Team Toughness II

[Doctyl]

Anyone who says no to adding a Neil for the playoffs proves you have zero hockey sense. I am done with this argument you have no credibility

But you're the only one who seems to be obsessed with Neil.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Anyone who says no to adding a Neil for the playoffs proves you have zero hockey sense. I am done with this argument you have no credibility

There is no point in adding a player that way when we need SCORING AND PUCK MOVING (Mostly goal scoring, preferably sniping or something close to it to help what should be our leading scorers) . Some of the things you say are really awful jokes. You don't just add a player like that because the postseason is a cruel animal. There are much smarter moves to make than adding Neil. Again, call out everyone else but act like you're immortal on these boards when in fact, you're no better than the rest of us posters.

 

[Inferno]

Over a 7 game series, it's a battle of attrition which is a major reason teams win in the playoffs.

meh.

maybe as you get later and later.

Neil isnt impacting the game nearly as much as people think.

frankly i think Carcillo with his mouth can impact it just as much as neil can with his checks.

big deal. neither of them scored, and the Rangers cruised in this one.

 

[Cassano]

We lack a Ryan Clowe type on this team. The trade was bad for two reasons. 1) Clowe got concussed and thus is deemed ineffective for us. 2) The trade was already inflated because he was injury prone, aging, and a rental.

I have to respectfully disagree. Guys like Clowe, Lucic, Clarkson, etc are vastly overrated and often overpaid for what they bring.

The Rangers already have a natural PWF in Kreider, who has been hitting others like a truck. Callahan is one of the most physical players in the league, Dorsett and Carbomb,etc.

The Rangers already have their foundation of a PWF.

Those two factors aside, had we had a Ryan Clowe that hadn't sustained major injuries the past 3 years, one that didn't face 2 concussions to end the season, one that didn't cost as much as he did to trade for... he would have been invaluable to this team.

Speculative at best.

It's not the physical act of fighting that is important. It's sticking up for your team mates, making that bond closer between you and the other guys. Bigger, grittier players, who hit hard (like Chris Neil) wear out other teams during the course of the game... during the course of a playoff series. Having big guys ourselves helps offset some of that. It helps keep some of those players off the ice for 10 minutes because they're in the penalty box for fighting. It throws other teams' players off their game because they're afraid of being hit or have been hit. If you need evidence of that, Boyle was playing the hockey of his life during our playoff series a couple years back. He wasnt the same after Neil hit him.

Sounds like overrated sports/hockey cliches to me.

The best tool to wear down the other team is by outperforming and making the other team run around like goons the whole night.

You need that in a team. Kreider doesn't grind other players out. He doesn't always finish his checks. You think he's physical because of the occasional "ooooo" hit he makes, but that's derived from his strength, not his intent. Guys like Neil add intent to their strength. Callahan hasn't been the grinder and hitter he once was. He's playing a much more offensive game, which is fine, but still doesn't fit the void we have for such a player. Girardi has more or less given up the physical aspect of his game up. Gone are big hits and fights from his vocabulary. He has a family, understandable. Staal's physicality has reduced since his earlier years. Where's the guy who would go toe to toe with a flying Ovechkin? McDonough? He's a joke in terms of physicality. The only guy with the honor of losing to Sidney Crosby in a scrum. I watched him just watch Simmonds after he intentionally ran over Hank a couple games ago. That's not toughness, that's not grit, that's not even demanding respect. Which gives us Moore, Boyle, and Carcillo. Dorsett won't play over one of them, so he's a non factor in the box. That's 1 physical line that plays 8-10 minutes a game. There's only so much they can do.

The only one I agree with you on is Staal, but he's always been a less physical player relative to his size. Other than that, wow I completely disagree with your assessment.

Girardi's given up on physical play? That's why he leads the team in hits?

Kreider on pace for nearly 200 hit season? 20-25g most likely? What more can you ask for?

Callahan slowing down? He is also on pace for 236 hits.......

This team is once again top 10 in total hits..... Far from soft. Grass is greener on the other side, I'm guessing.

 

[Ail]

Anyone who says no to adding a Neil for the playoffs proves you have zero hockey sense. I am done with this argument you have no credibility

lol.

okay.

 

[ecemleafs]

This team is hitting less as a result on the coaching, same as blocked shots.

