Team Russia defense in two years

[Atas2000]

Alright, live in your fantasy world.

 

[Riddum]

Just another narrative.

Give Russia Team Canada's coaching staff and they at least medal in the last 2 Olympics.

They certainly didn't get embarrassed like that because they didn't have the talent to go strength for strength with Canada.

There were plenty of mistakes made on the coaching side. For example in 2010, treating Ovi like a second class citizen, when he was clearly the best player in the world.

In 2014, putting Ovi and Malkin on the same line, when they clearly didn't mesh well. In both Olympics, they also misused Ovi on the PP.

 

[Fantomas]

Finally becoming respectable?

Nikita Zaitsev (TML) - Ivan Provorov (PHI)

Slava Voynov (KHL) - Mikhail Sergachev (TBL)

Nikita Tryamkin (KHL) - Dmitry Orlov (WSH)

Dmitry Kulikov (WPG) - Nikita Zadorov (COL)

Subtract Orlov, Kulikov and Zadorov. Add Gavrikov and Rykov.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Provorov and Sergachev are potential #1D caliber defensemen which Russia has been lacking of many years. I dont think that after Gonchar or Zubov there have been any true elite Dman for Russia. Markov maybe, fringe true elite.

Orlov and Zaitsev are very good #3D or potentially even #2D.

That is pretty good top-4. Potentially.

Malakhov was a #1 D in his prime for a good few years. Mironov for a while too.

 

[MaxV]

Malakhov was a #1 D in his prime for a good few years. Mironov for a while too.

That's in the 90s, they had awesome talent during that generation. Unfortunately those guys had big egos and a lot of them wouldn't accept invitations to the NT.

Russia was producing both quality and quantity up to the 1987-born generation. That's the generation that entered youth program during the downfall of Russian economy, which impacted the hockey program. I started a thread about it awhile back:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/russian-players-1987-1990-born-generation.2227433/

The 1987-born to 1990-born generation (between Malkin and Tarasenko) is dragging the country's talent level down.

I don't know if they reach the Soviet talent level, but it certainly looks like things are looking up.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

That's in the 90s, they had awesome talent during that generation. Unfortunately those guys had big egos and a lot of them wouldn't accept invitations to the NT.

Russia was producing both quality and quantity up to the 1987-born generation. That's the generation that entered youth program during the downfall of Russian economy, which impacted the hockey program. I started a thread about it awhile back:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/russian-players-1987-1990-born-generation.2227433/

The 1987-born to 1990-born generation (between Malkin and Tarasenko) is dragging the country's talent level down.

I don't know if they reach the Soviet talent level, but it certainly looks like things are looking up.

I think the fault lies with the Russian coaching staff. I remember the 96 World Cup, when they treated the players like sh!te for their entire training camp in Russia (midnight wake ups, making them train in sweaty two day old gear, etc).

The morons in charge of the Russian NT didn't know that NHL players were going to come to the next Olympics. No wonder guys like Zubov, Mogilny, Khabibulin said "no thanks" from that moment on. Truth is, those WC96 NT coaches likely robbed Russia of a gold medal in Nagano.

 

[Atas2000]

Give Russia Team Canada's coaching staff and they at least medal in the last 2 Olympics.

With canadain coaches that team would fall flat on the face, because Canadians have no idea about russian hockey. Trying to make those players play canadian style hockey is idiotic. That's what I think.

For example in 2010, treating Ovi like a second class citizen, when he was clearly the best player in the world.

Who told you that? Another north american journalist?

In 2014, putting Ovi and Malkin on the same line, when they clearly didn't mesh well. In both Olympics, they also misused Ovi on the PP.

And you do know no other coach wouldn'make those mistakes? I see them do it all the time. Guys ike Babacock ren't mistake prone either.

Also fixing those ouldn't have solved all the problems. There were many more. The most important one still being having not enough adequate defencemen making the team unbalanced as hell.

 

[Atas2000]

I think the fault lies with the Russian coaching staff. I remember the 96 World Cup, when they treated the players like sh!te for their entire training camp in Russia (midnight wake ups, making them train in sweaty two day old gear, etc).

The morons in charge of the Russian NT didn't know that NHL players were going to come to the next Olympics. No wonder guys like Zubov, Mogilny, Khabibulin said "no thanks" from that moment on. Truth is, those WC96 NT coaches likely robbed Russia of a gold medal in Nagano.

