the price, be ready to take a hit to give more time to your teamate to be open, taking hit because you go to the net.

Bunting is not big but do all those thing, i can compare him to blake coleman

Thats why for me the #1 target should be pavelski if hes available. Dustin brown can be an other good option

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

We've seen this team play physical. They just don't seem to do it consistently. At the beginning of the 1st round last year we were talking about how physical Auston was playing and that he is becoming a different player. One who has figured it out and who could become that big, 2 way, dominant power forward in the league and get the job done. Where did it go the last few games, when it mattered most? Where did Simmonds go? Sandin wilted and played scared etc etc.

I dont think we necessarily have to add more toughness. We just need to bring the effort on the forecehck consistently and to stop folding up like cheap suits. I think we have the pieces to play strong 2 way, grinding 2 way hockey. We've seen all of Simmonds, Ritchie, Clifford, Bunting, Matthews, Spezza, Kerfoot, Tavares, Muzzin, Rielly, Sandin, Liljegren, Muzzin play physical. They have the ability. Mikheyev, Engvall, Kampf, Kase and Holl have some size and need to finish checks as well.

As long as this group can just dial it in every night and play the way we know that they can, consistent effort, lots of pressure on the forecheck, finish checks and block shots, this team can get over the hump. They should have been able to the last 3 playoffs rounds.

 

[crump]

Toughness/liability quotient will be on display tonight. Ritchie, Kadri, leading the parade.

 

[thusk]

We've seen this team play physical. They just don't seem to do it consistently. At the beginning of the 1st round last year we were talking about how physical Auston was playing and that he is becoming a different player. One who has figured it out and who could become that big, 2 way, dominant power forward in the league and get the job done. Where did it go the last few games, when it mattered most? Where did Simmonds go? Sandin wilted and played scared etc etc.

I dont think we necessarily have to add more toughness. We just need to bring the effort on the forecehck consistently and to stop folding up like cheap suits. I think we have the pieces to play strong 2 way, grinding 2 way hockey. We've seen all of Simmonds, Ritchie, Clifford, Bunting, Matthews, Spezza, Kerfoot, Tavares, Muzzin, Rielly, Sandin, Liljegren, Muzzin play physical. They have the ability. Mikheyev, Engvall, Kampf, Kase and Holl have some size and need to finish checks as well.

As long as this group can just dial it in every night and play the way we know that they can, consistent effort, lots of pressure on the forecheck, finish checks and block shots, this team can get over the hump. They should have been able to the last 3 playoffs rounds.

Its not about player unable to play with toughness, sometime you just need a guy who will serve as a motor for the rest of the team.

Just take exemple with tampa, they was enought talented to beat any team but they trade for coleman and goodrow. 2 player playing with toughness and intensity and that give the small little thing tampa needed to bgo at next level and be a succesful team.

Toronto is build in a similar way of tampa bay, maybe it the same thing with toronto and its what they need to reach the next level

 

[Nylander88]

It's a hard question to answer, when you don't know if Ritchie or Clifford are in the lineup. With both of them in we're a very rough team. Few teams have 3 guys like Simmonds, Clifford, Ritchie in the lineup that can be "heavyweight" fighters. However if Ritchie and Clifford are both on the bench.... we're considerably softer. I think we need one of Clifford or Ritchie in the lineup over a guy like Engvall. Playoff lineup of:
Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase
Clifford/Ritchie-Spezza-Simmonds
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott/Lily

Yes I think this team has the potential to be tough enough. When the temperature ramps up, having a 4th line with two tough guys on it is really going to serve a purpose imo. I do think this team is "team tough" more so than last seasons...just in the sense that we seem to have guys that're less "passive". Bunting is fearless and annoying, he will help drag people into the battle. Kase has no regard for his own safety, and flys into those hard areas. Kampf is sneaky physical in my opinion, and goes to tough areas and uses good body positioning (he's also jacked according to teammates). Matthews & Nylander are much more engaged as they age. Nylander goes to those hard areas and Matthews was one of our leading hitters against Montreal. He's also okay giving a shot or two. He was in a few playoff scrums last season, his battle with Dubois this year, cross checks against Yamamoto last game etc. Spezza is a warrior and will do whatever it takes when the games matter. Also not afraid to stand up when absolutely called upon. Kerfoot plays a fearless style similar to Kase, which has shone through in the playoffs. Mikheyev seems a little more sure of himself in his 3rd season, and seems more involved in the corners. Our D core is pretty soft, but Rielly and Brodie don't really take too much bs, Muzzin-Holl would be our toughest/big body pairing, and Sandin & Dermott aren't tough, but they've sure shown an ability to surprise with the odd big hit. All in all this team I think is better than years past for playoff hockey, but I think we need one of Clifford/Ritchie in over an Engvall once those games start

 

[kevsh]

I keep waiting for the day Matthews doesn't look like George Constanza running out of a burning apartment whenever he gets into any situation that even hints a fist could be thrown.

