Team Toughness II

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Cally always had protection...Bickel, Rupp, Prust, even Dubi...now he has Zucc.

I would say Zucc is our grittiest player

its pretty sad... Sather im shocked didnt do something to address the lack of grit on this team.. maybe a TooToo for Pouliot trade might happen

 

[ponzu4u]

There was a play, early in the 3rd of last night's game, that pretty much perfectly sums up my frustrations with the Rangers this year.

D. Moore ended up in a little cross-check battle with Pysk(?) behind the net. The whistle blows, and as they're going at it, Weber comes over and he and Pysk both rough up Moore against the glass.

Now, the play had just been in the Sabres zone, so it's not like the rest of the team was on the other side of the ice. Also, the whistle was blown so it's not like this was going on behind the play.

In my opinion, it takes way too long for a single Ranger to even enter the frame as the two Sabres work over Moore. Then, the first Ranger who does, Boyle, already has a Sabre in a headlock, which, with simple arithmetic, means that while this is all going on, there is a Ranger player on the ice who isn't even paired off with anyone.

Then, when more Rangers players skate over, could they possibly look more disinterested as they halfheartedly kind of hold the nearest Sabre jersey.

And look, I'm really not trying to make a huge deal out of this, just point out an example of what's been bothering me with this team all season.

Watch how quickly and aggressively the majority of this team skates into a scrum. Watch how quickly they skate over to an opponent after he lays a big hit on a ranger.

There just seems to be this weird vibe of complacency or non-aggresion or something going on with the team this year, and considering the path to the Cup this year likely leads through Boston and then against one of either LAK, SJ, or ANA, that worries me.

And the reason it worries me is that our offense is not good enough to consistently over-power teams while avoiding the rough stuff. It's one thing now during the regular season when it's one game and then you don't see them again for months. But in the playoffs, the ice gets smaller, the checking gets tougher and the hits get harder, and that's just not a style of play I see the Rangers getting better at.

So waffle, maybe that answers your post a bit. I'm not saying this team needs to be immediately blown up, but, as presently constituted, I just don't see how you can look at this roster and the way they've played this season, and expect that they will be able to "improve" on that play in a seven game, grind it out, playoff series. Unfortunately, and yes it's my and only my opinion, I don't really see the roster as is right now as a legitimate Stanley Cup threat. Being the toughness thread, I will advocate that improving team toughness could potentially help this team compete, particularly come extra-physical playoff time. In a different thread, I'm happy to discuss the team's need to find more consistent goal scoring and offense, because I actually do think that's probably a more pressing concern for the team right now.

 

[surf]

All these threads and getting Chris Neil in a trade hasn't come up once? I bet he could be had but not sure what he makes?

 

[Orr Nightmare]

There was a play, early in the 3rd of last night's game, that pretty much perfectly sums up my frustrations with the Rangers this year.

D. Moore ended up in a little cross-check battle with Pysk(?) behind the net. The whistle blows, and as they're going at it, Weber comes over and he and Pysk both rough up Moore against the glass.

Now, the play had just been in the Sabres zone, so it's not like the rest of the team was on the other side of the ice. Also, the whistle was blown so it's not like this was going on behind the play.

In my opinion, it takes way too long for a single Ranger to even enter the frame as the two Sabres work over Moore. Then, the first Ranger who does, Boyle, already has a Sabre in a headlock, which, with simple arithmetic, means that while this is all going on, there is a Ranger player on the ice who isn't even paired off with anyone.

Then, when more Rangers players skate over, could they possibly look more disinterested as they halfheartedly kind of hold the nearest Sabre jersey.

And look, I'm really not trying to make a huge deal out of this, just point out an example of what's been bothering me with this team all season.

Watch how quickly and aggressively the majority of this team skates into a scrum. Watch how quickly they skate over to an opponent after he lays a big hit on a ranger.

There just seems to be this weird vibe of complacency or non-aggresion or something going on with the team this year, and considering the path to the Cup this year likely leads through Boston and then against one of either LAK, SJ, or ANA, that worries me.

And the reason it worries me is that our offense is not good enough to consistently over-power teams while avoiding the rough stuff. It's one thing now during the regular season when it's one game and then you don't see them again for months. But in the playoffs, the ice gets smaller, the checking gets tougher and the hits get harder, and that's just not a style of play I see the Rangers getting better at.