Oh joy! Some more narratives coming form some "investigatve journalism".

 

[Atas2000]

Subtract Orlov, Kulikov and Zadorov. Add Gavrikov and Rykov.

Orlov is still better than both. Especially in a 3rd pairing role. Zadorov too , while he developed into a DD mold for whatever reason. I think it's a psyche thing. His personal stance.

Rykov is still extremely raw to put him up there, Gavrikov is somewhere around 10 on the depth chart and I doubt he will climb.

 

[Fantomas]

Orlov is still better than both. Especially in a 3rd pairing role. Zadorov too , while he developed into a DD mold for whatever reason. I think it's a psyche thing. His personal stance.

Rykov is still extremely raw to put him up there, Gavrikov is somewhere around 10 on the depth chart and I doubt he will climb.

We're projecting.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Oh joy! Some more narratives coming form some "investigatve journalism".

Alright, why in your opinion did half the Russian NT decline the Nagano Olympics, while every other country experienced no such problems?

 

[Atas2000]

We're projecting.

Yes, but only projecting 2 years. I doubt Rykov will make such a big jump in 2 years, while I certainly see the potential further.

 

[Atas2000]

Alright, why in your opinion did half the Russian NT decline the Nagano Olympics, while every other country experienced no such problems?

Because un the 90s not only the whole hockey system was in total disarray, but the country(we also do know who to thank for it btw). Coaching was the least of the problems. A big, big chunk of blame goes to the players too. They felt like they are the STARS who now owe nothing the country that made them the stars. They felt entitled. Not all of them obviously, mostly exactly the guys who declined and will wear this stain forever. Some players at that point felt like they are bigger than the country and the fans that wanted to see them play and expected some courting and treatment they never deserved. On the other side the 90s spewed out the worst in the hockey federation on top. Their attempts to make money out of their position, their plotting and squabbling behind the scenes also alienated some players, no question(they should have played for their country regardless). The coaching staff in this constellation was the most powerless link in the chain. The players felt like they are the bosses now, the bosses felt like they can manipulate everybody and squeeze out something for themselves, the coaches had to work in that disastrous amosphere with the players they had, under pressure from some corrupt idiots above and some divas on the roster that felt like they can tell coaches what to do.

 

[Zine]

Alright, why in your opinion did half the Russian NT decline the Nagano Olympics, while every other country experienced no such problems?

Because un the 90s not only the whole hockey system was in total disarray, but the country(we also do know who to thank for it btw). Coaching was the least of the problems. A big, big chunk of blame goes to the players too. They felt like they are the STARS who now owe nothing the country that made them the stars. They felt entitled. Not all of them obviously, mostly exactly the guys who declined and will wear this stain forever. Some players at that point felt like they are bigger than the country and the fans that wanted to see them play and expected some curting and treatment they never deserved. On the other side the 90s spewed out the worst in the hockey federation on top. Their attempts to make money out of their position, their plotting and squabbling behund the scenes also alienated some players, no question(they should have played for their country regardless). The coaching staff in this constellation was the most powerless link in the chain. The players felt like they are the bosses now, the bosses felt like they can manipulate everybody and squeeze out something for themselves, the coaches had to work in that disastrous amosphere with the players they had, under pressure from some corrupt idiots above and some divas on the roster that felt like they can tell coaches waht to do.

Yea, I’d chalk up all those declines of the 1990s to players disliking the federation more so than any coaching staff. Plus, anything resembling patriotism was completely unfashionable back then.

 

[Zine]

With canadain coaches that team would fall flat on the face, because Canadians have no idea about russian hockey. Trying to make those players play canadian style hockey is idiotic. That's what I think.



Who told you that? Another north american journalist?



And you do know no other coach wouldn'make those mistakes? I see them do it all the time. Guys ike Babacock ren't mistake prone either.

Also fixing those ouldn't have solved all the problems. There were many more. The most important one still being having not enough adequate defencemen making the team unbalanced as hell.

The biggest issue we had in 2014 was Bilyaletdinov and his inability (or unwillingness) to make any adjustments.
His strategy of “this is our gameplan and if it isn’t working we’ll stick with it till it does” was our undoing.

