Team Toughness II

[True Blue]

You don't know if that's true though. The Rangers might be in a position that having an extra center in the lineup is needed.

Then again, they might not be. I do know that it is true that there is no obfuscation in my statement. To me, this how is the team is more effective. They need to be harder to play against. Not easier. They need not be the same homogenous line. 2 4th line centers are not necessary on any team. More than one person who can play a physical game is. But all are free to their own conclusions.

The team has enough players that do the same things. They do not nearly have enough that bring the battle to the other team and make them a harder team to play against.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Then again, they might not be. I do know that it is true that there is no obfuscation in my statement. To me, this how is the team is more effective.

On paper I don't disagree with you. I just envision a scenario on the road where having the benefit of an extra center in the lineup could outweigh the benefit of grit.

They need to be harder to play against. Not easier.

The thing is Dorsett takes a lot of bad penalties. If AV drops to 3 lines in a playoff game Carcillo isn't going to see the ice at all. (Boyle, Moore, and Dorsett kill penalties at least...)

They need not be the same homogenous line. 2 4th line centers are not necessary on any team.

Yeah but are Carcillo and Dorsett necessary too? I can't say yes or no. I think a lot depends on who the Rangers play in the playoffs.

More than one person who can play a physical game is. But all are free to their own conclusions.

Boyle can play a physical game too. He can't fight but he has proved to be a good playoff player.

The team has enough players that do the same things.

Like Dorsett and Carcillo?

They do not nearly have enough that bring the battle to the other team and make them a harder team to play against.

Really? So you don't think a line of Boyle Moore Dorsett could grind down another team? I have no idea what your feelings on Boyle are. I don't want assume you don't think he's an effective player. I also don't disagree with you that Dorsett and Carcillo playing is a bad thing in the playoffs. I just think the Rangers need to be smart about the lineups (not that you aren't) and see what the matchups are. This isn't an open and shut decision as it seems like you are trying to make it. It's just not.....

 

[True Blue]

The thing is Dorsett takes a lot of bad penalties. If AV drops to 3 lines in a playoff game Carcillo isn't going to see the ice at all. (Boyle, Moore, and Dorsett kill penalties at least...)

IMO, his bad penalties are a bit overblown. But again, anyone who plays that type of game will have penalty minutes. In a 3 line game, the 4th line will not see any ice time no matter what. And again, Dorsett does kill penalties. AV's history, however, says that he uses 4 lines even in playoffs.

Yeah but are Carcillo and Dorsett necessary too? I can't say yes or no. I think a lot depends on who the Rangers play in the playoffs.

I think that what they bring is more necessary than the duo of what Moore & Boyle bring. Take the 2 of the former and one of the latter and you have a good 4th line.

Boyle can play a physical game too. He can't fight but he has proved to be a good playoff player.

Come now, SoS. You know me much better than that. Do you really think I care if Boyle can fight or not? But I agree, yes he can play a physical game. My view of the perfect 4th line for the Rangers actually has him centering Dorsett and Carcillo.

Like Dorsett and Carcillo?

Like other players who all resemble each other and play the same type of game. The team is homogenous. Dorsett and Carcillo give teams a different look.

Really? So you don't think a line of Boyle Moore Dorsett could grind down another team?

I did not say that. I said that a line that has one of Boyle or Moore and both Dorsett and Carcillo can do more.

I have no idea what your feelings on Boyle are. I don't want assume you don't think he's an effective player.

I actually like him

I also don't disagree with you that Dorsett and Carcillo playing is a bad thing in the playoffs. I just think the Rangers need to be smart about the lineups (not that you aren't) and see what the matchups are. This isn't an open and shut decision as it seems like you are trying to make it. It's just not.....

It is not. I am stating what my view is. They do need to be smart. But being smart sometimes is bringing the battle to the other team.

 

[pld459666]

Yet he continues to play him more than the other 3. Okay.

Boyle has 200 more minutes of ice time than Moore who has more than Dorsett.

Pls

Boyle is 163 mins ahead of Moore with 8 more games played.

At Moore's average of 11:57 that 163 number is actually 52 minutes.

Moore is a faster skater, better on the forecheck and after spending a year away from the game, is JUST 2 points off Boyle's pace. Moore is much more reliable to generate offence off the forecheck than Boyle because he can get to pucks faster and when he does get the puck, he's better equipped to distribute the puck

Boyle is a slow player that is losing his place on the roster not because he sucks. It's because the team needs to have all of their players on the same page in terms of pushing the pace of games.

Boyle is not suited for that.

His PK minutes can be spread out and he's 4th on the team in total FO's taken (1st in winning %) one % point higher than Moore.