CBC was talking about it a good deal, and had the numbers to back it up.

hits are a stupid stat anyway because its subjective, doesnt reflect the force of a hit, and tends to be inflated by teams that dont play with the puck as much as the other team.

 

[Cassano]

So the hawks were all talent no grit?

Yes Ricky, the Hawks are ridiculously soft. They were last in the league in hits and 3rd fewest fighting majors last year, yet still obliterated the opposing teams. In fact, the team that came closest to beating them were the 2nd softest team hits wise and 2nd least in fighting majors, the Detroit Red Wings.

 

[surf]

Dumbest post I've ever seen here and I've been here over 10 years..

meh.

maybe as you get later and later.

Neil isnt impacting the game nearly as much as people think.

frankly i think Carcillo with his mouth can impact it just as much as neil can with his checks.

big deal. neither of them scored, and the Rangers cruised in this one.

 

[Raspewtin]

Dumbest post I've ever seen here and I've been here over 10 years..

Neil hit Dominic Moore, the Rangers retaliated and got a penalty.

He literally did nothing else the whole game.

 

[surf]

I didn't think I had to explain myself...but

Carcillo with his mouth has just as much impact on the game than Neil does with his body checking??

Again someone who has never played the game or picked up a hockey stick

Neil hit Dominic Moore, the Rangers retaliated and got a penalty.

He literally did nothing else the whole game.

 

[Raspewtin]

I didn't think I had to explain myself...but

Carcillo with his mouth has just as much impact on the game than Neil does with his body checking??

Again someone who has never played the game or picked up a hockey stick

That I don't believe.

 

[eco's bones]

Exception, not the rule. Their forecheck was ridiculous. they played less games than us as well, more scoring chances. Kings, Chitown. Their entire team is talent. With some man power too. You guys blow toughness way out of proportion. Team needs to be complete. The toughness thing here is a bad joke.




Not the exception at all. Why do you think the Rangers traded Amonte for Matteau and Noonan before the 94 playoffs? It's because Matteau and Noonan had size and were good at winning puck battles. Amonte was just a goal scorer when he was on but when he wasn't on he floated around too much. Can't float in the playoffs. Noonan and Matteau might not score nearly as much but you'd get the same consistent effort from them night after night.

 

[eco's bones]

The Rangers are getting more and more comfortable lately with AV's system. He's not juggling lines. The scoring lines are all stable. Stepan-Nash-Kreider. Richards-Callahan-Hagelin. Brassard-Zuccarello-Pouliot.

If the Rangers could bring in a Neil without disrupting those 3 above lines it would be okay by me. It would give the team more physicality and more edge. We could limit his minutes when we needed to. Neil skates very well and is a heavy, heavy hitter. He can be very distracting to play against-even if he doesn't fight. The Ottawa team that played us in 11-12 barely made it in and then took us to 7 games. We were the Nol 1 team in the east that year. They accomplished that by playing great defense and with physical play and anyone who doesn't remember Chris Neil's impact on that series has a very short memory. The Spezza's, Michalek's disappeared. Alfredsson wasn't that great either. They got as far as they did on grit, clogging up the neutral zone and goaltending. That is the classic way that lesser teams hang in against better teams.

As of now--the season is beginning to wind down. Do we absolutely need to add more grit? Probably not--though it wouldn't hurt if the guy is a legit player. Any combination of Boyle-Moore-Carcillo-Dorsett-Miller will be better than anything we've had for 4th line material the past few years.

IMO the Rangers biggest need if they could add one would be another defender capable of running a pwp. That's not likely to happen either.

 

[tbonenc*]

Exception, not the rule. Their forecheck was ridiculous. they played less games than us as well, more scoring chances. Kings, Chitown. Their entire team is talent. With some man power too. You guys blow toughness way out of proportion. Team needs to be complete. The toughness thing here is a bad joke.




Not the exception at all. Why do you think the Rangers traded Amonte for Matteau and Noonan before the 94 playoffs? It's because Matteau and Noonan had size and were good at winning puck battles. Amonte was just a goal scorer when he was on but when he wasn't on he floated around too much. Can't float in the playoffs. Noonan and Matteau might not score nearly as much but you'd get the same consistent effort from them night after night.

Different game being played today than yesteryear. Much more speed and talent today.