Honestly, I can't say I've ever seen a player more terrified of getting into a fight; It's embarrassing. I said last year that Simmonds should pull him aside after practice and give him a primer on how to hockey fight. Probably take a few sessions but at least Matty will get some confidence instead of skating away like his pants were on fire.

On the plus side, he's at least being using his body effectively to push players off the puck and even throws the odd check. But toughness is not in his vocabulary.

 

[ULF_55]

At what position and how up the line-up do people want to see this toughness?

I have been quite pleased with some of the top 6 fighting through and battling for the puck possession.

Dropping the gloves is so rare in the NHL today, and post season other than the Islanders there isn't much.

And if it is missing today, isn't it missing next season as well?

If you want to add toughness, it should be a longer term rental, and someone who isn't an idiot with a history of being an idiot.

 

[notbias]

I keep waiting for the day Matthews doesn't look like George Constanza running out of a burning apartment whenever he gets into any situation that even hints a fist could be thrown.

Honestly, I can't say I've ever seen a player more terrified of getting into a fight; It's embarrassing. I said last year that Simmonds should pull him aside after practice and give him a primer on how to hockey fight. Probably take a few sessions but at least Matty will get some confidence instead of skating away like his pants were on fire.

On the plus side, he's at least being using his body effectively to push players off the puck and even throws the odd check. But toughness is not in his vocabulary.

Has he ever skated away? Not fighting and skating away are different.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I can't believe I'm saying this but a 1 year deal for this season for Evander Kane would fill a huge hole and give our line up a ton of depth, with little risk involved. Then all we need is a solid number 4 to replace holl.

 

[CelticDruid]

I can't believe I'm saying this but a 1 year deal for this season for Evander Kane would fill a huge hole and give our line up a ton of depth, with little risk involved. Then all we need is a solid number 4 to replace holl.

Kane requires some kind of help, and maybe Dubas could give him a fresh start for league minimum.

We could always ship him to the minors if it all goes up in smoke.

A power forward on the left of Mathews would increase our chances of winning a round or two.

I'm all for giving another human being a chance at redemption.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

More than tough I just want us to get through one playoff series without an injury or suspension to a core player on this team. No more people losing their cool and no more freak injuries knocking our best players out for just long enough that they can’t come back to play when we inevitably lose the series.

 

[All Mod Cons]

It's a tricky one. The easiest way to ammend this is for the guys to actually stick up for themselves. Matthews getting ragdolled consistently and laughing/not pushing back has to stop. The refs won't call it by the book, we've known that for years and years, so have some pride and look after yourself.

You think Spezza likes fighting? You think Crosby, Kucherov, Malkin, MacKinnon like fighting?

Our core guys have to be tougher. It's the easiest way to solve the problem. Cross check/elbow, Jesus face wash someone. Wrestle someone. Do something. If the Leafs start this playoffs, they'll win the whole damn thing because it would absolutely paralyze the NHL with shock.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Its not about player unable to play with toughness, sometime you just need a guy who will serve as a motor for the rest of the team.

Just take exemple with tampa, they was enought talented to beat any team but they trade for coleman and goodrow. 2 player playing with toughness and intensity and that give the small little thing tampa needed to bgo at next level and be a succesful team.

Toronto is build in a similar way of tampa bay, maybe it the same thing with toronto and its what they need to reach the next level

That's what Ritchie, Bunting, Simmonds and Clifford were brought in for.

Like I said Simmonds stopped playing as a physically intimidating player for us half way through the playoffs last year. He needs to constant if he's not in a scoring role anymore. Ritchie needs to start making some sort of impact. Bunting has a good motor and seems to bring it every night.

 

[Eye Test]

I’d like a big tough RD but I’m more impressed with the overall team energy/toughness displayed this year minus the first bit, so I voted yes. Something clicked this year and I’m very happy for it.

 

[123offtheglass]

Team seems physical enough for playoffs. They could benefit by adding more though on RD, but not just some goon

 

[Knies iT]

At what position and how up the line-up do people want to see this toughness?

I have been quite pleased with some of the top 6 fighting through and battling for the puck possession.

Dropping the gloves is so rare in the NHL today, and post season other than the Islanders there isn't much.

And if it is missing today, isn't it missing next season as well?

If you want to add toughness, it should be a longer term rental, and someone who isn't an idiot with a history of being an idiot.

2LW and 2nd pair RD ideally. Needs to be a top 9 or top 4 improvement for it to be effective.

RE toughness definition: fighting is a minor part of the equation. Mostly eluding to being a more physically imposing team, initiating physicality instead of constantly reacting to it, and having these pieces play higher in your lineup so you have waves of physical play throughout the game.

Take tonight vs. Colorado for example. Watching the Leafs get cycled to exhaustion shift after shift without any cycle-killing defenders outside of Muzzin is brutal. You need at least one additional defender that can staple a player to the boards or drop someone instead of waving sticks around with fly by's. This is the biggest issue I see, as well as the Leafs lack of a physical forecheck being another.

