Team Russia defense in two years

[Atas2000]

It's not cherry picking. It's merely pointing out how wrong you are. You act as if they're playing another sport than Hockey. By your logic, North American coach wouldn't know how to use Russian players in the NHL.

It's all about how wrong you are. You are really thinking there is only one kind of hockey. And yes, north american coaches do not know how to use russian players in the NHL. There was one who knew, but he is retired by now. This is also one of the reasons for the Russians to play at home. They are forced to play the north american game by north american coaches. The coaches don't know a different style. They punish players for not playing that style. They try to change players into the mold of north american hockey. Also there is a huge difference between having 1 or 2 Russians on the team and having an actual russian team with full units of players able to play the style you obviously don't understand.

 

[Atas2000]

Problem is much deeper than just a one bad coach. Since devastation of Soviet Union, the hockey in Russia has not made any progress. We are still on the same level as it was 26 years ago, if not worse. Our naturally talented hockey players we have is not a product of the system, they are simply exclusions of the rule.

They are product of the system. The ptoblem is there are still too many gaps to close on organizational level that were left open after the 90s.

There is teaching and there is developing by single schools and teams, but there is no big system on national level. No organized system of national teams, questionable decisions on lower levels of national teams, lack of centralized accents in development. We get thevraw gems out of schools like we should. We don't shape teams and pools out of them like we should.

 

[Atas2000]

I dont understand under what basis you presume that canadian coaches would make Russia play canadian style. They would be more organized or follow system but this was needed anyway. I am not saying that Russia needs foreign coach but its not like canadian coaches are dumb, its the biggest hockey braintrust by far right now.

Canadian style is not following a system. The BS about the biggest braintrust isn't even funny. There are maybe a couple of top notch canadian coaches. Everybody else are on different levels. Just because the NHL is homerish and doesn't employ foreign coaches doesn't mean NHL coaches are better.

 

[Fantomas]

Canadian style is not following a system. The BS about the biggest braintrust usn't even funny.

Canadian braintrust is mostly a bunch of nepotism appointments.

 

[Jablkon]

Canadian style is not following a system. The BS about the biggest braintrust isn't even funny. There are maybe a couple of top notch canadian coaches. Everybody else are on different levels. Just because the NHL is homerish and doesn't employ foreign coaches doesn't mean NHL coaches are better.

There is maybe reason why they dont employ foreign coaches. They actually did it in the past. Funny that even I as a hypotheticall coach wouldnt push russians to play other style. So why would NHL coaches do that?.. I would understand to that statement in 1987, but right now when almost nobody is able to challenge this team and NHL is miles ahead.....

 

[Jablkon]

It's all about how wrong you are. You are really thinking there is only one kind of hockey. And yes, north american coaches do not know how to use russian players in the NHL. There was one who knew, but he is retired by now. This is also one of the reasons for the Russians to play at home. They are forced to play the north american game by north american coaches. The coaches don't know a different style. They punish players for not playing that style. They try to change players into the mold of north american hockey. Also there is a huge difference between having 1 or 2 Russians on the team and having an actual russian team with full units of players able to play the style you obviously don't understand.

You can easily change it. Start winning BOBs and prove your style works better. You saying like any other league does not do the same. They probably know what leads to success.Maybe I am wrong but I dont remember any top russian player complaining about his play in NHL. Hockey is global, everybody understand to your style and hockey school, so as you understand to swedish,finnish or canadian style.notwithstanding coaches and experts.Btw team Canada is mix of all styles.

 

[Jablkon]

Problem is much deeper than just a one bad coach. Since devastation of Soviet Union, the hockey in Russia has not made any progress. We are still on the same level as it was 26 years ago, if not worse. Our naturally talented hockey players we have is not a product of the system, they are simply exclusions of the rule.

Thats a similar story in Czech Republic. Even if lot of things were done, deep structural and theoretical changes are missing or are not openly evaluated by experts. As a consequence this system does not produce A class coaches. What is even worse that due to a lack of open discussion and intelectual interchange, even analysis of each team performance might go wrong so these responsible guys can get easily into the spinner of wron thoughts, which will appear soon in Czech case imo.