While I do think that teams need toughness, I don't think we need guys that are only here for that purpose. For instance, Neil is a tough guy and will mix it up with anyone, but he is a general liability in a hockey sense.

What I would rather see is a larger defensive group who can keep the front of the net clean. Not the easiest person to find, but a need none the less.

 

[eco's bones]

Different game being played today than yesteryear. Much more speed and talent today.

While I do think that teams need toughness, I don't think we need guys that are only here for that purpose. For instance, Neil is a tough guy and will mix it up with anyone, but he is a general liability in a hockey sense.

What I would rather see is a larger defensive group who can keep the front of the net clean. Not the easiest person to find, but a need none the less.

Keeping in mind that the playoff numbers of guys like Gaborik, Nash, Stepan have really lagged their regular season production. Talent without grit is not going to take you the distance in the playoffs. The Rangers have stabilized their lines at least for now--that is a good sign--means players are finding their roles but hate to say it Nash may be our top forward but he doesn't belong in the same conversation with the best forwards in the league and it's in part because he floats too much. He's either on or he's off. The Rangers are going to need to be solid throughout their lineup and size and strength in the corners and along the walls are essential to playoff type hockey. Harder to score in the playoffs than it is the regular season. You have to fight for every inch of territory.

 

[Inferno]

I didn't think I had to explain myself...but

Carcillo with his mouth has just as much impact on the game than Neil does with his body checking??

Again someone who has never played the game or picked up a hockey stick

yeah ok.

pests have ALWAYS had huge impacts on game.

Sean Avery would get the entire opposition so focused on murdering him that they forgot about the rest of the team.

Chris Neil is a good player, but his "impact" on a game is about as much as what a yappers is.

And yeah, I do play hockey, ive got 2 to play today as a matter of fact.

oh, but thanks for sharing your amazing worldy opinion.

 

[chosen]

This thread has funny stuff.

Neil used to have some value when he contributed in different ways, but the current version is worth very little.

The difference between Dorsett and current Neil is miniscule, if it exists.

 

[Dagoon44]

This thread has funny stuff.

Neil used to have some value when he contributed in different ways, but the current version is worth very little.

The difference between Dorsett and current Neil is miniscule, if it exists.

I can name ten teams who want Neil .. DD not so much

 

[True Blue]

Chris Neil is a good player, but his "impact" on a game is about as much as what a yappers is.

His impact almost won an entire playoff series. Neil had a major effect on how competitive that series was.

 

[surf]

Martin,Boulton and Carkner tonight...Don't get ahead by two or more goals Detroit Rangers..

 

[Ail]

Martin,Boulton and Carkner tonight...Don't get ahead by two or more goals Detroit Rangers..

Yeah, wouldn't want that. They might win the game.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think there needs to be some sort of balance between the go get a goon and dress only Carcilllo. Like I said earlier in the thread, when Dorsett comes back, dress both he and Carcillo and that's a nice start. They both bring an edge to their game.

They still need to find, somewhere, a defenseman or top-9 forward who can at least occasionally drop the gloves ala Sauer from a few years ago. Someone who will stick up for teammates is a valuable asset.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think there needs to be some sort of balance between the go get a goon and dress only Carcilllo. Like I said earlier in the thread, when Dorsett comes back, dress both he and Carcillo and that's a nice start. They both bring an edge to their game.

They still need to find, somewhere, a defenseman or top-9 forward who can at least occasionally drop the gloves ala Sauer from a few years ago. Someone who will stick up for teammates is a valuable asset.

If you drop Boyle from the lineup in order to accommodate Carcillo and Dorsett, I think you're hurting the club. Boyle can at least kill penalties really well.

One idiot being dressed is enough for me.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think Dorsett is the odd man out when he gets back.

 

[NYR Viper]

If you drop Boyle from the lineup in order to accommodate Carcillo and Dorsett, I think you're hurting the club. Boyle can at least kill penalties really well.

One idiot being dressed is enough for me.

Dorsett was a staple on the PK as well before he was hurt. He is a good PKer. It's part of his value to a team.

I don't think Boyle is here past the deadline honestly. His value is high to other teams and his impact is minimal compared to others like Callahan and Girardi who are the other UFA's.

He is a good 4c who was pushed from the 4c spot by Moore.