 

[MaxV]

It will probably take more then a couple of years to fully rebuild this unit. It is relying strictly on players 25 and younger.

Still, this unit looks MUCH stronger then the one Russia brought to the World Cup. The fact that Russia wouldn't need to rely on players of Nesterov and Marchenko caliber should be celebrated.

 

[Riddum]

With canadain coaches that team would fall flat on the face, because Canadians have no idea about russian hockey. Trying to make those players play canadian style hockey is idiotic. That's what I think.

You can't be serious with this post. But hey, I guess Mike Keenan is Russian. Sorry, Mikhail Kanadin.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Yea, I’d chalk up all those declines of the 1990s to players disliking the federation more so than any coaching staff.

I guess the two (federation + coaches) are somewhat intertwined. Coaches mistreat the players at the WCOH, players hold a grudge against the federation and skip Olympics. Obviously there are more factorS involved as per Atas' post, but this seems to have played a big role.

 

[Atas2000]

You can't be serious with this post. But hey, I guess Mike Keenan is Russian. Sorry, Mikhail Kanadin.

Well, some people just love their cherry picking, eh?

You know those russian coaches you blame for the russian NT underpeforming won 7 of those Cups combined, do you?

Keenan had a roster most coaches wouldn't fail with and if you actually followed the KHL you'd also know what his coaching of this team was like.

This is all very serious. Russia has to rely on it's strenghts and can't try to emulate foreign concepts. That would diminish our chances not improve them.

 

[Atas2000]

I guess the two (federation + coaches) are somewhat intertwined. Coaches mistreat the players at the WCOH, players hold a grudge against the federation and skip Olympics. Obviously there are more factorS involved as per Atas' post, but this seems to have played a big role.

Coaches mistreated players? Do you have a credible source?

Well maybe some divas of that era thought that coaches giving them directions was "mistreating".

 

[Atas2000]

The biggest issue we had in 2014 was Bilyaletdinov and his inability (or unwillingness) to make any adjustments.
His strategy of “this is our gameplan and if it isn’t working we’ll stick with it till it does” was our undoing.

Looks like you just wanted to air some Bill-hate. You reply to a post about canadian coaches in general and jump to 2014 and Bill somehow. Why? Are we talking about 2014 now? Butwhatabout BiZ and their inability to adjust and being completely lost behind the bench? Butwhatabout Znarok's inability to adjust?

Your analysis of Billyaletdinov's failure is simplified and dumb. There were many more factors to it, but you just dismiss them to celebrate your disliking popular with some people and stick with simple slogans that you always hear from that camp.

 

[MaxV]

Atas, I love Bilya as a coach, honestly, but his ideas just don't work with Russian NT players. He is very defensive minded.

He would make an excellent choice for a team like Norway or Germany. A team full of blue collar guys who Bilya would just get to close down all zones and work off counter-attacks.

 

[Riddum]

Well, some people just love their cherry picking, eh?

You know those russian coaches you blame for the russian NT underpeforming won 7 of those Cups combined, do you?

Keenan had a roster most coaches wouldn't fail with and if you actually followed the KHL you'd also know what his coaching of this team was like.

It's not cherry picking. It's merely pointing out how wrong you are. You act as if they're playing another sport than Hockey. By your logic, North American coach wouldn't know how to use Russian players in the NHL.

 

[Jablkon]

Well, some people just love their cherry picking, eh?

You know those russian coaches you blame for the russian NT underpeforming won 7 of those Cups combined, do you?

Keenan had a roster most coaches wouldn't fail with and if you actually followed the KHL you'd also know what his coaching of this team was like.

This is all very serious. Russia has to rely on it's strenghts and can't try to emulate foreign concepts. That would diminish our chances not improve them.

I dont understand under what basis you presume that canadian coaches would make Russia play canadian style. They would be more organized or follow system but this was needed anyway. I am not saying that Russia needs foreign coach but its not like canadian coaches are dumb, its the biggest hockey braintrust by far right now.

 

[Hint1k]

Problem is much deeper than just a one bad coach. Since devastation of Soviet Union, the hockey in Russia has not made any progress. We are still on the same level as it was 26 years ago, if not worse. Our naturally talented hockey players we have is not a product of the system, they are simply exclusions of the rule.