 

[Atas2000]

You can easily change it. Start winning BOBs and prove your style works better. You saying like any other league does not do the same. They probably know what leads to success.Maybe I am wrong but I dont remember any top russian player complaining about his play in NHL. Hockey is global, everybody understand to your style and hockey school, so as you understand to swedish,finnish or canadian style.notwithstanding coaches and experts.Btw team Canada is mix of all styles.

Team Canada doesn't play a mix. They play canadian hockey. As they should. That's what they do best. You miss the point. The point is a canadian coach would not be effective for an all russian team, because he couldn't possible know what kind of hockey they learned. And no, that globalist dream of yours is not real. There is no global hockey. The deteriorating of russian and europaen hockey just lead to north american style taking over. Hockey got worse due to less diversity. Yes, North Americans adopted SOME traits from other schools, but not really much.

As for BOB. Give me BOB without NHL refs and rules first.

And then we still have to overcome the 90s. when Russia is fully recovered from the kids schools on we can talk about comparing. But you also miss the point by trying to make it a competition of styles. There is no best style. they are just dfferent. And they made the game so much more entertaining to watch back in the day. The Czech udefence and counter atacks were something else btw. I have little hope for Europeans to recover their unique styles though because they are so slave to the NHL, but Russia has a good chance still. And that's what Gary probabaly hates.

 

[Jablkon]

Team Canada doesn't play a mix. They play canadian hockey. As they should. That's what they do best. You miss the point. The point is a canadian coach would not be effective for an all russian team, because he couldn't possible know what kind of hockey they learned. And no, that globalist dream of yours is not real. There is no global hockey. The deteriorating of russian and europaen hockey just lead to north american style taking over. Hockey got worse due to less diversity. Yes, North Americans adopted SOME traits from other schools, but not really much.

As for BOB. Give me BOB without NHL refs and rules first.

And then we still have to overcome the 90s. when Russia is fully recovered from the kids schools on we can talk about comparing. But you also miss the point by trying to make it a competition of styles. There is no best style. they are just dfferent. And they made the game so much more entertaining to watch back in the day. The Czech udefence and counter atacks were something else btw. I have little hope for Europeans to recover their unique styles though because they are so slave to the NHL, but Russia has a good chance still. And that's what Gary probabaly hates.

Canada is super versatile. All their three BOB performances were different. Especially 2104 were they easily switched to lets say more defensive game was immpressive. Their players are much more complex than in 90s plus they are further in terms of system fot the leagues, development etc. When you look at any top canadian player they hardly miss anything and these euro advantages as technique, vison, passing are not there anymore because they have it all.

As to overcomming. You and also czechs are overcomming. But I guess its finnally time to say whether both want to overcome it and wheteher they do a lot and quality work to achieve it. We can not blame north america hockey for that.

I dont agree its all about battles of style. Different style will be always there but this is not the case since for exmaple definetely czech and for example russian roster except 1-2players can by replaced by canadian national team players.

All these teams should start to precisely searching for gaps in their system both structural and methodical and start to looking for a way how to win games, especially against Canada. We dont do that, czechs dont know how to win more games but you definetely dont know how to beat Canada despite you would be capable to do it imo. And I dont really know whetheter you have this target both in longterm or shortterm plan. Not even speaking abot czechs whose bosses are just counting some win percantages despite our U17 squad yesterday ended up with score 4:17 from three games against NA teams.

Te charm about that past times were that both czechs and russians had world top guys on benches and they try to be best or chase the best, or at least they did best possible. Thats not the case anymore. I guess its not coincidence that Russia is coached by latvian now and no one in Europe is interested in czech coaches.

Its admirable, that despite ton of national pride comments about how Canada is best hockey country in the world, some awared guys sat together in 1999 and retool its program to generate players and generation which we watching now. Compare to this, its quite low standart that russians have been talking about their Ds for several years and no systematic arrangement was still set up according to some posters here. Its even lower standart that czechs are not able to restructured their junior league despite its on the table for 8? years and its even worse when they have been talking for same period about letting kids play hockey for fun, be creative and open minded, an then forward from one of their better or maybe even best academy left for austrian RB Salzburg where he is surprised that they push him to be creative and show them what he is capable of instead of being heavy structuralized.