From the 4th line he's still getting way to much ES TOI. He should be in the Darroll Powe, Aaron Asham, Daniel Carcillo neighborhood of 7-8 minutes on ES time per game.

with PK duties, Boyle should see no more than 10-11 minutes a game.

for what eh provides, I would be more than happy giving his 7-8 minutes to Dorsett and splitting the PK duties between the rest of the forwards.

Moore - Hagelin - Callahan - Stepan - Dorsett - Zuccs

Not pairings per se, but they all have the same component that Boyle at this stage will never have, a quickness that you cannot teach.

Better to pressure the points and get back into position. Also much more dangerous shorthanded when you have that sort of quickness.

 

[crowder]

Honestly, I've never liked Carcillo. He's always pissed me off to no end. Maybe because he was a Flyer...

I have to say though, while the Rangers are still lacking real grit and toughness right now, I'm pretty happy with what Carcillo has attempted to do since joining the Rangers. I was impressed with how easily he backed up his new team and went at the Flyers regardless of them being his former team. Maybe he's doing what he does best in order to find his niche within the team, but whatever it is, I think its somethin good.

Good for him. I don't completely hate him anymore.

Now if we could just get a little bit more o that...

 

[Ail]

Boyle is 163 mins ahead of Moore with 8 more games played.

At Moore's average of 11:57 that 163 number is actually 52 minutes.

Moore is a faster skater, better on the forecheck and after spending a year away from the game, is JUST 2 points off Boyle's pace. Moore is much more reliable to generate offence off the forecheck than Boyle because he can get to pucks faster and when he does get the puck, he's better equipped to distribute the puck

Boyle is a slow player that is losing his place on the roster not because he sucks. It's because the team needs to have all of their players on the same page in terms of pushing the pace of games.

Boyle is not suited for that.

His PK minutes can be spread out and he's 4th on the team in total FO's taken (1st in winning %) one % point higher than Moore.

From the 4th line he's still getting way to much ES TOI. He should be in the Darroll Powe, Aaron Asham, Daniel Carcillo neighborhood of 7-8 minutes on ES time per game.

with PK duties, Boyle should see no more than 10-11 minutes a game.

for what eh provides, I would be more than happy giving his 7-8 minutes to Dorsett and splitting the PK duties between the rest of the forwards.

Moore - Hagelin - Callahan - Stepan - Dorsett - Zuccs

Not pairings per se, but they all have the same component that Boyle at this stage will never have, a quickness that you cannot teach.

Better to pressure the points and get back into position. Also much more dangerous shorthanded when you have that sort of quickness.

Sorry, I was looking at Kreider's number for TOI.

The points don't matter. Fourth liners are not intended to score, if they do it's a bonus. They are role-players. I don't care about his ability to generate offense. For all this talk of being faster, and distributing the puck, I don't see Moore making a whole lot of plays that stand out or produced scoring chances.

He isn't losing his roster spot, that's your opinion. If he loses it, it will be next year because they think Lindberg is better suited there, not 33 year old Dominic Moore.

Fourth on the team on total FO taken, still first by a large margin on the PK. I'm sure he leads defensive zone face-offs as well by a large margin, but I'm not looking that up. He and Moore are comparable in ES FOs.

If Boyle is getting too much ES ice time, so are his line mates. If he is out there for any length of time beyond his normal duties there is probably a reason for it. It's not like AV is double shifting him.

You guys can wish all you want that Boyle is going away, but the chances are, at least this season, he is not. Sorry.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

To be fair, LA fans thought he was better than Nolan, Clifford and Lewis when he played. He just never got a fair shake and was traded for practically nothing.

Prust was traded multiple times before landing with the Rangers too. Obviously different players but just because another player is under-utilized or valued doesn't necessarily mean he can't thrive somewhere else.

Hows that "to be fair?"

If anything it proves that too many of those types of players in the lineup is not something successful NHL teams usually do. The exact opposite if the argument you're trying to make.

 

[Thirty One]

The LA fans I talk to felt blessed to receive a conditional 7th for Carcillo.

 

[Machinehead]

The LA fans I talk to felt blessed to receive a conditional 7th for Carcillo.

LA fans live in their own reality, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Thirty One]

LA fans live in their own reality, so take that with a grain of salt.

l DON'T TALK TO THE CRAZY ONES, OK?

 

[Machinehead]

Why don't the Rangers take a flier on CC Sabathia? He's 6'7", 300 lbs, and he could certainly use the conditioning over the winter. Best of all, he's better than Parros.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1587387

 

[Leetch66]

If Boyle can fetch us a high 2nd round pick...move him fast . He will be missed by his loyal supporters and some teammates but when you have a chance to recoup well on a 4th liner...it simply has to be done . I think the speed of Moore and the other guys all being quite capable of replacing his minutes....tells us his days as a Ranger are near over . If only his foot speed was just a bit better.....

 

[pld459666]

l DON'T TALK TO THE CRAZY ONES, OK?

Can other people see the ones you do talk to?