 

[rocketman588]

The physical toughness of the team is relatively fine

The biggest issue is that their mental state has been shattered since the first bruins series and they get PTSD any time they need to close out a playoff series or lead a game 4-1

The unfortunate part is that there's no real fix they just need to figure it out

 

[34]

Leafs really need to sign Evander Kane.

 

[IrishInOntario]

If we're adding toughness it MUST come in the form of players that play a regular shift and enhance the lineup. If it's not both of those things, I'm not interested.

Below is the type of functional "toughness" I'd be looking to add to the roster.

Boone Jenner
Age: 28
Height: 6'2
Weight: 208lbs
Goals: 12
Assists: 8
Contract: 3.75 million (expiring)

Lawson Crouse
Age: 24
Height: 6"4
Weight: 215lbs
Goals: 8
Assists 8
Contract: 1.5 million (expiring)

Max Domi
Age: 26
Height: 5'10
Weight: 194lbs
Goals: 8
Assists: 8
Contract: 5.3 million (expiring)

Vladislav Gavrikov
Age: 26
Height: 6'3
Weight: 213lbs
Goals: 2
Assists: 14
Contract: 2.8 million (1 more year)

David Savard
Age: 31
Height: 6'2
Weight: 234lbs
Goals: 1
Assists: 8
Contract: 3.5 million (3 more years)

Scott Mayfield
Age: 29
Height: 6'5
Weight: 223lbs
Goals: 1
Assists: 4
Contract: 1.45 million (1 more year)

 

[Cotton]

Boston’s pursuing Crouse.

We are going to be facing one of Tampa, Florida or Boston in the post season, all three have a level of grit we lack that’s necessary for a playoff run.

Crouse would be a good addition for us, and as controversial as it might be, Evander Kane would be a huge plus if he could just figure his shit out, I’d roll those dice.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Boston’s pursuing Crouse.

We are going to be facing one of Tampa, Florida or Boston in the post season, all three have a level of grit we lack that’s necessary for a playoff run.

Crouse would be a good addition for us, and as controversial as it might be, Evander Kane would be a huge plus if he could just figure his shit out, I’d roll those dice.

I'd take Crouse, but I'd rather Jenner because he gives you more offensively. We also need a mean, "separator", who acts as a cycle breaker by playing heavy below the goal line. We actually lost of that when Bogosian moved on. He was excellent at stapling guys to the end boards and breaking up the cycle. A Savard / Mayfield type would be great to get similar things from. I don't think a Manson, or some of the other names we hear, will be available. Holl needs to be moved down / out of the lineup. Despite his size, he's not a "seperator".

 

[LaPlante94]

Be careful saying toughness around here. People might think you mean a Colton Orr instead of a guy who just battles below the goal line and can protect the puck very well and around the net.



Even though guys who can bring this is what we have always meant

 

[meefer]

Evander Kane, he'd be a great add if he could figure his life out. I don't know if he can. Were I the Leafs, and I have no idea if this is possible should Kane's contract be terminated, I'd contact Milstein and ask for permission to interview Kane prior to a signing. I'd send Dubas, Greg Harden (their clinical superstar phycologist) and Wayne Simmonds (who joined Kane on the HDA in '20) to sit down with Kane and Milstein and have a chat. I'd lay the cards on table: Marlies contract only to start, guidance from Harden, prove your professionalism, earn your way to a deal with the Leafs, see how he responds and evaluate. It could all go sideways, it could be a huge benefit, but I can see the Leafs - an organization that appears to be genuinely concerned about the wellbeing of their players - as being one of the better landing spots for a troubled player such as Kane. I'd use Harden's expertise to separate the wheat from the chaff in this, buoyed by Simmonds input from knowing Kane. Dubas would have to make the final call.

If Kane and Milstein said no to this, I'd wish them well and say buh-bye.

 

[Stinger8]

Evander Kane, he'd be a great add if he could figure his life out. I don't know if he can. Were I the Leafs, and I have no idea if this is possible should Kane's contract be terminated, I'd contact Milstein and ask for permission to interview Kane prior to a signing. I'd send Dubas, Greg Harden (their clinical superstar phycologist) and Wayne Simmonds (who joined Kane on the HDA in '20) to sit down with Kane and Milstein and have a chat. I'd lay the cards on table: Marlies contract only to start, guidance from Harden, prove your professionalism, earn your way to a deal with the Leafs, see how he responds and evaluate. It could all go sideways, it could be a huge benefit, but I can see the Leafs - an organization that appears to be genuinely concerned about the wellbeing of their players - as being one of the better landing spots for a troubled player such as Kane. I'd use Harden's expertise to separate the wheat from the chaff in this, buoyed by Simmonds input from knowing Kane. Dubas would have to make the final call.

If Kane and Milstein said no to this, I'd wish them well and say buh-bye.

I like the idea getting a motivated Kane on a prove it deal would be a great add even if for just the rest of the year