By that I wanted to say that these countries should look at themselfs, ask what they really want and do what needs to be done to get there, even if it would cause some lost jobs of persons who appeared not be that good. But, except big statements, they dont look they both want to compete with best nations. I add czechs because there are some principal similiraties, not because Ithink they produce same quality players.

Just to add, I dont believe its all about Canada having more players, focusing only on hockey etc. It was like this everytime. Sincee somebody show me proper study that for exmaple our ceiling is on some level because of these aspects, I would change my mind. But thats probably not the case. Instead of it I see tons of ridiculous politics decision and attempts with no real basis or B plans.

 

[Atas2000]

Canada is super versatile. All their three BOB performances were different. Especially 2104 were they easily switched to lets say more defensive game was immpressive. Their players are much more complex than in 90s plus they are further in terms of system fot the leagues, development etc. When you look at any top canadian player they hardly miss anything and these euro advantages as technique, vison, passing are not there anymore because they have it all.

As to overcomming. You and also czechs are overcomming. But I guess its finnally time to say whether both want to overcome it and wheteher they do a lot and quality work to achieve it. We can not blame north america hockey for that.

I dont agree its all about battles of style. Different style will be always there but this is not the case since for exmaple definetely czech and for example russian roster except 1-2players can by replaced by canadian national team players.

All these teams should start to precisely searching for gaps in their system both structural and methodical and start to looking for a way how to win games, especially against Canada. We dont do that, czechs dont know how to win more games but you definetely dont know how to beat Canada despite you would be capable to do it imo. And I dont really know whetheter you have this target both in longterm or shortterm plan. Not even speaking abot czechs whose bosses are just counting some win percantages despite our U17 squad yesterday ended up with score 4:17 from three games against NA teams.

Te charm about that past times were that both czechs and russians had world top guys on benches and they try to be best or chase the best, or at least they did best possible. Thats not the case anymore. I guess its not coincidence that Russia is coached by latvian now and no one in Europe is interested in czech coaches.

Its admirable, that despite ton of national pride comments about how Canada is best hockey country in the world, some awared guys sat together in 1999 and retool its program to generate players and generation which we watching now. Compare to this, its quite low standart that russians have been talking about their Ds for several years and no systematic arrangement was still set up according to some posters here. Its even lower standart that czechs are not able to restructured their junior league despite its on the table for 8? years and its even worse when they have been talking for same period about letting kids play hockey for fun, be creative and open minded, an then forward from one of their better or maybe even best academy left for austrian RB Salzburg where he is surprised that they push him to be creative and show them what he is capable of instead of being heavy structuralized.

By that I wanted to say that these countries should look at themselfs, ask what they really want and do what needs to be done to get there, even if it would cause some lost jobs of persons who appeared not be that good. But, except big statements, they dont look they both want to compete with best nations. I add czechs because there are some principal similiraties, not because Ithink they produce same quality players.

Just to add, I dont believe its all about Canada having more players, focusing only on hockey etc. It was like this everytime. Sincee somebody show me proper study that for exmaple our ceiling is on some level because of these aspects, I would change my mind. But thats probably not the case. Instead of it I see tons of ridiculous politics decision and attempts with no real basis or B plans.

You need to check the facts first. You have no idea about so many things. Had a good chuckle over you calling Znarok a Latvian. You really need to learn more before you go such lengths creating theories about what's going on.

 

[Jablkon]

You need to check the facts first. You have no idea about so many things. Had a good chuckle over you calling Znarok a Latvian. You really need to learn more before you go such lengths creating theories about what's going on.

Well i know he is half russian/latvian. He is good but he is learning by doing guy. If you wanna catch me on some nationality then I probably waste my time to write anything. All is good in russian hockey then. Probably only russian posters are entitled to say whether you have good coaches or not. Dont know what is theory in my post. Must be nice to live in bubble that no one understand you and to your hockey.