So waffle, maybe that answers your post a bit. I'm not saying this team needs to be immediately blown up, but, as presently constituted, I just don't see how you can look at this roster and the way they've played this season, and expect that they will be able to "improve" on that play in a seven game, grind it out, playoff series. Unfortunately, and yes it's my and only my opinion, I don't really see the roster as is right now as a legitimate Stanley Cup threat. Being the toughness thread, I will advocate that improving team toughness could potentially help this team compete, particularly come extra-physical playoff time. In a different thread, I'm happy to discuss the team's need to find more consistent goal scoring and offense, because I actually do think that's probably a more pressing concern for the team right now.

This team is nothing more than .500


On that particular play McCormick and Scott were on the ice...the guys on our team were looking to get off the ice not protect anyone else when they can't protect themselves.

Reminds me of when we had those soft teams with Rozi, Redden, Gomez, Drury, etc...

If Sather wasn't asleep...these are some of the players waived so far this year:

Ryan Stanton rugged damn that can play.
Tootoo not a real fan but he would still be our toughest guy.
Kaleta crazy ******* and dirty.
Keaton Ellerby big dman.
Lane Macdermid pure protection.
Luke Gazdic just beat up Patrick Bordelau - complete shock

Future moves:

Jack Nevins FA contract
Carter Sandlak FA contract

 

[Orr Nightmare]

All these threads and getting Chris Neil in a trade hasn't come up once? I bet he could be had but not sure what he makes?

Neil would have been great 5 years ago...too old now.

 

[chosen]

My point would be that it's not just one of the other, it's a mix of the two. And it's not an accident. It is something that Boston and several other teams work on as a primary focus: drafting, signing or acquiring players that will give them the best mix of Skill and Toughness.

People here (not you necessarily) make it seem like this is some miracle that teams stumble into. It's about the focus and mentality of your organization.

With these discussions I find myself thinking about Rick Middleton. He was a classic Rangers forward, skilled but on the small side. And he was traded to Boston and became a much more effective player.

NOT exclusively because he was surrounded by a much tougher team. He worked at it. Rounded out his game and became a much more complete player. But if we ignore the reality that his team mates played a role in his success, we're continuing to kid ourselves.

Middleton was a great example of a solid skill player surrounded by team mates who not only had his back, but also had the ability to punish opponents simply for being on the ice.

When was the last time the Rangers had that kind of team?

The Middleton trade was as bad as they ever made. It seemed incredibly stupid and it was.

Middleton may have flourished had he remained. Hard to prove in either direction.

Rangers had that kind of team in 94.

 

[surf]

Even if Neil is a little old he would still bring a physical presence that is badly needed for me it would depend on how long his contract is

 

[Mikos87]

Even if Neil is a little old he would still bring a physical presence that is badly needed for me it would depend on how long his contract is

Chris Neil had a limited NTC on his old deal and the Rangers are one of the team he wouldn't accept a trade to. The way he played in the Ottawa series is the kind of play that is desperately missing from the current Ranger team. Effort, hunger, drive, toughness.

A younger version of Chris Neil is what the Rangers need.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

If anyone was feeling down about the Rangers lack of toughness... I just read a group project paper a girl in my group submitted. Part of her section reads "...customers make up a big part of inventory in starbucks..."

...

Just letting you all know... things can be worse...

 

[Leetch66]

Jack Nevins also signed with Habs early this week ...3 year deal .

 

[TankLarkin]

Cally always had protection...Bickel, Rupp, Prust, even Dubi...now he has Zucc.

I would say Zucc is our grittiest player

Zucc is are grittiest team guy aside from Dorsett. It's always Zucc who will turn around after the whistle and give a guy a little stick, bump or lip if he feels a teammate was dissed. Put his heart/mentality in Boyle's body and we got something.

 

[Barnaby]

Even if Neil is a little old he would still bring a physical presence that is badly needed for me it would depend on how long his contract is

This team needs guys who are young and hungry. Guys who are out to make a name and reputation for themselves.

Neils had a nice career, but that's not where'd I'd be looking to go at this point.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Zucc is are grittiest team guy aside from Dorsett. It's always Zucc who will turn around after the whistle and give a guy a little stick, bump or lip if he feels a teammate was dissed. Put his heart/mentality in Boyle's body and we got something.

I give Zucc credit for doing it...but on the flip side, it's also easy to chirp and agitate when you know that no one in the league will fight you. Like Chara is not going to fight him and Zucc knows it, which in a way gives him a free pass.

 

[surf]

All I'm saying about Neil is even at his age I would much rather have him than Pyatt or Pouliet on a nightly basis...I'm not so sure the Rangers are on his no trade list I do remember we offered him a contract when he was a FA and turned us down

 

[Riverdale]

Why can't we ever get a guy like Neil when he is young?