 

[Atas2000]

Well i know he is half russian/latvian. He is good but he is learning by doing guy. If you wanna catch me on some nationality then I probably waste my time to write anything. All is good in russian hockey then. Probably only russian posters are entitled to say whether you have good coaches or not. Dont know what is theory in my post. Must be nice to live in bubble that no one understand you and to your hockey.

He is not half anything. He's a Russian from Chelyabinsk. He just moved to the Latvian SSR in 1983 as a player in tge USSR. That's all what's latvian about him. He btw only gained the latvian citizenship because they wanted him to play for Latvia. Otherwise Latvia was and is denying Russians who in some cases are born and raised in Latvia citizenship and obviously some civil rights with it.

So much for the facts you missed.

Otherwise you are welcome to elaborate about Znarok's coaching. It is just wrong to consider him a foreign coach.

And yes, obviously Russians would know more about russian hockey, just like Czechs about theirs. I always put effort into reading what people ftom the respective country have to say about what's going on in their leagues and organizations, because I obviously lack the perspective.

 

[Jablkon]

Understand but right now you can easily follow almost everything. Especially when we talking about KHL and north american hockey. Under that terms I dont follow SHL, NLA and finnish league. I dont even follow KHL that much but I think I was always able to recognize russian style and as a witness of many battles between czechs and r ussians I am or I was able to recognize your weaknesses and strenghtens. Take my points as observation. I dont really see big persons on both benches, that for sure does not mean those who are there are useless. Just both programs used to be more elite in all terms. Coaches, persons, everything. And when they adapted something, you always found big rationale behind it. It all made sense even for ordinary fan. That is the thing I dont see right now in CZ hockey and according to posters here, Its maybe similar in some aspects in russian hockey.

 

[MaxV]

Whatever, if Latvia wants to claim Znarok, they can have him.

He is better off coaching a team like that anyway, gather a bunch of blue collar guys and turn the game into anti-hockey.

This is why guys like Andronov, Lyubimov, Kalinin and especially Telegin prosper under him.

He isn't a good fit with Russia, he doesn't know how to utilize skill. He turned Ovechkin into Oleg Kvasha at World Cup.

I know the comeback to this post will be that he is winning with SKA, but come on, I can win behind SKA's bench.

 

[Fantomas]

Changing coaches will not make a lick of difference for Russia. I mean it is nice to have a coach whom players respect and who is a solid tactician and motivator.

But none of it matters when you have a blueline that gets abused because it is inferior. We still do not develop enough good defensemen, even though I am seeing some improvements.

 

[Fantomas]

And seeing Zaitsev on a projected top pairing is seriously depressing. Nothing respectable about that.

I am hoping for a serious breakout for Tryamkin in the next couple of years. I think he could be special if the pieces come together.

 

[Atas2000]

Whatever, if Latvia wants to claim Znarok, they can have him.

He is better off coaching a team like that anyway, gather a bunch of blue collar guys and turn the game into anti-hockey.

This is why guys like Andronov, Lyubimov, Kalinin and especially Telegin prosper under him.

He isn't a good fit with Russia, he doesn't know how to utilize skill. He turned Ovechkin into Oleg Kvasha at World Cup.

I know the comeback to this post will be that he is winning with SKA, but come on, I can win behind SKA's bench.

He is a learner. Not a fast one. For that he lacks the intellect.

His 4th line of Telegin - Andronov - x was good actually. Doesn't mean we need one.

Doesn't dismiss the argument about star players though. He has no idea how to implement the star power of a russian top roster.

To stay on topic he has very strange concepts about defence. His rosters and pairings are often idiotic. Khafizullin and Zubarev will hit the ice tonight at EHT as exhibit A for that.

 

[Atas2000]

And seeing Zaitsev on a projected top pairing is seriously depressing. Nothing respectable about that.

I am hoping for a serious breakout for Tryamkin in the next couple of years. I think he could be special if the pieces come together.

It depends on who is projecting. I'd have Zaytsev with Orlov as 3rd pairing at the max.

It is obvious that Provorov and Sergachev are quickly storming into the picture as our top D-men.