 

[surf]

So tonight if Cam Janssen takes 4 shifts and hits everything that moves and throws a few elbows would we want Pouliet or Pyatt have to step to him or have Neil in his advanced age talk to him...Lets talk around 10 30 if we have some fireworks

 

[eco's bones]

So tonight if Cam Janssen takes 4 shifts and hits everything that moves and throws a few elbows would we want Pouliet or Pyatt have to step to him or have Neil in his advanced age talk to him...Lets talk around 10 30 if we have some fireworks

Used to love to watch Janssen's fights. He had a motor and could go forever. Beat a lot of bigger guys. The fights with Prust were classics. The fights with Rypien even more so. In the last couple years something has happened to that motor. He can not keep up like he used to and he hasn't been winning very many. Still tougher than anyone the Rangers have but not really much of a hockey player.

 

[Barnaby]

So tonight if Cam Janssen takes 4 shifts and hits everything that moves and throws a few elbows would we want Pouliet or Pyatt have to step to him or have Neil in his advanced age talk to him...Lets talk around 10 30 if we have some fireworks

Of course we'd take Neil for free over Pyatt, but that's not the deal. He's advanced in age, he'd cost decent assets to acquire, and I'm pretty sure he has a NTC. Add to that he's 34, and has 2 years left on his deal after this one and I'm not exactly pining over him. He seems like a Sens lifer anyway. He's taken less to stay there in the past. It seems like there is a loyalty there. I just don't see him moving.

This team needs big, young, hungry players who are out to make names for themselves. Unfortunately, those guys aren't always easy to acquire. I don't think anyone is thrilled with this teams bottom 6 or overall team toughness, but there are only so many realistic options that you have mid-season.

I feel like you keep preaching about adding toughness, and no one is disagreeing with you in that regard. We just aren't jumping out of our seats to get a 34 year old Neil who would cost assets and is in year 1 of a 3 year deal. Or like your proposal on the trade board - trade our 23 year old #1 defenseman in a completely unrealistic trade for Lucic.

 

[surf]

Barnaby that's just me...I would do anything to get Lucic here...I know that trade would never ever happen but its pretty close value wise because both teams fan said hell no...Neil is a lifer in OTT but I still love his nasty game...no matter what his age is...being a life long fan of this team its very hard to watch us get pushed around and take cheap shots with no response I guess its a pride thing..watching the likes of Pouliet and Pyatt suck the life out of me

 

[Barnaby]

Barnaby that's just me...I would do anything to get Lucic here...I know that trade would never ever happen but its pretty close value wise because both teams fan said hell no...Neil is a lifer in OTT but I still love his nasty game...no matter what his age is...being a life long fan of this team its very hard to watch us get pushed around and take cheap shots with no response I guess its a pride thing..watching the likes of Pouliet and Pyatt suck the life out of me

I hear what you're saying. I love Lucic.

It doesn't need to necessarily be a front line forward though. Just a couple years ago this team was tough, and had an identity with guys like Avery/Prust…

 

[Crease]

They are a team full of tuxedo-wearing, public-appearance-making, gentlemen. Led by a captain who is more concerned about a rival's dental work than the fact that he took a penalty in OT.

 

[Mikos87]

Cam Jansen no hands it in last night after Falk refused a fight with him. Falk did not step up and circumstances led to a 2 goal lead being lost.

Marc Staal takes a headshot.

You can look at both plays and say that hey it's a bang bang play that caught the Rangers on the losing end of the draw.

But if guys had stepped up, and you iced actual deterrents, then I believe we'd see a different set of circumstances out there.

Last night was a total lack of resiliency.

You had a grown man cry out there. Love the fact that he cares, but as they say, there's no crying in the majors.

 

[egelband]

not saying it was the right way to go about it, but i appreciate what thornton did to back up loui eriksson yesterday. i bet the pens or any other team thinks twice about taking a cheap shot like orpik did.
i know it doesn't take out the possibility 100% but it HAS to lower the odds. if the rangers had a thornton or two...a couple real wildcards...opponents would 'mind their ps and qs'. it's just common sense.

and as someone correctly pointed out a few days ago on this board, the less physical guys on this ranger team might stand a little taller.

I AM SO TIRED OF THE RANGERS LOOKING TO THE REFS AND SHANAHAN FOR PROTECTION.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

This team certainly lacks physical toughness, but its the lack of mental toughness that is most concerning.

They fold like a cheap suit at the first signs of adversity.

 

[The Gloaming]

This team certainly lacks physical toughness, but its the lack of mental toughness that is most concerning.

They fold like a cheap suit at the first signs of adversity.

This is the real problem right here.

Before they go out and get "tough players," they need to find players with mental fortitude and resiliency.

Our captain doesn't even exemplify that anymore. It starts from him and trickles down.